Matrix X-Sabre DAC review and impression thread

[ru4music]

A question for current owners regarding operation: is there a delay in the x-Sabre locking on to the signal (USB and coax)? My current dac takes a second to lock so I always miss the first second of a song when I use wasapi

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Not at all when using both USB and coax with Windows VISTA Home Premium (32/ 64 bit) and foobar2000/ ASIO driver.

 

[Loquah]

Jd007, have you tried other drivers? Maybe worth trying Directsound or ASIO to see if it's a hardware or software issue.

 

[Chodi]

A question for current owners regarding operation: is there a delay in the x-Sabre locking on to the signal (USB and coax)? My current dac takes a second to lock so I always miss the first second of a song when I use wasapi

(

 
Just a thought.....if you are using JRiver or Foobar set to play from memory rather than directly from disk it could cause that delay. Also your driver can cause that particularly if you are using Kernal Streaming. You might try increasing the size of your buffer in the software.

 

[Jd007]

hey guys, thanks for the help, but i wasnt clear i guess in my question. my current which is not an x-sabre has this problem, so i was wondering whether the x-sabre has this issue as well. my x-sabre hasnt arrived yet (in shipping though), so i wanted to know before it does. glad to know the x-sabre doesnt have this issue!

 

[holzohr]

   
Nice! I sold my SBT a while back, but this sounds like a great way to get an affordable DSD capable music server going. 

 
I especially like that I can use it with the SBT/LMS plattform. I don`t need to keep a second "infrastructure" anymore. I already could play DSD files with an Oppo BDP-103 but there are some limitations as missing gapless playback and mixing up the numbered order of songs when access via smb. Really odd that. Besides, I don`t need to waste any thought about upgrading to the Oppo 105 anymore. (Who knows if Oppo ever can make its USB DAC ready for DoP.)
 
Sound quality is amazing. At first, I was in worry a bit because of my Lyngdorf amp and the signal path: (X-Sabre) D/A --> (Lyngdorf) A/D. But it works!

 

[Jd007]

anybody uses the x-sabre with powered speakers (like audioengine a5+ or swans m200mkii)? how well does the rca out to these speakers work? i've experienced clipping/distorting from other dacs before which i think was caused by the rca having too much power output

 

[holzohr]

Jd007... when I am not wrong, you need a preamp between the X-Sabre and these speakers. You can not control the volume by this DAC.
 
You would need a DAC with volume control, like this one: http://www.bmc-audio.com/index.php/PureDAC-EN.html

 

[Jd007]

  Jd007... when I am not wrong, you need a preamp between the X-Sabre and these speakers. You can not control the volume by this DAC.
 
You would need a DAC with volume control, like this one: http://www.bmc-audio.com/index.php/PureDAC-EN.html

 
powered speakers have builtin amp and volume control so no preamp is needed. i've run my powered speakers from my sound card before (without using OS volume control) and also before i used a bifrost which did not have volume control either and worked fine.

 

[geetarman49]

  anybody uses the x-sabre with powered speakers (like audioengine a5+ or swans m200mkii)? how well does the rca out to these speakers work? i've experienced clipping/distorting from other dacs before which i think was caused by the rca having too much power output

 
 

   
powered speakers have builtin amp and volume control so no preamp is needed. i've run my powered speakers from my sound card before (without using OS volume control) and also before i used a bifrost which did not have volume control either and worked fine.

 
 
bifrost rca output rated at 2.0 Vrms; OP's initial post rates x-sabre output at 2.2 Vrms.  is this enough to send your a5+ into clipping mode?  perhaps; if so, a preamp (or attenuator) is required.  various source' output voltages (rca) may run from 1.7 - 2.5 Vrms from my encounters.  why don't you ask the audioengine ppl what their max input voltage is before clipping?

 

[Jd007]

   
bifrost rca output rated at 2.0 Vrms; OP's initial post rates x-sabre output at 2.2 Vrms.  is this enough to send your a5+ into clipping mode?  perhaps; if so, a preamp (or attenuator) is required.  various source' output voltages (rca) may run from 1.7 - 2.5 Vrms from my encounters.  why don't you ask the audioengine ppl what their max input voltage is before clipping?

 
i know what the output level over RCA is as i read the OP's review and the X-sabre's product page. however i am skeptical about the output levels of the x-sabre, especially since it's quite weird that the balanced output is so high and not double what RCA is. i have inquired (indirectly) the x-sabre tech design engineer about it and waiting for a response. i dont have an audioengine, instead i have another similar powered speaker set and their manufacturers are more difficult to reach especially with such a technical question (clipping voltage for the builtin amp in powered speakers is not a common spec). i simply asked here to see if anybody has experience in this matter. thank you for your reply.

 

[project86]

It has to do with the way the ES9018 works. Check out the Calyx Femto - 2V on the RCA outs, 6.8V on the XLR. That 6.8V is no coincidence. It requires some extra tweaking on the part of the designer, to bring down the levels for XLR. Some people do it, like Anedio and Yulong. Others don't.

Regarding 2.2V on the RCa out - I can't imagine that being too difficult for most any preamp input. It's only a tiny bit higher than average.

 

[geetarman49]

i doubt my previous experiences with source output overloading input of amp 'y' would be of any practical use for your case; i think the specifics of your question really requires direct testing ... you could fire off a query to rachel at grantfidelity or to matrix-digi-usa to determine whether or not x-sabre is compatible with active spkr 'z'
 
fwiw, i had to resort to using a preamp, but there are high quality attenuators which are considerably cheaper.
 
hth,

 

[Jd007]

It has to do with the way the ES9018 works. Check out the Calyx Femto - 2V on the RCA outs, 6.8V on the XLR. That 6.8V is no coincidence. It requires some extra tweaking on the part of the designer, to bring down the levels for XLR. Some people do it, like Anedio and Yulong. Others don't.

Regarding 2.2V on the RCa out - I can't imagine that being too difficult for most any preamp input. It's only a tiny bit higher than average.

 
yeah i know about the calyx. the calyx 24/192 dac also has the same 2.2V/6.8V output. i didnt know it was due to the es9018 chip because like you said many other es9018 chips have lower output levels. still it's a bit werid that the rca output is not half of xlr output. i guess they go through completely separate analog output stages/circuits?
 
and yeah as for x-sabre on powered speakers i'll just wait and see myself i guess. thanks for the help guys

 

[Esprit]

  powered speakers have builtin amp and volume control so no preamp is needed. i've run my powered speakers from my sound card before (without using OS volume control) and also before i used a bifrost which did not have volume control either and worked fine.

No volume control on *pro*  powered speaker.

 

[project86]

   
yeah i know about the calyx. the calyx 24/192 dac also has the same 2.2V/6.8V output. i didnt know it was due to the es9018 chip because like you said many other es9018 chips have lower output levels. still it's a bit werid that the rca output is not half of xlr output. i guess they go through completely separate analog output stages/circuits?
 
and yeah as for x-sabre on powered speakers i'll just wait and see myself i guess. thanks for the help guys

 
It has to do with the way they sum the 4 DACs per channel in the ES9018 when using single ended mode. But the 6.8V output is kind of like a headphone amp centered around the TPA6120 driver chip - the specs call for 10 ohm output impedance, so that's what you'll see more often than not. But some companies (Audinst for example) use alternative methods to get the output impedance lower, which they feel is worth the trouble.