May 16, 2021 at 4:02 AM Post #541 of 2,958
The oval HFM line cans just don't have the visceral impact of the Audeze line barring HekSE which is closer - everything just bigger, more balance and detail vs pre-2021 X on HekSE.....but that price difference...and I feel Audeze more reliable than HFM now....HFM just feel flimsy in-hand.
Re Denon 9200, felt it was muddier in its imaging than planars off the bat. It did not stay long...dynamic air-moving excursion only thing it has over X.
 
May 17, 2021 at 11:49 AM Post #542 of 2,958
How are the Denon's soundstage for a closedback? I can tell you that the LCD-X doens't have that wide and deep soundstage some expect from planar openbacks. When I switch between my Focal Radiance to the LCD-X I don't go "Wow, sounds so open!" like I did with the hifiman Aryas.

I only had this experience again this weekend, switching between LCD X and Ananda more often. ..... so now and then I have a hard time with the LCD X.
 
May 23, 2021 at 5:08 PM Post #545 of 2,958
How are the Denon's soundstage for a closedback? I can tell you that the LCD-X doens't have that wide and deep soundstage some expect from planar openbacks. When I switch between my Focal Radiance to the LCD-X I don't go "Wow, sounds so open!" like I did with the hifiman Aryas.
Sorry for the late reply... The D9200s sound very open and have good sound stage... for a closed back. I'm happy with them in that regard until I A-B them against open headphones. The Denon have such good resolution and separation, along with their phenomenal bass that when I try high-end open-backs, while they may sound more open, they just haven't been able to complete with the Denon in other areas. I owned a set of 2018 LCD-XCs and they couldn't compete at all (even with EQ). I just ordered a set of 2021 LCD-Xs and Quad ERA-1s, so I'll report back on them when I receive them.
 
May 24, 2021 at 5:51 PM Post #546 of 2,958
Edit: “The Chant” by gojira delivers the goods to satisfy my bass needs with no EQ. Most other songs (or albums) just don’t have it.

I’m sure these headphones will grow on me. I’m missing the punch and slam so far
 
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May 25, 2021 at 7:32 PM Post #547 of 2,958
Edit: “The Chant” by gojira delivers the goods to satisfy my bass needs with no EQ. Most other songs (or albums) just don’t have it.

I’m sure these headphones will grow on me. I’m missing the punch and slam so far

I'm an audio engineer and audiophile that is well acquainted with metal in a very hands on way. I listen to A LOT of other genres and am very familiar with how many different things are recorded.

I really like metal, it was my first love in music, but there is no other genre with such a bad state of recording, mixing and mastering. Even the world's very best engineers in the genre are really absorbed into a culture of very bad ideas. One of the most visible and influential mastering engineers on the internet for the genre is selling a CLIPPER vst that "simulates the sound of clipping high end DA converters" as a technique for mastering. Metal recordings are thinned down to have almost no low frequencies and then made as loud as possible by any means necessary. Metal is low budget and everything emerges from DIY. The ideas being shared and standards being set are something that have made quite a mess.

You're generally going to have a hard time with listening to metal no matter what you listen on, because the recordings are bad. Even the very best metal recordings on the planet aren't good. I would go as far as to say, never evaluate anything about audio equipment with any metal. The quest to fix problems that were created by the material you are trying to reproduce will never end because it's a Sisyphean task.

The waveforms are squared off at the top. It's a much more serious problem than any eq response curve could ever fix. Metal and audiophile interests are truly a match made in hell that we both share. I cannot listen to metal on a system that is reference grade or close to it unless I'm ok for listening for a short time at a low volume and then having my ears be too tired to listen to anything else afterwards.

No one even knows what metal COULD sound like. It's a great genre of music that deserves so much better.

One of my favorite metal albums, Obzen by Meshuggah is mastered to -7.7db RMS power. It looks like a rectangle in a DAW instead of a waveform. It's loud, thin as a razor with no dynamics, almost no low frequencies. It's distorted and unpleasant. There's is no audio setup on this planet that will make it sound good. I could make a special eq curve for it and play it back on a reference setup and that's it. It won't help very much. If that same album would have been handled differently, how good it could be it's hard to even imagine good it could sound. Even though it's one of my favorite albums ever, it's the opposite of something I would use to evaluate a piece of audio equipment.

Since we're in the LCD-X thread. I will tell you, on the 2021 LCD-X metal sounds like..... exactly what the recording sounds like. They are marketed as a reference headphone and I actually think they mostly hit the mark as abstract as the concept is.

If you're really into metal, consider making a custom eq curve for different albums. Cut some 4khz and exeriment with the q factor of that cut, roll off some at the top, boost below 50hz.
 
May 25, 2021 at 7:47 PM Post #548 of 2,958
I'm an audio engineer and audiophile that is well acquainted with metal in a very hands on way. I listen to A LOT of other genres and am very familiar with how many different things are recorded.

I really like metal, it was my first love in music, but there is no other genre with such a bad state of recording, mixing and mastering. Even the world's very best engineers in the genre are really absorbed into a culture of very bad ideas. One of the most visible and influential mastering engineers on the internet for the genre is selling a CLIPPER vst that "simulates the sound of clipping high end DA converters" as a technique for mastering. Metal recordings are thinned down to have almost no low frequencies and then made as loud as possible by any means necessary. Metal is low budget and everything emerges from DIY. The ideas being shared and standards being set are something that have made quite a mess.

You're generally going to have a hard time with listening to metal no matter what you listen on, because the recordings are bad. Even the very best metal recordings on the planet aren't good. I would go as far as to say, never evaluate anything about audio equipment with any metal. The quest to fix problems that were created by the material you are trying to reproduce will never end because it's a Sisyphean task.

The waveforms are squared off at the top. It's a much more serious problem than any eq response curve could ever fix. Metal and audiophile interests are truly a match made in hell that we both share. I cannot listen to metal on a system that is reference grade or close to it unless I'm ok for listening for a short time at a low volume and then having my ears be too tired to listen to anything else afterwards.

No one even knows what metal COULD sound like. It's a great genre of music that deserves so much better.

One of my favorite metal albums, Obzen by Meshuggah is mastered to -7.7db RMS power. It looks like a rectangle in a DAW instead of a waveform. It's loud, thin as a razor with no dynamics, almost no low frequencies. It's distorted and unpleasant. There's is no audio setup on this planet that will make it sound good. I could make a special eq curve for it and play it back on a reference setup and that's it. It won't help very much. If that same album would have been handled differently, how good it could be it's hard to even imagine good it could sound. Even though it's one of my favorite albums ever, it's the opposite of something I would use to evaluate a piece of audio equipment.

Since we're in the LCD-X thread. I will tell you, on the 2021 LCD-X metal sounds like..... exactly what the recording sounds like. They are marketed as a reference headphone and I actually think they mostly hit the mark as abstract as the concept is.

If you're really into metal, consider making a custom eq curve for different albums. Cut some 4khz and exeriment with the q factor of that cut, roll off some at the top, boost below 50hz.
I’m also into audio production but at a DIY/hobby level so what you said here resonates with me. I assume you are talking about the JST clipper?

I totally get what you’re saying. I have found a few producers/albums that seem to do it well.

Opeth: Bleak -seems well textured to me

After the Burial: Lost in the static - The low end on this song has that “wallop” I like, which is kind of where I expect to get some punch and slam from any (decent) source.

of course there’s the black album. That does decently on the LCD-X for low end.

Although I agree with you, metal to me is about having a controlled wall of sound. Future Breed Machine also has that chunky wallop I like, yet another example where flaws sonically end up bringing character to the feel of the song
 
May 27, 2021 at 7:02 AM Post #549 of 2,958
I have a very short question without having read this entire thread. I have an older LCD-X from 2016, which I still enjoy without any EQ apart from using the in-house Roon LCD-X preset on occasion. I have no problem whatsoever with the way the X has sounded since I have owned it. However, if the new and revised version of the LCD-x sounds better, or noticeably superior to my older one, then I'd be glad to consider sending it back to Audeze for the upgrade. So what does the forum think so far? Is the LCD-X upgrade worth it? Again, mine is from 2016 and has all the properties of that "vintage" version. My question involves both the tuning and pads of the new iteration of the X, frand assumes what most people on Head-fi due about the subjectivity of preferences. Still I also assume that there are some things that most people can agree in spite of the said subjectivity of preferences, and whether the newer LCD-X is and sounds better than the earlier one is presumably one of these "things," I presume.

PS. If i already love the the sound of the old version , will replacing the pads suffice as an upgrade? Also, I always opt for leather ear pads by default when that option is available, but I would like to know how differently the leather ear pads on the Audeze site and their leather-free variants sound, if there is any sonic difference between them..
 
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May 27, 2021 at 8:53 AM Post #550 of 2,958
Pleather is smoother but might subdue slam in lower frequency.
Difference is quite noticeable between leather vs pleather.
 
May 27, 2021 at 9:07 AM Post #551 of 2,958
Pleather is smoother but might subdue slam in lower frequency.
Difference is quite noticeable between leather vs pleather.
I'm more used to the leather version, so I might as well stick to that, especially if the pleather version might subdue slam in the lower frequency. That "slam" power should definitely remain untouched.
 
May 27, 2021 at 6:18 PM Post #552 of 2,958
I’m also into audio production but at a DIY/hobby level so what you said here resonates with me. I assume you are talking about the JST clipper?

I totally get what you’re saying. I have found a few producers/albums that seem to do it well.

Opeth: Bleak -seems well textured to me

After the Burial: Lost in the static - The low end on this song has that “wallop” I like, which is kind of where I expect to get some punch and slam from any (decent) source.

of course there’s the black album. That does decently on the LCD-X for low end.

Although I agree with you, metal to me is about having a controlled wall of sound. Future Breed Machine also has that chunky wallop I like, yet another example where flaws sonically end up bringing character to the feel of the song
I was referring to Flatline. It speaks for itself that there is more than one of the exact thing I described. The most amusing thing I find about flatline is that the demonstration where he is trying to sell it demonstrating it in a mastering scenario, as soon as he adds it in it sounds terrible. It makes the kick drums sound like splashes in a mud puddle. I wasn't aware of the JST one. It seems like once an engineer gets a certain level of notoriety they now immediately start selling plugins to the now massive DIY market.

All of the metal albums you mentioned I'm sure also suffer from some of the problems that I mentioned. It's absolutely universal all the way across the genre. I currently can't think of some sort of exception.

Metal has characteristics that make it less dynamic and less smooth already, so it needs special care to create and preserve it and not make it worse. But it is treated the opposite. Distorted guitars and hard drum hits? FLATLINE THAT WAVEFORM AND CLIP IT. It should be treated like classical music instead.


Those albums you listed have all the characteristics I was talking about. Blackwater Park the kick drum sounds like a splash in a puddle and I hear it pushing against some sort of compression artefact. It's a VERY loud master. I saw Opeth live and it was the best I have heard them. It was honest and natural. I saw meshuggah live as well and it sounded better than any recording they have ever done there in the room even though the feed from the board might not have been impressive, in the venue it was like a religious experience with the sound and lightshow.

I honestly am not aware of any exceptions to what the standard is. I think it is difficult to even imagine what things could sound like if they weren't done that way. I think there's an issue where there is a lot going on and they think it's important for everything to translate on every system. They make decisions as though absolutely every last thing has to be represented through a phone speaker or terrible car speakers and also has to be the loudest track you've ever heard so everything is just completely flattened and reduced to nothing.

I can crank up other genres and listen very loud and feel fine, but with metal I'm in the bottom 5% of my volume control wincing.

To be fair, back when I listened to music on car speakers, metal did cut through on them for what the speakers were. Metal and audiophile gear are just truly conflicting interests to have for me personally.
 
May 30, 2021 at 9:27 AM Post #553 of 2,958
I there's quite a big difference in the length of the head strap between my leather free 2020 LCD-2 and 2021 leather LCD-X. I've had headbands stretch over time, but never like this from new. Audeze are sending a replacement, so good support as always.
I find the pusher pads on the LCD-2s quite a bit more comfortable, but I have a feeling that it may be partly due to the head strap on the Xs throwing off the balance.
One positive thing about the Xs is that they're now lighter than the 2s: 612g vs 637g
20210529_234559~2.jpg
 
May 30, 2021 at 12:22 PM Post #554 of 2,958
I there's quite a big difference in the length of the head strap between my leather free 2020 LCD-2 and 2021 leather LCD-X. I've had headbands stretch over time, but never like this from new. Audeze are sending a replacement, so good support as always.
I find the pusher pads on the LCD-2s quite a bit more comfortable, but I have a feeling that it may be partly due to the head strap on the Xs throwing off the balance.
One positive thing about the Xs is that they're now lighter than the 2s: 612g vs 637g
20210529_234559~2.jpg
708g to 612g is quite an improvement indeed. I am yet to hear the sound differences though.

The stretch of the headband leather by time is indeed an issue. I punctured new holes on my leather strap and ordered a new strap from Audeze when I sold my latest LCD.
 
May 30, 2021 at 12:37 PM Post #555 of 2,958
I there's quite a big difference in the length of the head strap between my leather free 2020 LCD-2 and 2021 leather LCD-X. I've had headbands stretch over time, but never like this from new. Audeze are sending a replacement, so good support as always.
I find the pusher pads on the LCD-2s quite a bit more comfortable, but I have a feeling that it may be partly due to the head strap on the Xs throwing off the balance.
One positive thing about the Xs is that they're now lighter than the 2s: 612g vs 637g
20210529_234559~2.jpg
How do you find the LCD-2 and LCD-X compare?
 

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