[aaf evo]

Everyone has different purchase criteria. I’ll always be sound first, but something can sound mind blowing…but if the fit is bad it’s useless to me. I also won’t like spending X amount of dollars on something if I feel the build is cheap.

 

[Liberatus]

I have resin-shelled IEMs that are 7 years old and still hold up perfectly fine, so I think cracking "simply because of age" would be an exaggeration. But, I think all of this really boils down to a matter of perspective. I agree with @Liberatus's points that it's healthy for the market to want more and demand more for your money. It's why I tend to be fairly harsh on brands for their packaging and build quality - their higher-end offerings, especially - if it isn't up to snuff. The last thing I'd want is for companies to feel comfortable compromising and giving consumers the bare minimum. But, at the same time, there's your perspective where maybe the consumer doesn't want those extra bells-and-whistles.

Personally, what's most important to me is that we all enjoy the purchases we make and feel happy about them, but I think that can (and should) be done without letting their shortcomings slide. It wasn't too long ago that I basically yelled at Eletech to better the packaging for their Iliad (which 100% of its buyers, to my knowledge, had no issues with), and they did just that with their new Aeneid. So, I think it's good for the consumer to be vocal and not just defend the brands' decisions all the time. Critique can range from valid to unrealistic, and so can credit. Most of the brands I've talked to even welcome it, so they know where to improve. On the other hand, though, it's also dependent on what the consumer values and cares about. So, it's still very much subjective at the end of the day. But, I do feel it's important to have that balance; hover around it, at least.


The thing about the processes you described, though, is that every reputable IEM brand can pretty much do that. Of course, there are varying degrees of quality, but being able to make resin shells is pretty much a given in this industry; the bare minimum I'm describing above. What @Liberatus is talking about with his definition of artisan is going above-and-beyond what everyone else can do, because you're also charging above-and-beyond what everyone else is. The common consensus is that the Trailli is the best-sounding IEM on the market, so it ticks that box there. It ticks the cable box too with the 4-wire 1960s. But, again, just like it is when handing out critique, I think it's important to be realistic when giving credit as well.

Perfect rounding out to my points. Thank you very much!

Yes not all will crack just with age and some do resin better then others but it isn't an uncommon problem.

I've said my piece and i think it has come across well enough to be understood and Deezel has given great addition to sum it.

Everyone does have their own desires and use cases, and i make no judgements to anyone who purchased it, i would love to own one if the sound is what's said, lucky to those of you who have it because it does fit your desires, i am unlucky in that it was made in a way that doesn't fill my durability concerns and looks mass produced for high price. So I'm still waiting for my gem IEM while others of you have found it! Beautiful haha.

Just always be mindful of value and remember you do have a voice, and you also have a sort of vote with what you buy, don't just give it up because you are "okay with it" i say this generally to all meaningful purchases in life.

 

[mvvRAZ]

I mean, I personally agree with Liberatus fundamentally, and I’ve shared that many times before

that being said, considering how much I’ve spent and what I’ve spent it on in this industry, the only conclusion I’ve reached is you should buy whatever makes you happy - the little toys have literally no value other than that. There’s no universal recipes or recommendations, or good crap or bad crap - it’s all a bunch of random overpriced toys that we’re hooked on

 

[bluestorm1992]

Perfect rounding out to my points. Thank you very much!

Yes not all will crack just with age and some do resin better then others but it isn't an uncommon problem.

I've said my piece and i think it has come across well enough to be understood and Deezel has given great addition to sum it.

Everyone does have their own desires and use cases, and i make no judgements to anyone who purchased it, i would love to own one if the sound is what's said, lucky to those of you who have it because it does fit your desires, i am unlucky in that it was made in a way that doesn't fill my durability concerns and looks mass produced for high price. So I'm still waiting for my gem IEM while others of you have found it! Beautiful haha.

Just always be mindful of value and remember you do have a voice, and you also have a sort of vote with what you buy, don't just give it up because you are "okay with it" i say this generally to all meaningful purchases in life.

You should try to voice the need to Noble…look at their thread, it is mostly their official rep making posts. Their EST implementation is not so ideal (or some would say very bad?), and their products are losing both attention and value in the market.

I lost so much money from buying and selling Sultan; the value and demand is just not there. If you want to keep your Sultan than that’s great, if you want to resell it then good luck..

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Perfect rounding out to my points. Thank you very much!

Yes not all will crack just with age and some do resin better then others but it isn't an uncommon problem.

I've said my piece and i think it has come across well enough to be understood and Deezel has given great addition to sum it.

Everyone does have their own desires and use cases, and i make no judgements to anyone who purchased it, i would love to own one if the sound is what's said, lucky to those of you who have it because it does fit your desires, i am unlucky in that it was made in a way that doesn't fill my durability concerns and looks mass produced for high price. So I'm still waiting for my gem IEM while others of you have found it! Beautiful haha.

Just always be mindful of value and remember you do have a voice, and you also have a sort of vote with what you buy, don't just give it up because you are "okay with it" i say this generally to all meaningful purchases in life.

You keep coming back to the idea that we somehow are not exercising our voice in the market. That's what you are missing. We just don't care about the durability issue as much as you do. In fact, if Oriolus focused on that as the key criteria for building it, many of us wouldn't buy it. You are clearly not in the target market for the Traillii. Those who are don't have your criteria in the top 10 features of why they are buying it.

 

[Tanalasta]

Tuning alone isn't a lasting factor unfortunately. More and more mass production will make "tuning" not a valid only point. Check Blon. How can they do that sound that cheap? Because materials is very cheap, and when you mass produce you're going to run across odds that you hit on a really good tuning. A spray and pray will still return a result eventually especially when more & more robotics remove human factor and automatic tuning processes can be output much quicker.

In no way do i see "artisan" in the Oriolus. I see the opposite, i see tuning only, if it was artisan then the shell, the tuning, the cable, the packaging, the customer support, etc. All of these have to be unique and particular for it to be artisan. That's why you go to an artisan, because they create "art" which isn't replicatable by others because it's the art that person/brand puts out that makes them distinct.

But even that isn't vastly important to me, what's most important is just durability, and i do not agree with any of the high prices IEMs being acrylic or resin or plastic. It just shouldn't be, if other companies can factor in a hardshell into their pricing, then how can you not? Why would you not? It's an extra budget saver but then you charge $6k, so there's not much of an excuse. There's room for a durable shell. And those who don't care about the shell, fine, but i say your resin will crack over time just purely with age. And you paid $6k for a product that has a short lifespan. Even beyond just age cracking, you have to always be super careful and mindful and limit their use - this means you're paying a high price for a product that has limited viability and use, it's "portability" is limited to very enclosed & protective environments. So you bought less available use, for a higher price. Sure maybe you baby gear and don't care about using it more then sitting at home, but i say products should just be built to last, especially if you charge high end pricing. Durability is honorable, caring about the lifespan of your product and that your customers will be able to use your product without fault for a long lifespan. We as westerners have lost the care for durability for cheapness, but now we pay artisan prices for low end durability too. Which is interesting.

Maybe you do baby your gear, but would it be great if you could feel more comfortable that your $6k investment was protected? I think you're arguing from the wrong perspective, for the price you paid you can certainly have durability included, so instead of saying you're fine without it, which means you'll never get it, you should want it as a customer. Why not feel better knowing your gear will last and you don't have to be crazy protective. Also - to me - IEMs are MEANT for portability. Staying at home, isolated, barely moving about or using them - doesn't sound very portable to me.

What’s durable about BA IEM’s. No matter their construction they’re not meant to be knocked around. Medical grade UV cured resin allows for a light, comfortable, biocompatible and ergonomic shell. I don’t desire heavy wanky metals or wood. If anything, that would detract me from a purchase.

There has never been a correlation between cost and durability. The more expensive something is, often the higher the maintenance and less durable it actually is. Silk clothing, a pen made of “precious resin”, Hermes leather to name a few.

They’re plenty portable. I travel with mine in their case. However, if you’re the type to wrap your IEM’s around your DAP and shove them in a backpack or pocket unprotected then frankly, you’re in the wrong thread

 

[Tanalasta]

Interesting perspective. My Traillii comes with me places, so it's used in a portable fashion without issue.

I'd like to look into photopolymer and how it ages in more detail. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, have any sources of information on this?

Medical grade photopolymer is typically hard, heavy duty and plenty durable. It should not crack. However, not being privy to the exact material composition I don’t think we can do much but loosely speculate and generalise.

the one year warranty is short.

citing Andrew from Musicteck “Traillii is a popular iem, but Oriolus can only make 20-30 units monthly”. I wouldn’t call that mass produced. Fitting the number of drivers into a shell doesn’t sound easy and I suspect at least some of that assembly done by hand

 

[tawmizzzz]

citing Andrew from Musicteck “Traillii is a popular iem, but Oriolus can only make 20-30 units monthly”. I wouldn’t call that mass produced. Fitting the number of drivers into a shell doesn’t sound easy and I suspect at least some of that assembly done by hand

What do you mean? All they have to do is shove some yesterday-news drivers into a cheap plastic shell. Should be easy to replicate!

/sar

 

[bluestorm1992]

UM has made a very interesting video regarding how the FS is made.

To me it is not something super straightforward to do. And, there are lots of equipments involved.



Note also that all these are just the manufacturing process. The R&D process, marketing, and the associated cost from human capital is also non-negelectable.

 

[SlydZ]

UM has made a very interesting video regarding how the FS is made.

To me it is not something super straightforward to do. And, there are lots of equipments involved.



Note also that all these are just the manufacturing process. The R&D process, marketing, and the associated cost from human capital is also non-negelectable.

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting, but 360p in 2021? Manufacturing process of a 6000 USD IEM recorded with a potato

 

[Deezel177]

UM has made a very interesting video regarding how the FS is made.

To me it is not something super straightforward to do. And, there are lots of equipments involved.



Note also that all these are just the manufacturing process. The R&D process, marketing, and the associated cost from human capital is also non-negelectable.

If you wanna check out more videos like that, these are the ones several other brands have made; some more in-depth and more up-to-date than others:

1964 Ears (now 64 Audio), 2013:



Ultimate Sound, 2016:



Vision Ears, 2017:

http://headflux.de/so-entsteht-ein-custom-inear-ein-besuch-bei-vision-ears-in-koeln/​

Ultimate Ears, 2017:



JH Audio, 2018:



JH Audio, 2018

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnpPhdSBri0/​

JH Audio, 2019:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5G0pE2qkKm/​

Westone, 2019:



Empire Ears, 2020:



If you specifically wanna see JH Audio do what UM are doing, but with a custom IEM, I'd recommend you check out the 2019 Instagram link. Personally, what I'm taking away is this makes JH offering CNC-milled, custom IEM shells for free with their $1799 Jolene's all the more impressive. But, ultimately, it's a great reminder that these tiny things we often take for granted take a village to make, and that infinitely adds to the beauty behind them.

 

[KickAssChewGum]

I have resin-shelled IEMs that are 7 years old and still hold up perfectly fine, so I think cracking "simply because of age" would be an exaggeration. But, I think all of this really boils down to a matter of perspective. I agree with @Liberatus's points that it's healthy for the market to want more and demand more for your money. It's why I tend to be fairly harsh on brands for their packaging and build quality - their higher-end offerings, especially - if it isn't up to snuff. The last thing I'd want is for companies to feel comfortable compromising and giving consumers the bare minimum. But, at the same time, there's your perspective where maybe the consumer doesn't want those extra bells-and-whistles.

Personally, what's most important to me is that we all enjoy the purchases we make and feel happy about them, but I think that can (and should) be done without letting their shortcomings slide. It wasn't too long ago that I basically yelled at Eletech to better the packaging for their Iliad (which 100% of its buyers, to my knowledge, had no issues with), and they did just that with their new Aeneid. So, I think it's good for the consumer to be vocal and not just defend the brands' decisions all the time. Critique can range from valid to unrealistic, and so can credit. Most of the brands I've talked to even welcome it, so they know where to improve. On the other hand, though, it's also dependent on what the consumer values and cares about. So, it's still very much subjective at the end of the day. But, I do feel it's important to have that balance; hover around it, at least.


The thing about the processes you described, though, is that every reputable IEM brand can pretty much do that. Of course, there are varying degrees of quality, but being able to make resin shells is pretty much a given in this industry; the bare minimum I'm describing above. What @Liberatus is talking about with his definition of artisan is going above-and-beyond what everyone else can do, because you're also charging above-and-beyond what everyone else is. The common consensus is that the Trailli is the best-sounding IEM on the market, so it ticks that box there. It ticks the cable box too with the 4-wire 1960s. But, again, just like it is when handing out critique, I think it's important to be realistic when giving credit as well.

Very well said!

 

[rantng]

No one buys a Lamborghini/Ferrari/McLaren/Pagani/Koenigsegg/Bugatti just because it's fast. If it were made with off-the-shelf, mass produced components, instead of carbon fiber/titanium/composite/exotic materials it wouldn't be a supercar/hypercar commanding the prices it does. Then again, there is this -

 

[toaster]

I'm feeling bad for the Traillii and the stick its getting for having plastic shells…

It continues that virtually the only negativity towards the traillii comes from people who have yet to hear or hold it.

I own erlky, which is made of near-solid silver. Traillii doesn’t feel quite as solid as that, but vs virtually all my other totl iems I’ve owned (A18t, lxse, k10, thum, fourte, currently demoing the similarly-priced $6k FS…) the traillii has truly top-notch build quality that rivals or beats virtually anything else I’ve experienced except for the erlky. and then there’s the bird’s sound…

not sure what people get from hating on things they know nothing about. they’re just depriving themselves from experiencing awesome stuff.

Don’t we all love awesome stuff?

 

[Redcarmoose]

You never read of an owner knocking the traillii build quality.

It continues that virtually the only negativity towards the traillii comes from people who have yet to hear or hold it.

I own erlky, which is made of near-solid silver. Traillii doesn’t feel quite as solid as that, but vs virtually all my other totl iems I’ve owned (A18t, lxse, k10, thum, fourte, currently demoing the similarly-priced $6k FS…) the traillii has truly top-notch build quality that rivals or beats virtually anything else I’ve experienced except for the erlky. and then there’s the bird’s sound…

not sure what people get from hating on things they know nothing about. they’re just depriving themselves from experiencing awesome stuff.

Don’t we all love awesome stuff?