[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dBel84 /img/forum/go_quote.gif if you do read this thread , big old mosfet receivers are FOTM

Har! Over the last 5 years I think I've talked 2 people into trying this flavor of the month, and, though I think they appreciate what they got for their money, their enthusiasm is, shall we say, well damped.

We compared the Kyocera R-851 (bone stock, built in 1985) to the fancy amps at the local meet recently, and though it didn't sound as good, you could tell it was heading in the same direction as the new amps, plus it came with extra toys: phono stage (MM and MC), preamp (volume, EQ, filters, mono/stereo, balance) and enough power to drive difficult speakers. Plus it has that cool Freon heat pipe cooler for the outputs. But if you want any 25-year-old audio gear to sound the way it was supposed to sound, judicious replacement of certain old parts, usually capacitors, is necessary.

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dBel84 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Travagan's Red taste any good? sounds like it should.

Yes, it's got a better sounding name than Yellow Tail, which sounds like a hamster disease.

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dBel84 /img/forum/go_quote.gif - grab the HP3 , the small driver Yamaha's have some of the best magic

Agreed. Just be aware that there's a lot of production variation with the 3. Some are bassy, some are nearly flat.

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jp_zer0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Something like this? :|D

Well, the Marantz 2216 doesn't have MOSFET outputs, but it's not a bad receiver. If you can get it cheap, why not. But note that its tone controls (EQ to us) are rudimentary and not very flexible... and that it is what it is, a decent mid-'70s transistor amp with a tuner and preamp, with a sound that doesn't transcend its time.

If you want to stick a toe in to test the waters, I found a simple CMoy sounded very nice with the modded YH-100-- which is certainly not the most efficient headphone ever produced-- and gave it a good kick in the bass when I added some boost. You can work your way up from there if you decide you like what you hear. Total expenditure so far, including refurb 2GB Sansa Clip: $60 or so, ballpark. Assuming you can indeed get the HP-3 for a song, or the price of a CD.

 

[dBel84]

actually if I stumbled across a Yam B2 or MF A1, amongst others, I would take the plunge and reterminate all my HPs with 4 pin mini xlr ( I will most likely do this anyway )

..dB

 

[smeggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dBel84 /img/forum/go_quote.gif actually if I stumbled across a Yam B2 or MF A1, amongst others, I would take the plunge and reterminate all my HPs with 4 pin mini xlr ( I will most likely do this anyway ) ..dB

So how badly do you want this B2?

 

[dBel84]

Now why didn't I know you had a B2? ..dB

 

[sachu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dBel84 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now why didn't I know you had a B2? ..dB

that just looks gnarly...me want!!

 

[wualta]

It IS gnarly! verily!

Smeggy, out with it-- have you had a B-2 all this time and were holding back?

I should point out to those of you who might begin to think about getting yesterday's state-of-the-art audio gear for pennies on the dollar that there are pitfalls. Blow the outputs on a B-2, for example, and you have an expensive bootjack, since the VFETs it used have been out of production for decades. I've already mentioned the capacitor situation.

There were two streams of '70s transistor sound: The power FET amps, which appeared in 1974 with the Sony and Yamaha VFETs and handed off around '78 to Hitachi's MOSFETs ...   ...and then there was everything else. Perhaps I should mention Fujitsu's ring-emitter bipolar power transistor, used in Mitsubishi amps.

A VFET amp will make you want to turn your tweeters up. A regular transistor amp from that era will usually make you want to turn them down. That's the difference in a nutshell.

But the VFET amps tend to be rare, pricey and old-- they went out of production well before the decade of the '70s was out. MOSFET amps and receivers were made and sold by the [comparative] zillion and can be had for reasonable prices (less than $100 shipped via online auction). Still, if a VFET amp shows up and you can swing the cost plus the extra $ to put it in first-class shape, grab it. You'll own one of the last amps using transistors designed exclusively for audio (not to say audiophile) duty. MOSFET is almost as good and costs much less, and continues to be used today, though the number of audio (linear, as opposed to switching) MOSFETs seems to be on the dwindle.
 
UPDATE: there's one exception to this: Nelson Pass recently (2009) discovered a small Mississippi semiconductor fab making power FETs from silicon carbide (!), not for audio but for power management in electric cars and solar farms (!!) but which just happened to have the prized triode characteristic the VFETs had 35 years ago. Pass calls his amp the J2. Only one problem: it costs $4,000.

Then there are Panasonic's now out-of-production digital amplifiers built into cheezy looking receivers. A canny (heh) ortho-headphone person can get a lot of bang for the buck shopping for speaker amps of modest power, and the Pans put out about 35 to 50 "real" watts per channel, with 6 or 7 channels. Dang good, as long as you're using digital sources.

Anyway, enough of the Cheapskate Audio proselytizing. On with the Pants of Thunder and the Getting Of The HP-3.

 
YAMAHA B-2 VFET AMP
 

SONY TA-8550 VFET AMP

 

[smeggy]

No I do not have a B2

 

[lecky]

Talking of old amps - Kabeer got a Cyrus One I think after hearing mine - Kabeer, how does yours compare to the amp you've been using (CKK?)? Are you happy with it? Does it deliver what you wanted from it?

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecky /img/forum/go_quote.gif Talking of old amps - Kabeer got a Cyrus One I think after hearing mine - Kabeer, how does yours compare to the amp you've been using (CKK?)? Are you happy with it? Does it deliver what you wanted from it?

Hiya Lecky,
Yup I got a Cyrus1 late production, and I am using orthos directly from the speaker outs (no resistor network).
The amp I was using previously was a CTH. The CTH was very good, and can drive dynamic cans with aplomb, and orthos decently as well.

The speaker amp just had a lot more power to it when hooked up with orthos, I felt more "control", smaller details etc (i think maybe not ideal for dynamics though)
It's likely a TOP end headphone amp might be more ideal, but those cost a bomb (or you need to be a DIY genius). So for the purposes of driving orthos I am quite happy with my setup at the moment.

When i'm in a lazy mood, the YH-1000, Aiwa & NAD (in stock damping) still have enough sensitivity to run straight out of my iPhone (albiet its not ideal, its nice to have this ability)

 

[lecky]

Glad you're enjoying the Cyrus.

I just got a message from iheadphones saying that (although they've taken my money) they don't stock t50s any more and won't. I hope they refund money as quickly as they take it.

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecky /img/forum/go_quote.gif Glad you're enjoying the Cyrus. I just got a message from iheadphones saying that (although they've taken my money) they don't stock t50s any more and won't. I hope they refund money as quickly as they take it.

Try and find a used set from USA, it will likely be cheaper...

 

[lecky]

I'll keep an eye open...

 

[Marc E]

Hi all.
A couple of weeks ago i was lucky enough to listen to three sets of Kabeer's orthodynamic headphones, Yamaha HP-3 and YH-1000, and Aiwa HP-500. These are the first orthos i've ever heard and as suggested i'd like to give you my impressions of them.

I only listened to them for a couple of minutes each as a direct comparison to my cardas cabled Sennheiser HD600s, but it was enough for me to form an opinion of them. Source was FLAC files into my Aune DAC though Kabeer's Cavalli CTH (which i now own).

Suprisingly I found all three sets to be noticably more natural sounding and effortless in their presentation than my HD600s (which i'd considered to be the most natural sounding out of all the headphones i've heard), and were not obviously lacking against the HD600s in any way i could hear, which suprised me. I was expecting some drawbacks from an old design that never caught on but they didn't materialise.
Specifically i found the HP-3s to have a very polite nature and to be well balanced tonally, what i would call a very neutral sound but without sounding dull. Simply better than my HD600s.
I found the Aiwa HP-500 to have a slightly fuller and warmer sound then the HP-3s, but with a little resonance in the upper bass which was slightly off-putting, may even have been due to the pads but i'm fairly sure my ears would adjust after a little while with them so i wouldn't expect this to be a long term problem.
The YH-1000s were back to the neutral sound of the HP-3s but were fuller and airier, and had more life than the HP-3s, but i also detected a slight resonance in the lower mids, something only noticable when listening critically, the music is simply to enthralling to be bothered by this in use.

What this exercise showed me was that orthodynamics are a step further towards the live sound i chase than my HD600s, and i suspected at them time i wouldn't be buying another set of dynamic headphones. Since then i've put my money where my mouth is and this morning i was lucky enough to take delivery of a pair of unmolested HP-3s.
Thanks Kabeer for introducing me to the wonderful world of orthos!

From memory they don't sound the same as Kabeer's, which i believe are modded, but right now i'm enjoying them to much to be critical and think about how the sound could be improved, and i'm going to make the most of that enjoyment while it lasts!
It's also occured to me that although i'm all for technical advancement i'm just about to listen to 200 year old music on a 30 year old turntable, on a set of 30 year old headphones through a tube.
I'm not as modern as i thought...

I was planning to read through this thread to get some idea of how to make the most of these headphones, especially the use of a power amp to drive the headphones as mentioned above, but over 900 pages this could take me a while! Can anyone sum up what i need to know or point me towards key sections in this thread please? Thanks in advance

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's likely a TOP end headphone amp might be more ideal, but those cost a bomb (or you need to be a DIY genius).

Unfortunately, I did the math on my SE F5. Just in parts, I have over $600 in a single ended version. Most of that cost is in 47,000uF caps (six per PS) to get the noise and ripple low enough for headphone use. Heat sinks big enough added $60 or so. 500VA iron from SumR is $135 for shielded and potted, but I'll probably drop it to just a banded toroid and shield it myself to save $20-$30. I'm not building the second one for balanced speaker operation until I hear the SE as there have been some builders reporting anemic bass on the standard build. I'm hoping the revised PS will let it take care of the bass better.

Don, check your email, I may have an option on the B2 for you.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc E /img/forum/go_quote.gif A couple of weeks ago i was lucky enough to listen to three sets of Kabeer's orthodynamic headphones, Yamaha HP-3 and YH-1000, and Aiwa HP-500. ...this morning i was lucky enough to take delivery of a pair of unmolested HP-3s. From memory they don't sound the same as Kabeer's, which i believe are modded, but right now i'm enjoying them... I was planning to read through this thread to get some idea of how to make the most of these headphones, especially the use of a power amp to drive the headphones as mentioned above, but over 900 pages this could take me a while! Can anyone sum up what i need to know or point me towards key sections in this thread please? Thanks in advance

The problem of the '70s ortho 'phones is pretty much summed up in the first few pages of the thread. They had the potential to sound like electrostats, but they were underdamped, and if you press a layer of felt tightly against the back of the driver, you'll flatten out the response curve and tighten the bass.

In the process you'll lose some efficiency. Back in the day, no one dreamed headphones would be as efficient as they are today; the audio gear of the time was engineered to drive the inefficient headphones of the time, so a modern speaker amp of modest but high-quality output is called for, or high-end vintage gear. Some modern portable amps have the grunt to drive a modded ortho, but surprisingly few.