[Sambones]

Thanks for the answers, Waulta. About the LCD-2, it's good to see that the high-end headphone makers are getting away from the "space-age" look and back to some of the aesthetics that have proven timeless.

 

[frank2908]

hi, i'm building a headphone using SFI drivers, I read that normal way of damping is a thin dense felt, then a thicker less dense felt. i found 1.5mm and 4mm thick wool felt. would using 1 layer of 4mm felt do (its quite dense i guess), instead of using different felts ?

 

[ujamerstand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... Does that help?

Yes. Thanks for an explanation.

So to make sure my understanding is correct, the small driver of the SFI means that it is unable to produce a lot of bass because it is unable to move a lot of air. To solve this problem a reflective plane can be added to the back. But backwave cancellation occurs. Cancellation can be reduced by Delaying the backwave and making the audio wave "out of phase". (This part I'm not sure about) Thus, taking advantage of that, by summing of the "out of phase" backwave information and the "frontwave", (is that how you describe it?) you can produce bass for a small driver like SFI. A larger driver like the one in HP-1 has no such problem because the driver is large enough/diaphragm loose enough. Is that making sense?

The LCD-2 makes me regret purchasing the wooden HE-5 even more now.

Actually no, they are the best 'phone in my collection right now. I just regret that I might have gotten a better one. Oh well, I made a promise to myself never to spend over $500 on a single headphone ever again. Maybe someone in Toronto is willing to share?

 

[smeggy]

I am so getting a set of audeze, even if it kills me. I think the look is awesome.

 

[antonyfirst]

I will be dying to read your comparison.

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am so getting a set of audeze, even if it kills me. I think the look is awesome.

WIN!

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will be dying to read your comparison.

Oh Tony, Im dying to hear YOUR comparison when you get the LCD2

 

[smeggy]

yeah, I think for my personal aesthetic, these are ideal. I'll need to replace the screws with black socket heads and do something seax with the headband but yeh.. awesomez

 

[sachu]

I know I will buy one too

It just is such a cool headphone. Flush mounted screws would have been great, but yeah socket head screws would be the best solution. I don't know about those pads..they look a bit hard.

 

[Sambones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ujamerstand /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cancellation can be reduced by Delaying the backwave and making the audio wave "out of phase". (This part I'm not sure about) Thus, taking advantage of that, by summing of the "out of phase" backwave information and the "frontwave", (is that how you describe it?) you can produce bass for a small driver like SFI. A larger driver like the one in HP-1 has no such problem because the driver is large enough/diaphragm loose enough. Is that making sense?

The backwave is exactly the same amplitude and wavelength as the primary wave, only it's exactly its inverse. Now, sound consists of vibrations, and two exactly opposite vibrations will nullify each other. This is especially problematic for the bass on dipoles, as the wavelength at 20hz is 22m, or in terms of time at the speed of 340m/s, that's 65 ms. Now, the closer you can get to that amount of delay in the backwave, the deeper the bass will be. Instead of just attenuation of bass, you will then start to get reinforcement of lower frequencies, as the vibrations actually align themselves, increasing the power. Of course, I don't know how much people like Smeggy are actually delaying it, but that's how you get pronounced low-bass out of planars.

Unfortunately, unless you also attenuate the bass, you'll also get a combing effect, as some frequencies are canceled out, and some are reinforced.

Mind you, this is all theoretical, as I myself am only starting on this, but that's my understanding of it.

Helpful?

 

[ujamerstand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sambones /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... Helpful?

Yes.

That's what I'm thinking. But I didn't have the numbers and the correct terms to describe it. So that really helps. Thanks!

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ujamerstand ...So to make sure my understanding is correct, the small driver of the SFI means that it is unable to produce a lot of bass because it is unable to move a lot of air.

It's able to move enough air to produce bass because its diaphragm isn't constrained in the middle-- it can "dome" up and move a good bit of air, as long as you treat this air pressure as precious and conserve every last bit of it while not making the driver try to move too many molecules, ie, you keep the volume enclosed by the earcup to a minimum, as in the Pro 30, Stax SR-X, Stax SR-30, Audio-Technica ATH-7, etc, which all represent a good compromise between an airtight seal on the ear (tough to do with a supra-aural pad of a reasonable size without inducing pain-- but see also the T20v2) and bass.

Remember, people are getting what they claim is real bass (and I have no reason to doubt them) from a 35mm square driver, which is only 8% larger than the SFI.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ujamerstand To solve this problem a reflective plane can be added to the back.

At this point we're in danger of combining two techniques which are separate. The mfrs found that the reflective plane added to the treble output, which was otherwise disappointingly weak.

In a ported speaker, you try to utilize the woofer's backwave by inverting its phase and adding it to the frontwave, but in the typical ortho, we're basically throwing away the backwave, using some of it to produce antiphase seasoning which helps the sound escape our skulls. Real world, we're not able to delay the backwave enough to produce a full phase inversion, so we can't really use it to augment the frontwave (except, as Sambones says, at certain discrete frequencies and even then, not very much) but at least we can keep it from eating the frontwave's bass.

Awhile back, I facetiously suggested using flexible tubing to lead the backwave down from your ears to your shoes and releasing it there. Call it the Bass Drain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ujamerstand Thus, by summing of the "out of phase" backwave information and the "frontwave", you can produce bass for a small driver like SFI.

The backwave is already maximally out of phase, remember, so we tweak it to be not-so-out-of-phase. That way, combining the front and back isn't quite so bass-deadly as it would otherwise certainly be. Even the YHD Yamahas, which use a driver not unlike the SFI, can produce bass without pads or anything more than a vestigial cup. Even so, Yamaha had to cheat (by underdamping the bass) to get the bass level up, so there's bass, just not very good bass.

Your SFI transplant had bass trouble at first because there was the headphone equivalent of a car's vacuum leak. The leak was bigger than the "magic size" hole Smeggy established by experiment; ergo, your bass was wasted, man. Now that you've sealed that leak, you should have bass if your pads are reasonably flat like the ones on the Pro 30 and company, and if the backwave has to wind its way through an acoustic delay line (damped vent or SmeggiPort) on its way to the atmosphere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ujamerstand I just regret that I might have gotten a better one. Oh well, I made a promise to myself never to spend over $500 on a single headphone ever again.

The regret you feel is ever the regret of the headphone addict chasing the state of the art. It is one of the outer circles of hell.
Promising yourself a limit of $500 is a pretty good promise.


Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am so getting a set of audeze, even if it kills me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will be dying to read your comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh Tony, Im dying to hear YOUR comparison when you get the LCD2..

All dying! and them so young! These, then, must be KILLER headphones, arrr.

 

[smeggy]

Headphones, it's all death and destruction. Well, in here anyway

 

[iQEM]

new picts had been added, enjoy...
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6588672-post14101.html

 

[sachu]

^^ very cool.. that looks like a grand time..so any impressions? Which ortho won more appreciative nods?

 

[iQEM]

*updated !
 
My rank for all ortho's that available on indonesia:
1. HE-5 LE balanced
2. Wharfedale ID1/Sansui SS100/Yamaha HP1000
3. Hifiman HE5
4. Fostex T10/Yamaha YHD3/Yamaha YHD-2/Yamaha YHE-50A
5. Yamaha YH100/Fostex T20v2/Fostex T20RP MK-II
6. Yamaha HP1/YH1
7. Yamaha YH-2
8. Realistic Pro30
9. Yamaha HP3/Yamaha YH3/Yamaha HP50A
10. Eagle H4300
11. ATH1
12. Sansui SS L-55
13. ATH-2/VectorScan VSH5

available ortho branded cans on indonesia:

1. Audeze LCD-2
2. Hifiman HE5 LE
3. Hifiman HE5

1. Sansui SS100

1. Fostex T10

1. Fostex T20RP a.k.a T20v2

1. Fostex T20RP MK-II

1. Yamaha YHD3

1. Yamaha YHE50A

1. Yamaha YH100
2. Yamaha YH1000
3. Yamaha HP1000

1. Yamaha HP1

1. Yamaha YH1

1. Yamaha YH2

1. Yamaha HP3 & YH3

1. Yamaha HP50A

1. ATH 1

1. ATH 2 & VectorScan VSH5

1. Sansui SS L-55

1. Realistic Pro30

1. Eagle H4300

mini Impression of mine...

HP1000 - stock form
Everything sound just right, either amped or direct from my ipod...
It's has super huge & rich body, the deep bass are clean (thick vibrating feeling allover my spine), good warm midrange on the face and even if HP1k got no sparkling high like HE5 but it's not a roll-off treble though, and not dark at all...now i believe that YHD3 are 95% of HP1k, but YHD3 feel more airy/open due to the fully open cup...
I highly recommend this japan King Yammy for vocal lover, vocal are warm, lusty but without any sibilance or peak...I prefer this cans over HE5 because it's very smooth, warm+thick body and without any peak detected, on the other hand HE5 known with several peak on high & midrange...even it's a lil' bassy for me (in positive term) it's feel just right...flat enough for me, not too bright or dark...i think HP1k are same level or even more superior to any Lambda series, incl. SR404 LE+KGSS...well, i know it would be more fair to test A/Bing before claim those statement, but to be honest this cans able to make me shaking from the first time listening to it...

...taken from e'mail conversation with Kabeer...

SS100 - stock form
i love it at the first sight...lol
not as troublesome as ID1 to drive thought, even more open...the sounds just bright enough for me, and airy...i would never said this cans a bassy light, it has huge thick rich body...there's a lil peaks on the high freq range, but still acceptable...the headstage are awesome...aggresive as Fostex ussually do, that's why i love it...

ID1 - stock form
even still under amp, i try to describe as fair as possible...
sparkling high, huge thick body...not as airy as SS100 but not warm or dark to me...headstage a lil 3D, too bad there's still distort on the low notes when paired with SSMH...

T10 - modded
small in size but bigger sounding version of my T20v2, very solid headstage, nice midrange and aggresive as SS100, neutral just like ID1, not to open or airy, great treble but not too sparkling as ID1 or bright as SS100...the bass are deep, but not bass heavy...

will add more impression later...