[bluestorm1992]

I don't know, for me, if the R8 didn't drive both my IEMs (Fourte and LX) superbly, I'd send it back. It's inexcusable for a flagship DAP not to be able to drive even the most picky IEM, in my opinion. To spend that much money on a DAP only to discard half its functionality? Rather use my phone (or a basic DAP) and a C9 if that's the case.

I suspect it's a matter of flavour, as are so many things at this level. If you have an R8 (or even an LP6, which has less power than an R8 but still more than enough for any IEM) and are hearing improvements with the C9, then I'd wager it's more about the flavour of the C9, and its flexibility (with tubes for example) than needing more power. Same with the BX2, but that's total overkill for IEMs IMO.

I was not expecting a big improvement either when pairing C9 with TOTL DAPs, but I need to be honest with my own experience. Of course, YMMV, but I think the impressions from C9 users so far should give people enough confidence (and curiosity) to try out a demo unit or try it in a future audio event.

 

[aaf evo]

I don't know, for me, if the R8 didn't drive both my IEMs (Fourte and LX) superbly, I'd send it back. It's inexcusable for a flagship DAP not to be able to drive even the most picky IEM, in my opinion.

I got rid of the R8 for the opposite reason-ish... the noise floor on it is quite poor with sensitive IEMs. At $1900 I personally think that’s inexcusable.

 

[mvvRAZ]

In my own experience, some TOTL DAPs do not have enough power/good enough amp capability to drive certain IEMs. That was my complaint for LPGT back in the days. I upgraded from LP6K to it hoping to better drive my IER-Z1R and LCD-i4. The LPGT did perform better than 6K, but not to a satisfactory level to my ears.

We have seen users of SP2000 and R8 report a significant improvement in driving IEMs when paired with C9. Maybe the P6 Pro could be sufficient for any IEM, or it can still further benefit from a better Amp portion. I will let the actual owners draw the conclusion, or wait until I get an audition unit so that I can talk about it.

For one, between the SP2000, P6, R8 and other similar DAPs with heavyweight specs and amps, it 100% is a synergy thing and not an insufficient power thing. If a mainstream IEM needs some 2W and higher @32 ohms that’s just straight up poor design (IMHO). oBravo Ra comes to mind, but even that is pretty well driven by a SP2000

I personally suspect that the improvement he’s noticing is either down to synergy (the SP2000 is pretty bright), or down to intangibles improving because the C9 is really well designed yadda yadda

if it were a simple power thing, get a BX2 and you’ll have sufficient power for most planars as well as every single IEM on the planet haha. IEMs are generally pretty easy to drive, and DAPs nowadays are hella powerful, where the majority of them have significantly more Ws than the Hugo 2

 

[KuroKitsu]

In my own experience, some TOTL DAPs do not have enough power/good enough amp capability to drive certain IEMs.

There 2 problems I have with this line of thought:

1. If the price I'm paying for a ToTL DAP doesn't have enough power to properly drive any iem, that brand is on going on my blacklist. There is no reason for it not to, certainly not for the price tag for some of these things and implies either willful or unwilful omission.

2. An iem is suppose to be portable, requiring a chain equivalent to a couple bricks to properly drive it defeats the purpose, you might as well make them headphones. Following the concept of portability, the benchmark for an iem is that a DAP can drive it properly, with the capability to scale up with source as a plus.

I don't know, for me, if the R8 didn't drive both my IEMs (Fourte and LX) superbly, I'd send it back. It's inexcusable for a flagship DAP not to be able to drive even the most picky IEM, in my opinion. To spend that much money on a DAP only to discard half its functionality? Rather use my phone (or a basic DAP) and a C9 if that's the case.

I suspect it's a matter of flavour, as are so many things at this level. If you have an R8 (or even an LP6, which has less power than an R8 but still more than enough for any IEM) and are hearing improvements with the C9, then I'd wager it's more about the flavour of the C9, and its flexibility (with tubes for example) than needing more power. Same with the BX2, but that's total overkill for IEMs IMO.

Amen to that. The biggest factor I've notice people describing is flavor and synergy in the chain, not power. But there seems to be an inexplicable association with power that always comes up. Sure my DAP might not have enough power to properly drive headphones, but an iem? Surely they jest....

 

[bluestorm1992]

For one, between the SP2000, P6, R8 and other similar DAPs with heavyweight specs and amps, it 100% is a synergy thing and not an insufficient power thing. If a mainstream IEM needs some 2W and higher @32 ohms that’s just straight up poor design (IMHO). oBravo Ra comes to mind, but even that is pretty well driven by a SP2000

I personally suspect that the improvement he’s noticing is either down to synergy (the SP2000 is pretty bright), or down to intangibles improving because the C9 is really well designed yadda yadda

if it were a simple power thing, get a BX2 and you’ll have sufficient power for most planars as well as every single IEM on the planet haha. IEMs are generally pretty easy to drive, and DAPs nowadays are hella powerful, where the majority of them have significantly more Ws than the Hugo 2

Speaking of Hugo 2, I would agree that power is less important in driving IEMs compared to synergy or the sound signature of the DAP.

As you have mentioned, Hugo 2 is just such an excellent source device that pairs really well with so many IEMs. If we check out its pure specs like output power, however, it is not as impressive as some TOTL DAPs, but it just works. My own experience of C9 is kind of similar. I can find out many reasons that it should not lead to an improvement in driving IEMs when I look at the specs of the DAPs and requirements of the IEM, but C9 is just able to do the trick to me...

Sometimes when we say it is all about synergy, it will make it sound like something so specific. Hence, when Hugo 2 can give excellent performance for such a wide range of devices, I think it will be a bit weird to say that it has good synergy with so many items - it is just a better source device. I now have a similar experience in C9.

Because I have the pleasure to own both Hugo 2 and C9, along with a collection of IEMs, I can compare them side by side and I tend to conclude that both are excellent in driving IEMs, just the signatures are different.

 

[bluestorm1992]

I think what I tend to conclude from my own experience is that, when I say a DAP is not “driving an IEM very well”, there is more things going on other than pure power. The majority of modern DAPs have way enough power to drive most of the IEMs. You can now easily find a mid-tier DAP that has enough power for IER-Z1R by looking at the specs, but still people find the performance gap between mid-tier and TOTL DAPs quite noticeable.

 

[KuroKitsu]

I think what I tend to conclude from my own experience is that, when I say a DAP is not “driving an IEM very well”, there is more things going on other than pure power. The majority of modern DAPs have way enough power to drive most of the IEMs. You can now easily find a mid-tier DAP that has enough power for IER-Z1R by looking at the specs, but still people find the performance gap between mid-tier and TOTL DAPs quite noticeable.

People seem to have difficulty saying they're putting money into expensive gear for intangibles. Nothing wrong with that imo, still better than insisting someone is wrong and they need more power in their setup.

 

[bluestorm1992]

People seem to have difficulty saying they're putting money into expensive gear for intangibles. Nothing wrong with that imo, still better than insisting someone is wrong and they need more power in their setup.

Very true... In writing my review, I tend not to say that what C9 helps is purely for output power, especially when pairing with IEMs. The best I can say that it is a dedicated amp so there are natural benefit from this: Independent power supply leading to a better noise floor, a potentially better circuit design and components used in the amp, more functionalities like the tube mode, and so on. Many (or most) of these benefits are not necessarily related to the power of the output, yet they are crucial to determine the quality of the sound coming out from the amp.

 

[Vitaly2017]

LoL me listening to noirs out of my sp2k and throwing popcorn into air then catching it in na mouth and crunch crunch

The fighting going on, on whos amp is better then yours lol is very amusing


You guys want to understand what amp is in a dap? Hook your iem into a quality desktop amp and hear it your self your dap has no chance!

The C9 + dap is not desktop but heck its the best you can have in the portable.

And I agree if done right it will scale up the quality folks.
But also be aware it will alter the sound by 5%

 

[Damz87]

LoL me listening to noirs out of my sp2k and throwing popcorn into air then catching it in na mouth and crunch crunch

The fighting going on, on whos amp is better then yours lol is very amusing


You guys want to understand what amp is in a dap? Hook your iem into a quality desktop amp and hear it your self your dap has no chance!

The C9 + dap is not desktop but heck its the best you can have in the portable.

And I agree if done right it will scale up the quality folks.
But also be aware it will alter the sound by 5%

I thought you sold your Noir?!

 

[KuroKitsu]

LoL me listening to noirs out of my sp2k and throwing popcorn into air then catching it in na mouth and crunch crunch

The fighting going on, on whos amp is better then yours lol is very amusing


You guys want to understand what amp is in a dap? Hook your iem into a quality desktop amp and hear it your self your dap has no chance!

The C9 + dap is not desktop but heck its the best you can have in the portable.

And I agree if done right it will scale up the quality folks.
But also be aware it will alter the sound by 5%

It's nice to hear how your gear scales with better sources. But not a necessity, I find stuff like the SP2k more a luxury than anything else. If my modded iPod click didn't have noise through the jack when reading from disk, I probably be rocking that and having $1500 more in my account for other things.

I thought you sold your Noir?!

Maybe he bought another? Understanding Vitaly is a doctorate in itself

 

[Vitaly2017]

I thought you sold your Noir?!

Mysteries and ufo's are roaming around!
Soon the world will be unvaled the thruth!
Tia MYSTIOS will be undisclosed.

Thanks to my buyer he let me 2 weeks more to enjoy my last fun with my noirs

It's nice to hear how your gear scales with better sources. But not a necessity, I find stuff like the SP2k more a luxury than anything else. If my modded iPod click didn't have noise through the jack when reading from disk, I probably be rocking that and having $1500 more in my account for other things.


Maybe he bought another? Understanding Vitaly is a doctorate in itself

@riverground said you will be present next time we meet up,
Someone's ass gonna be beeten up full of claws sctraches
And truck tires marks all over you

 

[RTodd]

Mysteries and ufo's are roaming around!
Soon the world will be unvaled the thruth!
Tia MYSTIOS will be undisclosed.

Thanks to my buyer he let me 2 weeks more to enjoy my last fun with my noirs






@riverground said you will be present next time we meet up,
Someone's ass gonna be beeten up full of claws sctraches
And truck tires marks all over you

Just let him take his IEMs off first.

 

[normie610]

But also be aware it will alter the sound by 5%

wow, how did you arrive with that 5% sound alteration number? Any specific method you did when testing the C9?

 

[Ryokan]

wow, how did you arrive with that 5% sound alteration number? Any specific method you did when testing the C9?

Hey it's Vitaly, you need to ask?