Orthodynamic Roundup

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsma /img/forum/go_quote.gif my only experience with crackling from bass (ie tight seal) wound up being solved by making the drivers more solidly fixed into the baffle. ie, check and make sure its not your driver just being not secured enough, driver + baffle should be harder to pull apart from one another than the sword in the stone.

It's not the sound of driver not sealed to baffle, it's the sound of diaphragm being pushed by air, just like my SR-007 or Lambda when I get tight seal. I guess this one has loose diaphragm plus I get tight seal due to old worn pads. They have lost of bass and good HF in stock form, something other YH-100 did not have.

I also spoke with the guy who sold them to me and he said he liked this pair better than his other one and his YH-1000, go figure

 

[No_One411]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not the sound of driver not sealed to baffle, it's the sound of diaphragm being pushed by air, just like my SR-007 or Lambda when I get tight seal. I guess this one has loose diaphragm plus I get tight seal due to old worn pads. They have lost of bass and good HF in stock form, something other YH-100 did not have. I also spoke with the guy who sold them to me and he said he liked this pair better than his other one and his YH-1000, go figure

aww...I assume he wouldn't sell you his YH-1000?

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif <snip> Most entireity of the inside of the rear of the earcup is filled with dynamat. Grille clot over the whole lot, and the bore of the insert and the magnetism of the driver hold the grille down over the driver. This is the extent of the damping. There is no damping at the front.

Ok, I would like to just make sure I understand. From the top pic with the dynamat surrounding the SFI, you did NOT add a second layer over the SFI driver. You only added a layer of speaker grill cloth and the mesh grill from the original DR50s, correct?

And as fsma asked, how does the bass of those SFI fosterphones compare to HP-50s/HP-3/YH-3s that you have auditioned and were the Yamaha phones bass heavy or bass light? I have bass heavy Yh-3s (with the crinkle in both ears when they're put on or moved) and I'll be dampening them to Ludo's standard bass heavy scheme shortly so I'd like a baseline of what to shoot for with my attempt at an open back SFI headphone in a custom cup to hang from a Grado headband or my Kenwood headband.

Thanks for the picks and explanation to date too.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by No_One411 /img/forum/go_quote.gif aww...I assume he wouldn't sell you his YH-1000?

His YH-1000 had an unfortunate accident and are now broken.

 

[Duggeh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsma /img/forum/go_quote.gif You didnt comment on whether they can stand up to the bass monsters that closed cup design produces.

I never worked an SFI into a closed cup design. I've never yet met a closed headphone that I got on very well with so it was never going to happen. It's also a dreadful idea to work on getting sick mad bass to the detriment of the rest of the sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsma /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh, and duggeh, guaranteed, if you use right channel contact on the 3.5mm for signal and left channel contact for return on your balanced xlr cable, you will notice an improvement in sound quality. small contact point for signal and huge one for return == unbalanced signal transfer.

That sounds like complete bumchutney to me, the difference in size is negligable and is completely irrelivent given the other contact points involved anyway.


Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilermakerFan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok, I would like to just make sure I understand. From the top pic with the dynamat surrounding the SFI, you did NOT add a second layer over the SFI driver. You only added a layer of speaker grill cloth and the mesh grill from the original DR50s, correct?

Correct. Originally there was various arrangments of electrical tape. Theres also less of the covering fabric from the back of the driver than there is when the drivers are new because removing the tape tore it off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilermakerFan /img/forum/go_quote.gif And as fsma asked, how does the bass of those SFI fosterphones compare to HP-50s/HP-3/YH-3s that you have auditioned and were the Yamaha phones bass heavy or bass light?

I haven't heard the HP-3 or the YH-3 (unless you allude to identical drivers). And it has been a significant length of time since I owned the HP-50a, and I didn't own it for much more than a few weeks. It would be inadvisable for me to offer any kind of signifiant comment in reply to your question.

Quote:

I have bass heavy Yh-3s (with the crinkle in both ears when they're put on or moved) and I'll be dampening them to Ludo's standard bass heavy scheme shortly so I'd like a baseline of what to shoot for with my attempt at an open back SFI headphone in a custom cup to hang from a Grado headband or my Kenwood headband.

I can't help you here either. I don't know the YH-3. What I can say to you by way of SFI advice is seal the earcup. Seal it, and then seal it some more, use a design that puts pressure around the ears (a Grado headband is going to be most inadvisable for this), it not need be to HD280 crusher levels, but have it there. Then add 10%, get that pad-head interface sealed. Then after youve done that. Go over it all again and find where theres any air connection and seal it.

I'm entirely satisfied with the bass performance of the Orthodome #4, and I find the K1000 unsatisfactory in this regard. It's as comfortable with t.A.T.u as it is with Soriah or the THX disc. Proper, planar bass with lots of getting the note right and none of the whammy slap wobble of most moving-coils. If you want impact whack and slam that makes your earlobes wobble, don't follow this design. If you want extension, tonal accuracy and the avoidance of "closed-in" sound which is an inevitable consequence of damping the **** out of the drivers, give it a try.

My aim in this project was to build an ortho which did its best to break the standard rules (it had to be circumnaural, it had to have an accurate headstage and a spacious but not inflated soundstage, it had to have bass extension and presence, and it had to avoid holes in the frequency response or that awful non-shimmering but fatiguing treble you get with some damping solutions).

I've succeeded, I think. Prolonged listening over the next weeks (I have less time than I'd like at the minute with university ending soon and the work piled up in my "In" tray) will lead to firmer conclusions. I'd be happy to tour them out once I've moved back home.


Amplification solution employed makes a difference. I can't run these happily out of the BT switch headphone socket, or much more happily from the headphone output on my NAD amp. It has to be direct to the speaker taps for me. Odd that because while it's hardly the last word in performance, its most satisfactory from the headphone output of an ipod touch.

-edit-

I'm looking forward to trying them from my new power amp, once I get it finished. Moar powa!

-edit-

I've done the closed thing (or at least, an approximation of it) by sealing the borehole in the wood with the pad of my hands. I can see what you mean by this bassy SFI headphone. The bass isn't changing though, its just creating a huge HF rolloff. Sounds bassier at first certainly, but then you notice that all the decay on cymbal strokes is missing and that everything has gone all claustraphobic, like the guitar is being played in a small room with duvets on the walls (listening to Guitars by Mike Oldfield). Its that sound that all closed headphones I've owned have had in some measure and I greatly dislike it.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I never worked an SFI into a closed cup design. I've never yet met a closed headphone that I got on very well with so it was never going to happen. It's also a dreadful idea to work on getting sick mad bass to the detriment of the rest of the sound. That sounds like complete bumchutney to me, the difference in size is negligable and is completely irrelivent given the other contact points involved anyway. Correct. Originally there was various arrangments of electrical tape. Theres also less of the covering fabric from the back of the driver than there is when the drivers are new because removing the tape tore it off. I haven't heard the HP-3 or the YH-3 (unless you allude to identical drivers). And it has been a significant length of time since I owned the HP-50a, and I didn't own it for much more than a few weeks. It would be inadvisable for me to offer any kind of signifiant comment in reply to your question. I can't help you here either. I don't know the YH-3. What I can say to you by way of SFI advice is seal the earcup. Seal it, and then seal it some more, use a design that puts pressure around the ears (a Grado headband is going to be most inadvisable for this), it not need be to HD280 crusher levels, but have it there. Then add 10%, get that pad-head interface sealed. Then after youve done that. Go over it all again and find where theres any air connection and seal it. I'm entirely satisfied with the bass performance of the Orthodome #4, and I find the K1000 unsatisfactory in this regard. It's as comfortable with t.A.T.u as it is with Soriah or the THX disc. Proper, planar bass with lots of getting the note right and none of the whammy slap wobble of most moving-coils. If you want impact whack and slam that makes your earlobes wobble, don't follow this design. If you want extension, tonal accuracy and the avoidance of "closed-in" sound which is an inevitable consequence of damping the **** out of the drivers, give it a try. My aim in this project was to build an ortho which did its best to break the standard rules (it had to be circumnaural, it had to have an accurate headstage and a spacious but not inflated soundstage, it had to have bass extension and presence, and it had to avoid holes in the frequency response or that awful non-shimmering but fatiguing treble you get with some damping solutions). I've succeeded, I think. Prolonged listening over the next weeks (I have less time than I'd like at the minute with university ending soon and the work piled up in my "In" tray) will lead to firmer conclusions. I'd be happy to tour them out once I've moved back home. Amplification solution employed makes a difference. I can't run these happily out of the BT switch headphone socket, or much more happily from the headphone output on my NAD amp. It has to be direct to the speaker taps for me. Odd that because while it's hardly the last word in performance, its most satisfactory from the headphone output of an ipod touch. -edit- I'm looking forward to trying them from my new power amp, once I get it finished. Moar powa!

Thanks man! I thought you had had more listening time with a few of the other smaller Yamahas. I appreciate your advice on the eadband and clamping too. I do plan to use leather ESw9 or O2 pads for a much better seal, and I'll probably end up making my own headband in a similar fashion to Grados for simplicity sake, but I'll use wider and thicker steel for more clamping.

Thanks again!

 

[Duggeh]

Go with the O2 pads. They're excellent and certainly what I'd work with if I were building an orthro (Freudian slip there before) from scratch rather than into an existing chassis. They're also circumnaural. Which is always better! I'm working with Stax parts for the AMT project too, although the Lambda pads are the more appropriate ones there (sigma pads are too small).

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Eric, can you check your Maior and tell me if it has embossed writing on the cups or not please? I'll then update my post.

Yes, the maior has raised lettering on the cups.

 

[Rick]

Duggeh: you appear to have misinterpreted me, the "bass monsters" I speak of do not by any means detriment the rest of the frequency spectrum. Generally flat response all throughout, they just are notably detailed in lower frequencies where any open cup desigbed have failed to produce, and right down to 20hz at that.

And actually the size of ther contact does make a difference, have you not heard of eichmann bullets? Regardless, balanced is supposed to be symmetrical currents supply and return, hence why such a thing would be an improvement.

 

[Duggeh]

Ah well, you've got apples to oranges in calling up the Eichmann Bullets, a Cinch cable isn't the same as a signal cable and theres other issues with RCA because of the live connection being longer and making electrical contact first. Minor issues compared to having a good cable in the first place imo. I'm also not running a balanced amp. I use 4pin XLR because its a better connector than TRS as I run all my headphones from a speaker amp.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsma /img/forum/go_quote.gif And actually the size of ther contact does make a difference, have you not heard of eichmann bullets? Regardless, balanced is supposed to be symmetrical currents supply and return, hence why such a thing would be an improvement.

Your concepts of the relative importance of these things is vastly out of whack. For signals under about 1mhz anyway.

 

[Rick]

hardly, I thought he was running balanced. I know first hand that every little detail can make all the difference, and I had no idea he was not using a quality cable to begin with. was just a tidbit of advice based on personal experiences

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjarnetv /img/forum/go_quote.gif i was thinking of removing the stock pad on the T30, but i figured sliding in a foam donut would be enough to stop it from acting like a reverse reflex disc. in my experience removing the supra pad competely only leads to more issues than it fixes, at least with the hp50 and SFI driver.

Thanks for the tip

. It pretty much works, I woulnt have thought about it like that.

 

[iQEM]

who's the one that put HP2 on listing with so high ? and T10 with U$ 90 as opening bid ? OMG...

 

[Rick]

Probably because fostex does not ship to most countries so its not possible to acquire otherwise.