Kevintj604
Headphoneus Supremus
I've got a Focal Radiance already and I didn't really like the Clear OG's.
I'll probably wait until Monday so I can see what Audeze publishes for frequency graphs and base my choice on those.
LCD-X and XC Update
- Thread starter Audeze
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I'll probably wait until Monday so I can see what Audeze publishes for frequency graphs and base my choice on those.
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Ah got it. FWIW, the Clear MG was more different sounding than graphs suggest. That 8k peak disappearing reeeeeeeeally smooths out the overall presentation. Also was bassier, to my ear.
Hope the squiggles from Audeze come soon (wish they'd release graphs of *all* of their models).
Kevintj604
Headphoneus Supremus
Yeah. I do too. I'm trying to buy either one or the other but the more I read this thread the more I'm leaning towards the LCD2's. Lots of people report the 2021 LCDX to have significant bass rolloff compared to the older models.
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It's weird; I don't think the measured bass response is all that different, aside from dropping around 30Hz; but I tested my friend Alex's older version with the memory foam pads and the impression I got was that the front volume sealed better so the perceived impact in the bass/sub-bass was noticeably better... but still not by much.
Mine had wayyyyy less bass than my Grado hemps and my 58x. Tried two amps. I’m new to the headphone game but I’m convinced that I got a bad set. EQing helped but it had to be significant. I’m leaning towards the fostex th900 to see if maybe I’m a basshead in denial
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That to me sounds like either a borked unit or possibly mistaking the low-mids (100-240Hz) for bass. Regardless, seems you didn't like the sound; I hope the TH900 works out for you!
PROTIP: Try to get your hands on TH610 pads; brings the mids closer to neutral and calms the treble
I just received the frequency response graph for my 2021 LCD-XC today. It is a little bass light compared to my older set. But it sounds faster, cleaner, does the delicate details better and noticeably superior in the upper mids/lower treble. Traded a chunk of bass in the older version for a sizeable improvement in the mids/treble and I would say slightly better detail. Point is my old LCD-XC was already the second best closed back I had heard (after the Stellia, have not demoed the VC yet). Now the new one is not only the best closed back, but maybe the best headphone period (for me). Especially after a little EQ. It really works with all genres now. Amazing.
EDIT: LCD-XC responds better to EQ than any other headphone I have tried, especially in the bass department. So if you are concerned about the new version being bass light (I was TBH), just EQ that ish! I use the bass boost on my Fiio Q5s (+6db) and that is really all the EQ this headphone needs for me. Of course when I am attached to the desktop set up (JDS Labs Element II) I use about 9 filters (Equalizer APO/Peace) to make it perfect (!) to my ears.
EDIT: LCD-XC responds better to EQ than any other headphone I have tried, especially in the bass department. So if you are concerned about the new version being bass light (I was TBH), just EQ that ish! I use the bass boost on my Fiio Q5s (+6db) and that is really all the EQ this headphone needs for me. Of course when I am attached to the desktop set up (JDS Labs Element II) I use about 9 filters (Equalizer APO/Peace) to make it perfect (!) to my ears.
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I will keep that in mind, thanks.
the low-mids could be why I felt there was nothing there as well. As I understand, the th900 has both below 100 and 100-240 covered.
gaze13
New Head-Fier
Just got in my pair of 2021 LCD-X. Apparently there are still a ton of problems with consistency. Here are my average RAW measurements taken with EARS. The profile immediately sounded muted in the vocal range when I put them on for a first subjective listen. Then I put them on the rig and they show much more closely to the profile of the previous iteration. They sound great with EQ, but your mileage may vary. Apparently.
edit - I'm new, so I can't post any graphs apparently. Guess you'll just have to take my word for it.
edit - I'm new, so I can't post any graphs apparently. Guess you'll just have to take my word for it.
I'm sorry to hear that, I had been led to believe that the new LCD-XC, had sounded not as dark as the previous edition? I had my finger on the order button, until I had read your post. My biggest problem with Audeze headphones, had been that half the upper midrange is muffled (at least from my perspective). I had sold my LCD-3 due to this, and the fact that my speakers had outresolved them handily at an $1800 price point. The darkness, had still been there, even using the Resolve+ plugin (which is in turn a band-aid solution to me). They had sounded nowhere as lively as, say, Focal's Clears. The old model should be available at a great discount, just because, it's the old model. At least they had been able to shave a few ounces off the weight since?
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gaze13
New Head-Fier
They're stunning otherwise. And it's not as bad as the previous version, but my graph looks nothing like the one posted at the beginning of the thread. Still has a pretty pronounced void there. The other areas have a good deal of variation as well. It could be artifacts from my rig of course, but it sounds pretty spot on to my ears. I would have been EQing them either way, so it really isn't a problem for me, but I checked the fazor profile and it's the new 2021 version. Unless the reused the drivers, but this feels more like manufacturing variation to me. I dunno. I can post the graph now though.
They're stunning otherwise. And it's not as bad as the previous version, but my graph looks nothing like the one posted at the beginning of the thread. Still has a pretty pronounced void there. The other areas have a good deal of variation as well. It could be artifacts from my rig of course, but it sounds pretty spot on to my ears. I would have been EQing them either way, so it really isn't a problem for me, but I checked the fazor profile and it's the new 2021 version. Unless the reused the drivers, but this feels more like manufacturing variation to me. I dunno. I can post the graph now though.
I may hold off on my purchase for a month or so until I hear more news about the LCD-XC.. closed back headphones are mainly to hush nearby ambient noise for me, not because I would necessarily choose them over a good open back. Regardless of what the midrange sounds like, there's no doubt in my mind that any Audeze headphone would blow away the IEMs I had just sold in dynamics. With songs that have significant content between 60 Hz and 90 Hz; it's especially apparent how clean and plentiful the Audeze bass is, as compared to my speakers, which have a huge room null and phase shift in that range. Audeze bass detail, hadn't been as good as with HiFiMan's Aryas, but most of the time I hadn't cared.
gaze13
New Head-Fier
I was thinking of going for the LCD-XC as well. I kinda regret not doing it now, because my space can be kind of loud with my A/C going during the summer. I wish I had a point of reference for the other things you're discussing though. I've been using headphones for sound design and mixing since 2000, but this is my first pair of high fidelity headphones. I was using a pair of HD650s for nearly a decade, and the level of detail I heard out of the LCD-Xs was disorienting. So many aspects I hadn't noticed before out of songs that are cemented in my brain. Definitely going to take some time to adjust to this level of clarity, but I don't know if I would have been more satisfied with the Aryas or Clears or something else. Given that everything I've used has been EQd to the same/similar profile, at what point do I just hit diminishing returns regarding detail or punch or spatial qualities?
Lohb
Headphoneus Supremus
Mentioning which pad you have may help with impressions, as they will alter the presentation...I think pleather had a tad less low-end ?
People like the Sennheisers for their flat frequency response, and spot on timbre, however you can hear more detail generally once you pay $800 or more.
As far as I can tell, you do generally get additional detail, soundstage and layering as you pay more, to well over the $2000 price point, I just don't want to personally pay that. The differences can be subtle in some cases. If I had the money, I would get ZMF Verites, not wanting to pay more than that for the LCD-4, Empyrean, or Utopia.
I've had the following:
Focal Clear
- good all-arounder with notably superior detail retrieval to anything below its $1500 price point (I had noticed this first, as hearing texture in stringed instruments)
- due to its metal driver, can sound brassy and fatiguing with percussion in particular: hope they had toned it down with the new Clear Mgs
- average soundstage, not exceptional, and most speakers can outperform in this area
- bass average at best and can sound lacking with hard rock and EDM
- sold them because I hadn't wanted to move the large, pretentious box and the gadgets they had provided, that I hadn't needed
Shure SRH-1540
- more fun to me than the polite Sennheisers at its same price point
- my choice for hard rock, even when I had the higher resolving Clears and the HD700s available (yes I had three headphones at once, in a hotel room)
- dark signature, like Audeze
- bass bloated and not as clean as with a planar headphone, I had EQd it down and applied a slight high shelf (using the Tyll Hertsens graph as a guide for this)
Sennheiser HD700
- a forgotten about scaled down HD800
- a good performer for some music: strings, bows, and vocals
- a step up in detail from the HD650s
- wimpy bass that isn't repairable by EQing it up: I don't think Sennheiser makes any headphones that are above average in this area
- easily EQd treble spike
- below average dynamics
HiFiMan Arya
- very good detail retrieval (about the same as the Clears)
- heard texture in bass guitars that's not quite as present with the LCD-3s
- massive "diffuse field" sound stage, only the HiFiMan HE-1000 and the Sennheiser HD800 are in the same league
- imaging about the same as the Clears
- "soft touch" quality; not as dynamic as an Audeze
- sold them because timbre had sounded dry and hollow with female vocals in particular: as soon as Madonna had sounded funny, I hadn't waited another day to return them
Audeze LCD-3
- wonderful warm, creamy and lush signature as compared to the more technical Clears
- vocals sounded as good as with any headphone I've had
- timbre more agreeable than either the Clears or the Aryas
- detail not as good as the Clears (that's not what you're paying for at the $1950 price point; mine I had gotten used)
- all Audeze headphones, due to the size of their magnets, have superior dynamics and impact to most any other headphone I had tried
- sold them because my Martin Logan 60XT speakers outresolve them, especially in the midrange; ML had really outdone themselves with their midrange driver
- even my servo enabled Rhythmik R12G subwoofer can't resolve subtle details in some songs like the LCD-3 can.
- here's a fun test: The Rolling Stones, "You Can't Always Get What You Want": at the same time the last note of the french horn solo is played, a trombone comes on, on top of it, and plays one note (and a low one): it had been clearly delineated with the headphones, but was barely noticeable with the speakers.
Shanling ME700
- not directly comparable to any full size headphones due to the unique qualities of IEMs in general
- great resolution with Knowles BA drivers
- meaty mid bass with DD in use instead of BAs, but nowhere near as massive as with an Audeze
- lousy soundstage and imaging (due to the small nozzle size, I think there's only a few IEMs that aren't inferior to an average set of headphones in this area).
In all, I would look at the LCD-XC again if they had dealt with the muffled upper midrange, somehow.
I think Josh Valour got hired by Audeze and Grover Neville (who had continued after Tyll had retired). I'm going to be watching for news from those two people.
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