[Jimster480]

They are beautifully made and have excellent isolation and very low distrotion. The frequency response is very flat and to be honest I found them a bit boring.

What have you compared them to?
I just got a pair of Denon AH-MM400's and I know they aren't planar but they have a warm yet soft sound.

 

[WallofHooligans]

I always kind of wonder how people stumble into this thread without ever hearing an ortho, or being interested in vintage headphones already. Like if you've already got your hands on the modern equivalent, I imagine that very few people are going to want to pick up the vint equivalent.... Rule 1 of Orthodynamics IMO is that the sound signature you're looking for probably already exists in another modern equivalent, or has to be teased out with mods. If you're not going in to it expecting to mod or dabble in modding, I don't see the point of starting here. That said, I think that planar magnetics have a really specific sound to them, a flat, low distortion response and generally a somewhat intimate soundstage with very detailed timbre. You can take an orthodynamic or planar magnetic driver and seriously tune it exactly to your tastes, because of how well the driver moves air, and how heavily the driver responds to differences in chassis.

As to the mentions of "how the yamahas sound," There's going to be a good amount of differentiation there, especially in the yh-3/hp-3 department. As I've heard, the lowest tier stuff had a high variability in driver quality, which is why they remain the cheapest to pick up. You might end up with something truly special, or just worth the price you paid for it. They are still a good deal, if you don't mind the looks.
I like my hp-1, unmodified they sound flat though edging toward dark more than bright, and have a roll-off towards the high notes. It's a smooth and enjoyable sort of flatness, though not everyone's cup of tea. The pair I modified with fiberglass tube insulation and dynamat sounds punchy and fun.

I do hate that prices are being driven up to such a ridiculous degree. The vintage versions should be seen as do it yourself projects, or used for learning/budget/collection purposes. Driving price for the sake of driving price just hurts everyone. I can't imagine the original t50 driver being worth more than an equivalently built Hifiman of similar design. There are examples of cans that are more like works of art than anything else, and I understand that sort of collectible pricing. Best example of that is the technics eah-830 and Sansui ss-100.

If I'm to be brutally honest about the money aspect though, I think that people shouldn't discuss worth here. And actually, since the forums changed at head-fi and less traffic goes through these old threads, the prices have started to fall in vintage across the board. I think that's great. Let people discover interesting things again without paying an arm and a leg for a piece of equipment that is probably 10 years older than the user themselves.

 

[93EXCivic]

What have you compared them to?
I just got a pair of Denon AH-MM400's and I know they aren't planar but they have a warm yet soft sound.

I listened to them back to back with Meze 99 Classics, Shure SRH-1840, Sennheiser HD600 and Beyerdynamic T70Ps. I have never heard those Denons. The HD600s where my favorite of the those by a long way.

Of the closed headphones, the Meze were the most "fun" (kind of a U shaped headphone which is not my personal taste), the Beyerdynamics were the most comfortable and probably my favorites (I found them to be fairly analytical but not so much as to be boring) and the Oppos were the most analytical, most portable and best built. The Shures were my least favorite of those four (found the bass too much and the mids too recessed)

 

[nick n]

There may be impressions of the PM3 vs the Denon in the dedicated PM3 thread.

 

[Jimster480]

I always kind of wonder how people stumble into this thread without ever hearing an ortho, or being interested in vintage headphones already. Like if you've already got your hands on the modern equivalent, I imagine that very few people are going to want to pick up the vint equivalent.... Rule 1 of Orthodynamics IMO is that the sound signature you're looking for probably already exists in another modern equivalent, or has to be teased out with mods. If you're not going in to it expecting to mod or dabble in modding, I don't see the point of starting here. That said, I think that planar magnetics have a really specific sound to them, a flat, low distortion response and generally a somewhat intimate soundstage with very detailed timbre. You can take an orthodynamic or planar magnetic driver and seriously tune it exactly to your tastes, because of how well the driver moves air, and how heavily the driver responds to differences in chassis.

As to the mentions of "how the yamahas sound," There's going to be a good amount of differentiation there, especially in the yh-3/hp-3 department. As I've heard, the lowest tier stuff had a high variability in driver quality, which is why they remain the cheapest to pick up. You might end up with something truly special, or just worth the price you paid for it. They are still a good deal, if you don't mind the looks.
I like my hp-1, unmodified they sound flat though edging toward dark more than bright, and have a roll-off towards the high notes. It's a smooth and enjoyable sort of flatness, though not everyone's cup of tea. The pair I modified with fiberglass tube insulation and dynamat sounds punchy and fun.

I do hate that prices are being driven up to such a ridiculous degree. The vintage versions should be seen as do it yourself projects, or used for learning/budget/collection purposes. Driving price for the sake of driving price just hurts everyone. I can't imagine the original t50 driver being worth more than an equivalently built Hifiman of similar design. There are examples of cans that are more like works of art than anything else, and I understand that sort of collectible pricing. Best example of that is the technics eah-830 and Sansui ss-100.

If I'm to be brutally honest about the money aspect though, I think that people shouldn't discuss worth here. And actually, since the forums changed at head-fi and less traffic goes through these old threads, the prices have started to fall in vintage across the board. I think that's great. Let people discover interesting things again without paying an arm and a leg for a piece of equipment that is probably 10 years older than the user themselves.

I found this thread on the front page of the full size headphones forum section

But I have been looking at PM-3's for a while when I started researching different headphone technologies

 

[Jimster480]

There may be impressions of the PM3 vs the Denon in the dedicated PM3 thread.

Thanks I will check there, I was in that thread before but I haven't looked at it in quite some time.

 

[WallofHooligans]

I found this thread on the front page of the full size headphones forum section

But I have been looking at PM-3's for a while when I started researching different headphone technologies

See now researching of different technologies is exactly the way to get introduced. I suggest you grab a cheap yamaha orthodynamic if you're interested in the capabilities of that technology. From there, there's a lot of interesting options that a designer might go through to carefully construct a great headphone. Different sized drivers, different strengths and shapes of magnets, push-Pull vs single sided magnets, dipole vs single sided drivers, acoustic dampening and shape/materials of the cups, not to mention space between the driver and the magnets and the distance of the driver to the ear. Truly there's a lot to consider, and as I've said before- I think planars are the best driver for modifying exactly to your own tastes, because of their inherent strengths.

As always though, it's best not to get to build hype around the old ones if you're looking for the best possible quality. Vintage will almost always mean low efficiency and low portability, among other factors ,especially age and all the pitfalls involved with the passing of time.

 

[Jimster480]

See now researching of different technologies is exactly the way to get introduced. I suggest you grab a cheap yamaha orthodynamic if you're interested in the capabilities of that technology. From there, there's a lot of interesting options that a designer might go through to carefully construct a great headphone. Different sized drivers, different strengths and shapes of magnets, push-Pull vs single sided magnets, dipole vs single sided drivers, acoustic dampening and shape/materials of the cups, not to mention space between the driver and the magnets and the distance of the driver to the ear. Truly there's a lot to consider, and as I've said before- I think planars are the best driver for modifying exactly to your own tastes, because of their inherent strengths.

I know what you mean, I never realized there was so much to audio before getting so deep into it.
From the DAC to the Amp to the cabling to the design of speakers/headphones/IEM's there are so many different ways to achieve the same thing and so many ways audio is modified or produced to sound a certain way.

I also see you mention Yamaha's, what is the model and where can I find them?

 

[WallofHooligans]

I know what you mean, I never realized there was so much to audio before getting so deep into it.
From the DAC to the Amp to the cabling to the design of speakers/headphones/IEM's there are so many different ways to achieve the same thing and so many ways audio is modified or produced to sound a certain way.

I also see you mention Yamaha's, what is the model and where can I find them?

I suggest you check the ebay, or whatever is appropriate to where you live. The lowest tier stuff are the Yamaha Yh-3 and the Yamaha Hp-3, They are both the same, as far as I know. I think the original idea was that they were hitting different pricing brackets, but selling the same product. Sort of like selling cheapo bottles of wine, and expensive bottles of the same wine, but with a fancier label. There are some other options, but none of them appear at an agreeable price very often. The only one I can think of that sometimes prices fairly is the Realistic Pro30.

 

[GREQ]

^ "todays lineup" of neo orthos scavenged ideas from this thread, then began the current ridiculou$ne$$.

Like when Audeze released the isines, and arrogantly claimed it to be the "world's first planar IEM". They know it isn't, and they are well aware Yamaha did it in 1978.
I guess "world's 2nd" isn't good enough for their marketing team.

 

[ruhenheiM]

Like when Audeze released the isines, and arrogantly claimed it to be the "world's first planar IEM". They know it isn't, and they are well aware Yamaha did it in 1978.
I guess "world's 2nd" isn't good enough for their marketing team.

not many people going to fact check anyway. just like when focal utopia came out, suddenly people talking about beryllium drivers like they're the one who invented it., like it is the best thing that ever happen in audio industry. if only yamaha could make a lot of money in headphone market, they probably going to do it again but i guess for a company like yamaha, it's just a small market for them or maybe they sold their patent to other companies long time ago, i don't know. in the same decade they came out with the first beryllium drivers speaker and orthodynamic headphone and first orthodynamic iem, fostex probably did it earlier for planar headphones


@Jimster480
you could try to look for yamaha hp1,2,3 or yamaha yh1,2,3. you could find one of them cheaper than oppo pm3 on ebay. i never heard oppo pm3, i only tried pm2 and pm1,they are fairly nice headphone. but yamaha if you could get them cheap, it's just hard to beat.especially if you like that kind of sound but you need to spend on amplifier though.

 

[Feilong4]

I like my hp-1, unmodified they sound flat though edging toward dark more than bright, and have a roll-off towards the high notes. It's a smooth and enjoyable sort of flatness, though not everyone's cup of tea. The pair I modified with fiberglass tube insulation and dynamat sounds punchy and fun.

How do you get into earcups? I wanted to mod my YH-3's but I'm not completely sure how to get into the earcups without destroying the front parts.

I tried reading some pages back but I didn't really see any detailed procedure.

I saw rhythmdevils' modded pair measured on innerfidelity and they seemed to measure very well.

 

[93EXCivic]

Like when Audeze released the isines, and arrogantly claimed it to be the "world's first planar IEM". They know it isn't, and they are well aware Yamaha did it in 1978.
I guess "world's 2nd" isn't good enough for their marketing team.

Interesting. I didnt know Yamaha had done that. What was it called?

I pulled the trigger on some HP1s yesterday. So I will see how I like them.

 

[Feilong4]

Interesting. I didnt know Yamaha had done that. What was it called?

I pulled the trigger on some HP1s yesterday. So I will see how I like them.

I believe it's the Yamaha YH-5M. Very uhh "interesting" looking IEM.

 

[ruhenheiM]