[Deaj]

Good question, il try my best to answer but forgive me if things dont seem clear, winding down after a busy day...

Cups generally fall into 2 categories (referring to grado style only), short and long. The larger/longer the cup the more damping on the drivers resonant peak in the midbass, for V8’s i believe this is around 80hz. Without an airtight seal the damping effect is lost and muddy unbalanced bass is the result, as you experienced. The volume of the earcup and the resistance of the metal mesh work as an air spring to kind of limit excursion of the driver at resonance, the same way loudspeaker cabinets react with their drivers. So you have this delicate handshake between cup and driver. Going too far in any direction, smaller or larger, tends to disrupt this damping effect.

Which size is best? I think Grado figured this out and since our drivers are reverse compatable with theirs then their designs still hold true. Anything similar to grado dimensions will give you good results.

As for wood material, im going to go agaisnt popular opinion and say its mostly cosmetic. The cup volume/dimensions have the greatest effect, followed by pad style, then wood type being last. Ideally you want a soft porous wood but all of the woods commonly used are fine.

Recently did a V8 build for a freind using rholupat rosewood cups and the results were fantastic. You do have to modify the cup slightly, to seal off the excess cable cut-out, but im still hearing about how good they turned out.

So TLDR, any grado style cup works, larger RS1 cups have more control in the bass due to damping, but must be properly sealed. Wood types mostly cosmetic.

Thank you for taking the time to respond with such detail. I had been looking at the Rholupat Vanquish (a light colored rosewood variant) as a possible candidate for some time so I decided to place an order a few minutes ago. I'm looking forward to having a listen once assembled.

One last question for you if you don't mind: how much effect does the cups weight/mass have on the drivers sound/performance?

Thanks again for the information and, more importantly, the V8 drivers. They have turned a curiosity project build into my favorite headphone, and by a good margin.

 

[les_garten]

@Rhydon

I have 2 sets of drivers V7 and the V8 I just ordered this week. Thanx for the sale!

I have a set of 325is cups and a Longish set of wood cups I got from JMoney some time back.

Any guidance on which drivers would be happiest where?

 

[Rhydon]

One last question for you if you don't mind: how much effect does the cups weight/mass have on the drivers sound/performance?

Thanks again for the information and, more importantly, the V8 drivers. They have turned a curiosity project build into my favorite headphone, and by a good margin.

Mass/Weight have a great deal to do with the resonance point of the earcup as a solid structure, but the amount of mass you would have to add to get noticeable results would be far greater then what is practical for a wearable device.

Most of the woods are low mass / high damping which is ideal for acoustics. The low mass keeps the resonance modes higher and the damping decreases settling time and broadens mode peaks. The other option would be high mass high damping but again hard to implement a lead-lined earcup for headphone use.

Moving the resonant points up or down a little by changing the material properties has little bennefit. Your earcup is still resonating but just at a different audible frequency. Its far more bennefitial to dampen the resonances that are heard. This is where materials like Dynamat come in handy. They are shear damping materials which are effective in industrial settings- ie cars and sheet metals which resonate quite badly.

Are materials like Dynamat effective for wood earcups? I would suspect to some degree but without actual tests i would be hesitant to say how noticable differences would be. Keep in mind that adding Dynamat to the earcup will alter the volume of the rear chamber slightly so double-blind tests would need to accommodate the volume difference. If you are out for extracting the last bits of performance then Dynamat would be worth considering.

Glad to be of help in your journey and im really glad you are enjoying the V8's.

 

[Rhydon]

@Rhydon

I have 2 sets of drivers V7 and the V8 I just ordered this week. Thanx for the sale!

I have a set of 325is cups and a Longish set of wood cups I got from JMoney some time back.

Any guidance on which drivers would be happiest where?

Your welcome, we try to do a sale at least once a year to help new enthusiasts dip into the world of DIY. It also helps our previous customers who want an extra pair or two to experiment with. There was a lot of adoption this time around which was nice to see.

The V7's were great drivers but the V8's are very different. The coating we use changed completely and as result the diaphragm behaves much differently. I would say keep the V7's for experimental builds and rough designs, put the V8's in the more serious / final enclosures. You will get better performance out of the V8's.

 

[Deaj]

Mass/Weight have a great deal to do with the resonance point of the earcup as a solid structure, but the amount of mass you would have to add to get noticeable results would be far greater then what is practical for a wearable device.

Most of the woods are low mass / high damping which is ideal for acoustics. The low mass keeps the resonance modes higher and the damping decreases settling time and broadens mode peaks. The other option would be high mass high damping but again hard to implement a lead-lined earcup for headphone use.

Moving the resonant points up or down a little by changing the material properties has little bennefit. Your earcup is still resonating but just at a different audible frequency. Its far more bennefitial to dampen the resonances that are heard. This is where materials like Dynamat come in handy. They are shear damping materials which are effective in industrial settings- ie cars and sheet metals which resonate quite badly.

Are materials like Dynamat effective for wood earcups? I would suspect to some degree but without actual tests i would be hesitant to say how noticable differences would be. Keep in mind that adding Dynamat to the earcup will alter the volume of the rear chamber slightly so double-blind tests would need to accommodate the volume difference. If you are out for extracting the last bits of performance then Dynamat would be worth considering.

Glad to be of help in your journey and im really glad you are enjoying the V8's.

Great information, thanks!

My question regarding mass/weight was based on what was a flawed assumption that either were contributing factors in how or why my SR325/V8 build results were so different from a more recent SR60/V8 build (plastic grills replaced with grill using the same stainless wire mesh in my SR325 cups) when both are lined in the same polycarbonate with the same length/volume air space. Per your answer to an earlier question cup sealing in the SR60/V8 build is necessary before any such comparison would be useful.

With that, are the SR325 aluminum cups contributing to the sound if completely lined with polycarbonate (driver sleeves and spacers)?

 

[Rhydon]

With that, are the SR325 aluminum cups contributing to the sound if completely lined with polycarbonate (driver sleeves and spacers)?

Its possible the extra weight of the SR325 cups could cause the headphone to sit differently compared to a lighter SR60e build. The heavy aluminum cups may compress the pads differently which could give a different sound... The main differences between the sub-SR325 line and SR325 are mainly driver alterations. The aluminum cups are mostly cosmetic.

 

[Deaj]

Its possible the extra weight of the SR325 cups could cause the headphone to sit differently compared to a lighter SR60e build. The heavy aluminum cups may compress the pads differently which could give a different sound... The main differences between the sub-SR325 line and SR325 are mainly driver alterations. The aluminum cups are mostly cosmetic.

Once again, thank you for the helpful information!

 

[lumohomo06]

This is amazing!

 

[Deaj]

Tis but a scratch! Sorry to hear about the fall Deaj, hope they take good care of you.

...oh, and I dug the Python / Holy Grail reference.

 

[Deaj]

So, I was done building custom Grado's for myself given how fantastic the SR325/V8 headphone sounds.

...but it's difficult to be 'done' with something so gratifying.

While ordering wood cups (Rholupat Vanquish) for a Magnum V8 based woody for my friend I decided that a 'woody' Grado would be a nice headphone to have, so I ordered a second pair of the same cups, another pair of Magnum V8 drivers, a tan padded leather Turbulent Labs headband, and another polished aluminum set of rod blocks and gimbals from Concord Custom Labs.

Fun, fun, fun!!

Here are the cups I'm using for both builds:

 

[Rhydon]

Beautiful! Good choice on the extras. We have a few builds here with custom aluminum gimbals and they really complete the design.
If i could suggest one thing its seal that large cable cutout on the Rholupat cups. I know you are well aware of the benefits

I will be uploading a new guide for V8 driver install on our site soon. We'll show both the BlueTac and Woodglue options- this should help people get the best out of their build. Il make sure to post the link here when its ready.

 

[Deaj]

Thanks Rhydon! I look forward to reading the guide when it's ready.

 

[les_garten]

Beautiful! Good choice on the extras. We have a few builds here with custom aluminum gimbals and they really complete the design.
If i could suggest one thing its seal that large cable cutout on the Rholupat cups. I know you are well aware of the benefits

I will be uploading a new guide for V8 driver install on our site soon. We'll show both the BlueTac and Woodglue options- this should help people get the best out of their build. Il make sure to post the link here when its ready.

Could you post back here when you put that up? I've been doing mine as a shadetree Headphone builder, don't really know what I'm doing!

 

[Rhydon]

Will do

 

[fleasbaby]

Beautiful! Good choice on the extras. We have a few builds here with custom aluminum gimbals and they really complete the design.
If i could suggest one thing its seal that large cable cutout on the Rholupat cups. I know you are well aware of the benefits

I will be uploading a new guide for V8 driver install on our site soon. We'll show both the BlueTac and Woodglue options- this should help people get the best out of their build. Il make sure to post the link here when its ready.

I guess this explains why I find myself preferring foam-fit as opposed to press-fit. It provides a seal between cup and driver too, though likely not as good a seal as glue or Blu-tack. I found some black silicon I'm going to experiment with when I get a chance. Should technically be easier to remove than wood glue, and cleaner than Blu-tack.

@Rhydon if you need a hand with the guide, let me know. There is that wiki published a while back that covers all aspects of modding that I updated (could do with another revision). That might be helpful.