I agree that both are overpriced (especially the SUSVARA lol), but what I don't agree with is the "brand value perspective." No brand is inherently worth more than another, the product speaks for itself.
The build quality of the HE1000v2 (not v1) and presumably SUSVARA is an interesting mixed bag. The headphone body is ok, spring steel I believe but thin, but should be able to take abuse. The pads however are garbage, and the headphone connectors are garbage (which will wear out over time, not good). Sigh... when will they learn?
Both of those headphones do belong in a higher price bracket than any dynamic headphone for sure though. Dynamic headphones cannot achieve that level of performance (particularly transparency and also bass, even though the HE1000 is hardly the last word in planar bass). But they cost more than electrostats... goodbye value. Then again... aren't they actually costlier to produce than electrostats?
Even though I do agree to certain extent that products should speak for themselves, brands do have their value. Think BMW, Mercedes, etc. These brand equity are earned through time. Even if I make a good headphone, logically I should not be able to charge like big brands do.
I don't think making planars are in general more expensive than dynamics. However, I was told that Stax spends a lot on research and unable to charge as high margin. Stax are expensive, but I am much more forgiving on their high price tags.
Try opening HEK and see what is inside. Doesn't look expensive to me. Looks pretty bland if anything.
Even though I do agree to certain extent that products should speak for themselves, brands do have their value. BMW, Mercedes, etc. These brand equity are earned. Even if I make a good headphone, I should not be able to charge like big brands do.
I don't think making planars are in general more expensive than dynamics. However, I was told that Stax spends a lot on research and unable to charge as high margin. Stax are expensive, but I am much more forgiving on their high price tags.
Try opening HEK and see what is inside. Doesn't look expensive to me. Looks pretty bland if anything.
For sure brand value is an inseparable part of the industry. As for planars, the use of nanometer thin diaphragms and the powerful magnets will add to the cost over dynamics. Good point about Stax though, I'm quite certain they do more R&D than any other headphone manufacturer which is why their high end headphones are always truly cutting edge, refined down to the smallest detail and without the snake oil. That, combined with their physical build quality being unrivaled. I have the utmost respect for their headphones. The SR-007 is a phenomenal value these days too, probably the best value high end headphone.
For sure brand value is an inseparable part of the industry. As for planars, the use of nanometer thin diaphragms and the powerful magnets will add to the cost over dynamics. Good point about Stax though, I'm quite certain they do more R&D than any other headphone manufacturer which is why their high end headphones are always truly cutting edge, refined down to the smallest detail and without the snake oil. That, combined with their physical build quality being unrivaled. I have the utmost respect for their headphones. The SR-007 is a phenomenal value these days too, probably the best value high end headphone.
Agreed. I have full respect for Stax as well. They are in a class of their own. I think they deserve their high price tags.
Sennheiser Orpheus is another example. Of course, USD50k is too high a price for a headphone system. But I do not feel people are getting ripped off. It is a statement product by an established headphone brand. I don't think Sennheiser meant to sell a boatload of Orpheus.
Dynamics and planars have their characters and pro/con. Neither one is inferior to the other.
I agree that both are overpriced (especially the SUSVARA lol), but what I don't agree with is the "brand value perspective." No brand is inherently worth more than another, the product speaks for itself.
The build quality of the HE1000v2 (not v1) and presumably SUSVARA is an interesting mixed bag. The headphone body is ok, spring steel I believe but thin, but should be able to take abuse. The pads however are garbage, and the headphone connectors are garbage (which will wear out over time, not good). Sigh... when will they learn?
Both of those headphones do belong in a higher price bracket than any dynamic headphone for sure though. Dynamic headphones cannot achieve that level of performance (particularly transparency and also bass, even though the HE1000 is hardly the last word in planar bass). But they cost more than electrostats... goodbye value. Then again... aren't they actually costlier to produce than electrostats?
The whole hobby is ridiculous if you really study IEM audio. $2500 players with non-changeable batteries. IEMs which have super expensive cables, which are prone to failure, and almost as thin as a human hair......just waiting for moisture and to become green and non-audiophile. All this IEM audio just waiting for the wrong tug to bring the whole affair to ruin!
Let alone........don’t even try to walk around with any portable audio, as there is always that risk of dropping stuff and bringing everything to the point of a thousands-of-dollars-broken-mess.
And there is maybe no other group of consumers willing to risk such a large amount of investment held together like wings on a butterfly!
Not to mention how HiFi Man brings the whole hobby realized as almost a crutch of physical embodiment! Stuff just held together as simply and economically as humanly possible. But for that glimpse of sound, audiophiles will tolerate any level of delicate construction, defending the mess with the word “value”..........to the point of insanity! In reality it’s an inside joke.
Agreed. I have full respect for Stax as well. They are in a class of their own. I think they deserve their high price tags.
Sennheiser Orpheus is another example. Of course, USD50k is too high a price for a headphone system. But I do not feel people are getting ripped off. It is a statement product by an established headphone brand. I don't think Sennheiser meant to sell a boatload of Orpheus. Nor was it trying to make an Orpheus Jr and make it look like a bargain.
Dynamics and planars have their characters and pro/con. Not one is inferior to the other.
I'm not too sure about the Orpheus HE-1. Being limited to its own amplifier is a huge limitation, I think it permanently loses to a good Stax system because of it. It is a statement product, but perhaps with misplaced priorities not leading to the best possible sound.
Not all will agree but when it comes to high end, over ear headphones or speakers, I think the only pro to dynamic driver tech is that it's the easiest to drive.
Well if you guys are going to keep unloading on Hifiman and their build quality, then you need to add Audeze too. They’re headphones way as much as bowling balls and their earpads are GLUED ON! Seriously Audeze?
Well if you guys are going to keep unloading on Hifiman and their build quality, then you need to add Audeze too. They’re headphones way as much as bowling balls and their earpads are GLUED ON! Seriously Audeze?
Honestly the weight can't really be avoided, they just need to use an effective suspension headband design (unlike the LCD-4) to offload the weight. The LCD-4 for example weighs so much (more than any headphone I've encountered) because of magnet arrays which have unparalleled driving force of any planar magnetic headphone, I guess strengthening the magnetic field leading to stronger impact (capitalizing on one of the benefits of planar magnetic tech the most). Those magnets simply have to be heavier.
But yeah glued earpads is silly. Easily removable pads is a big plus.
Well if you guys are going to keep unloading on Hifiman and their build quality, then you need to add Audeze too. They’re headphones way as much as bowling balls and their earpads are GLUED ON! Seriously Audeze?
I used to share the same distaste for Audeze with their driver failures, product variations, and ballooning pricing. But with Hifiman setting new "standards" every time, it is hard for Audeze to keep up.
I have both $800 LCD-2C and $3k HEK. I have to say that the 2C build quality is leagues better than HEK. It feels solid and expensive. HEK feels like $300 headphone. My Fidelio X2 is insulted to be put in the same build quality class with HEK.
I used to share the same distaste for Audeze with their driver failures, product variations, and ballooning pricing. But with Hifiman setting new "standards" every time, it is hard for Audeze to keep up.
Haha! I’m not defending Hifiman’s build quality, but their headphones do sound good. If Audeze ever makes an LCD that actually has an upper mid/lower treble range and weighs less than a Volvo, then I’m in.
Haha! I’m not defending Hifiman’s build quality, but their headphones do sound good. If Audeze ever makes an LCD that actually has an upper mid/lower treble range and weighs less than a Volvo, then I’m in.
In terms of sound, Hifiman and Audeze have different characters. Hifiman also does not have Audeze bass. It's a matter of preference. Maybe Audeze sound is just not your thing.
In terms of sound, Hifiman and Audeze have different characters. Hifiman also does not have Audeze bass. It's a matter of preference. Maybe Audeze sound is just not your thing.
The LCD X is my favorite of them all because it’s the closest to neutral. It still has awesome bass but it’s not overly done like their 2,3, and 4. But even it still has too much of an upper mid/lower treble drop off. If they fixed that, I’d be all over it.
The LCD X is my favorite of them all because it’s the closest to neutral. It still has awesome bass but it’s not overly done like their 2,3, and 4. But even it still has too much of an upper mid/lower treble drop off. If they fixed that, I’d be all over it.
Though not everyone wants that of course, but to me overdone bass means artificially boosted a la any headphone with a V-shaped sound signature.
But yeah they all have that treble dip (though the LCD-4 does have remarkable treble extension) that takes away realism no matter what. I am curious what the HiFiMan SUSVARA sounds like.
Though not everyone wants that of course, but to me overdone bass means artificially boosted a la any headphone with a V-shaped sound signature.
But yeah they all have that treble dip (though the LCD-4 does have remarkable treble extension) that takes away realism no matter what. I am curious what the HiFiMan SUSVARA sounds like.
Yeah me too. I’ve never heard it and it’s a monster to amplify properly. But from what I’ve heard and read, it’s not much of an improvement over the HEK V2. In fact, many on here have said they prefer the HEK to the Susvara.
Yeah me too. I’ve never heard it and it’s a monster to amplify properly. But from what I’ve heard and read, it’s not much of an improvement over the HEK V2. In fact, many on here have said they prefer the HEK to the Susvara.
The SUSVARA seems based on the HE-6, the sound signature is probably somewhat close to that I'm guessing? Which would mean much more energy and impact than the more laid back HE1000/HE1000v2. But $6,000 = lol.
Anyhoo, I have only had 2 Sonys before, one, an open MDR something 18 years ago & the mdr1 bought when I was ignorant of the P7 defect. Now the P7 as modded with the Damar resin. I just enjoy them so much now I never thought to double check my perception of them .
So disappointed you say, would you suggest a better that I could demo at say a Best Buy Magnolia Audio where I got the close out p7.
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