Orthodynamic Roundup

[wualta]

Quote:

 
So is there any missing link between the aniso HP-1 and the LCD-2?

Har! Short answer: yes.
 

 

[leeperry]

 

 
yes.

 
Like?

 

[vid]

Thanks again for the insights, wualta!
 
Quote:

4 ) Am I understanding your question?

 
I'm not sure if there was a question at all in that one.

 Basically just me ranting about sound waves being tough to understand for me. But just out of curiosity, what question did you feel I was asking? Because I think the answer went over my head at least partly.
 
You made a good point (reminder) about the shape of the (I assume outer) ear, whose different parts I guess would indeed change the incoming sound more than any specific part on a round, flat ortho driver would in producing it. At least I suppose this was the point you were making?
 
In any case, whether or not I understood the instructions, I tried a variation of the reflex dot with the assumption in mind that there may be some part of my ear causing (or worsening) the peak in the higher frequencies.
 
I made a paper semi-half-circle (it was cut out of a bunch of sheets folded in the middle, so it's six 80 g sheets thick):

 
It's not quite as large in diameter as the HOK baffle, but I think it's roughly the size of one half of the driver.
 
I made another one and placed one under each pad in various orientations, here 'up':

 
I'm not sure of the exact physical reasons, but this changes the sound in different ways depending on the orientation of the sheet.
 
When the sheet is 'up' (i.e. covering the upper portion of the driver), the frequency response develops a notch around 6500 Hz, the 9000 Hz hump is more or less unaffected, but the overall sound (listening to music) has more bass – I quite like the way this sounds. When the sheet is 'left' (I think this translates to the portion of the outer blade of the ear), the overall sound is notably muffled and the 9000 Hz hump is slightly reduced. 'Right' produces a sound that's perhaps more or less equal to 'up' (these two orientations I didn't test against each other, but in any case 'right' produced a less muffled sound than 'left', which I did compare directly). 'Bottom', again, muffled the sound, but also completely got rid of the 9000 Hz hump, and in fact pretty much smoothed out all the upper frequencies north of that (but, again, the overall sound was muffled). I'll do some more experiments with different materials and thicknesses.
 
I also tried a donut made up of six 80 g paper sheets; this slightly reduced the 9000 Hz hump but also made the sound seem like it was coming through an open-bottomed barrel. A bigger hole might work better, or less thick paper.
 
The pads are starting to come apart at the inner seams. Need to eventually sew them together or something; not too keen on paying 30 euros for those HD25 pads.

 

[leeperry]

Ah well, the human brain is a very poor measuring tool so I've quickly A/B'ed both HP-1's and a fully pimped T50RP(Akasa/Newplast/sa5k earpads):
-the T50RP has very transparent trebles, a not so exciting SS, pretty nice mids and a pretty dull bass...it's not really an exciting phone, but it's got details and resolution

-the sintered HP-1 has a very lively mid-bass that's highly energizing, very fun sounding distorted mids and the trebles are just an after-thought. the SS is amazing, as 3D as you get...this phone feels like a "70's funkiness" DSP enabled in your media player, it's not detailed, it's not monitoring grade, it's not transparent...but it's sheer fun to listen to: the ultimate 70's experience to my ears

-the aniso HP-1 does everything better than the sintered, but it can't either compete w/ the T50RP for the trebles clarity or w/ the sintered for sheer fun. It's boring to listen to, and it definitely isn't half-a-grand sounding to my ears...so back to ebay it's gonna go, that'll fund a second hand LCD-2 if I'm lucky

 

[nick n]

Quote:

-the aniso HP-1 does everything better than the sintered, but it can't either compete w/ the T50RP for the trebles clarity or w/ the sintered for sheer fun. It's boring to listen to, and it definitely isn't half-a-grand sounding to my ears...so back to ebay it's gonna go, that'll fund a second hand LCD-2 if I'm lucky

I was going to ask how much that went for. That has to be the most yet is it not? Maybe someone's laundering $ ,I can't see how otherwise, unless that World Design Museum needed a spare. Is there a hidden golden ticket in the manual?
At least it bodes well for you now leeperry. Good luck!

 
I hope our recent posts for the HP-1 in the Pictures Metaphoring the Sound  thread didn't unduly influence this outcome.

 

[vid]

Nice, the Yamaha HP-$. Apparently quite a few people found them worth $500+ (which is nothing to a collector, of course).

 

[leeperry]

 

Nice, the Yamaha HP-$. Apparently quite a few people found them worth $500+ (which is nothing to a collector, of course).

Well, I've got the original box, cardboard spacers and the headband/earpads look new.
 
It's in the same condition as guru's really: http://www.hifivision.com/audio-video-accessories/10122-orthodynamic-headphones-all-things-planar-50.html#post294375
 
This is what a true collector wants, and that'll buy me a used LCD-2 if my sales pitch holds water(and it will ^^)
 

 
I hope our recent posts for the HP-1 in the Pictures Metaphoring the Sound  thread didn't unduly influence this outcome.

Well, the sintered was meant to listen to this kind of early 70's funk to my ears:

 
Fender Rhodes really benefits from distorted "musical sounding" mids IME.
 
To get more metaphorical, this is the sintered HP-1 song:

 
PS: Ah well, "Bob Marley & The Wailers - Exodus (Deluxe Edition)" also kills on the sintered...ultimate 70's vibrations

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Ah well, the human brain is a very poor measuring tool so I've quickly A/B'ed both HP-1's and a fully pimped T50RP(Akasa/Newplast/sa5k earpads):
-the T50RP has very transparent trebles, a not so exciting SS, pretty nice mids and a pretty dull bass...it's not really an exciting phone, but it's got details and resolution

-the sintered HP-1 has a very lively mid-bass that's highly energizing, very fun sounding distorted mids and the trebles are just an after-thought. the SS is amazing, as 3D as you get...this phone feels like a "70's funkiness" DSP enabled in your media player, it's not detailed, it's not monitoring grade, it's not transparent...but it's sheer fun to listen to: the ultimate 70's experience to my ears

-the aniso HP-1 does everything better than the sintered, but it can't either compete w/ the T50RP for the trebles clarity or w/ the sintered for sheer fun. It's boring to listen to, and it definitely isn't half-a-grand sounding to my ears...so back to ebay it's gonna go, that'll fund a second hand LCD-2 if I'm lucky

Perhaps I missed a post here, but does the aniso version say 1a anywhere? Are there any visible differences on the phone or the package that reveals if it is an HP-1a or a normal HP-1?
 

 

[gurubhai]

It is not an Hp-1a (or atleast nothing is mentioned of it on the box/headphones).
May be someone that too would turn up,like the 'chrome' version of T30 did.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

 
Like?

I certainly do. Vanilla, though, not strorbry.
 


Quote:

1 ) I'm not sure if there was a question at all in that one.
 
2 ) ... the ..outer ear, whose different parts I guess would change the incoming sound more than any specific part on a round, flat ortho driver would in producing it...
 
3 ) I tried a variation of the reflex dot with the assumption in mind that there may be some part of my ear causing (or worsening) the peak in the higher frequencies. I made a paper semi-half-circle... this changes the sound in different ways depending on     the orientation of the sheet..

 
1 ) Me neither. Some people overthink and become unsure that one tiny diaphragm operating in unison over its whole surface can reproduce the sounds of all the instruments of the orchestra/band/howler-monkey troop, and I thought you might be edging toward that  with your talk of points and windows and your question about the ortho diaphragm possibly having separate bass and treble areas. 
 
2 ) Yes. The outer ear, or pinna, is directional. There's a small vertical slot between the tragus and antitragus called the intertragal notch; cover the notches in both ears with your fingertips, then close your eyes and try to localize sounds out in front of you. Or tilt your head toward a sound to pick up more energy in a little band centered around 8kHz. Stax played with these phenomena in the SR-3 and SR-5.. UltraSone seems to be trying something similar.
 
3 ) This is an excellent experiment to try, and as you can see, it makes a sometimes-useful difference. Let us know what you find out as you keep trying things.
 
 

 
 

 

[leeperry]

 

I certainly do. Vanilla, though, not strorbry.

OK, I think my question would have interested many readers(especially those who recently jumped on the T50RP wagon as I did)...but if old timers don't want to share their real world experience w/ newbies, that's their own right of course. I'm always happy to share my experience, but each to his own after all.
 
This said, I believe the LCD-2 is way above the competition in the ortho department? Owners keep raving about its deep bass FWIR(especially rev.2). And now that the FOTM is fading out a bit and that its most OCD'ed owners shell out for the LCD-3, LCD-2's can be found second hand at more realistic prices.
 
The Hifiman's seem to suffer from major QA issues(I've read many horror stories, and not only here on head-fi), the vintage ortho's are a luck of the draw to find...and when OCD'ed collectors go crazy on ebay, you see silly things such as this +$550 used sintered HP-1

 

 
does the aniso version say 1a anywhere? Are there any visible differences on the phone or the package that reveals if it is an HP-1a or a normal HP-1?

Nope, all it says is aniso and the slightly higher sensitivity spec. Of course, the box is black. See guru's pics.

 

[wualta]

I too think your question would have interested many readers. What exactly were you talking about? If, as I assumed, you were bemoaning the fact that there is a missing link-- ie, a big gap; ie, it's truly missing-- between the LCDs and the first-gen YamaOrthos, then I agree with you, and said so, and have said so in the past. If you're going to complain about the answers you get, you also have to consider the possibility that the wording of your questions might be unclear.

 

[rhythmdevils]

I don't think the LCD-2 or LCD-3 is that far above the vintage orthos and I don't think they are by any means the best an ortho can be.  I think they still have problems just like the vintage stuff.  I don't think we've seen even close to the potential yet and I have a feeling it's going to be a modern smaller driver ortho that will be the real game changer. 

 

[joelpearce]

I don't think the LCD-2 or LCD-3 is that far above the vintage orthos and I don't think they are by any means the best an ortho can be.  I think they still have problems just like the vintage stuff.  I don't think we've seen even close to the potential yet and I have a feeling it's going to be a modern smaller driver ortho that will be the real game changer. 

I think Fostex is crazy not to take advantage of the recent popularity of the T50RP. Some fiddling with the driver, a bit more attention to aesthetics... if they can put theT50 out for $75, what could they do at the $250 level?

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk

 

[leeperry]

 

I too think your question would have interested many readers. What exactly were you talking about? If, as I assumed, you were bemoaning the fact that there is a missing link-- ie, a big gap; ie, it's truly missing-- between the LCDs and the first-gen YamaOrthos, then I agree with you, and said so, and have said so in the past. If you're going to complain about the answers you get, you also have to consider the possibility that the wording of your questions might be unclear.

 
Well, english isn't my native tongue...how's your french going BTW? ^^
 
Allow me to reword it then: What would be a worthy phone to try in order to gain more clarity over the sintered HP-1, but still keep its very uptight mid-bass, holographic headstage and fun factor? The T50RP provides far clearer trebles, but its headstage is meh, the mid/deep bass is flabby and it's just boring to listen to IME. I guess I could dare saying that the sintered HP-1 is utterly colored but also extremely fun to listen to, when the T50RP is too analytic/sterile sounding(even off a discrete amp) and not fun enough in comparison.
 
I'm really having a ball w/ the HP-1, its utterly colored sound ravishes me

 

I don't think the LCD-2 or LCD-3 is that far above the vintage orthos and I don't think they are by any means the best an ortho can be.  I think they still have problems just like the vintage stuff.  I don't think we've seen even close to the potential yet and I have a feeling it's going to be a modern smaller driver ortho that will be the real game changer. 

Apparently, the LCD-2 rev2 has a thunderous bass response? I'd buy it used anyway, so it wouldn't cost me anything if I were to resell it quicky afterwards.