[meltdown100]

Thanks wje.  I asked Martin the same question and he indicated that cup depth would affect bass, though not dramatically.  Grado wood cups on the RS2 and higher models do stick out a bit - I'm sure they tuned the opening diameter with the length of the 'barrel' to get the sound they wanted.
 
Martin has a really low profile walnut cup shown on his website that I'm thinking about ordering for the magnums, that barely stick out past the gimbal.  I love the way those look plus they should be fairly light even with a dense wood.  He's got too many really nice styles - and they all look great, I could easily buy several pairs which means I then have to buy the Grados to go with them...  
 
I like my SR60 pair a lot and have gotten kind of attached to them, so I think I'll build a set for the Magnums from scratch.  And then I'll stop.
 
This must be how women must feel about shoes.  That's what I'll tell my wife when she sees how much money I've spent on Grado cups, headbands & drivers...  "No honey, one pair is not good enough".  

 

[meltdown100]

Chris - Not a bad idea, I'm gonna try it out right now.  I'll leave the single layer I have under the screen in place and add a layer then 2 over the cups on the outside.  I would expect too much airflow restriction would do bad things...  I'll report back shortly.

 

[wje]

Quote:

Martin has a really low profile walnut cup shown on his website that I'm thinking about ordering for the magnums, that barely stick out past the gimbal.  I love the way those look plus they should be fairly light even with a dense wood.

 
When you're going with the low-profile version of the cup, it will take a liberated driver, right?  they are not just "slip-on" cups, correct?  Surprisingly, you might be quite happy with the headphones that you'll assemble with some nice cups and the Magnum drivers.  I know where I've landed just recently with the various items, it's a form of content that I'm feeling - something that hasn't been there in a while.  So, it's a good feeling.
 
Not only did I located that used pair of Grados with the Bloodwood cups that Marty made and I closed the deal this evening, but I had another e-mail conversation with Marty about a pair of cups that I'd love to have built on commission.  It looks like something will be going through the lathe in the next 3 or 4 days consisting of Mahogany wood, a mushroom type of top with some design elements tooled into the material to give it some class.  I've opted to receive these unfinished because I love to work with various stains so I can achieve a color or affect that I'm in desire of.  That's part of the fun for me - finishing off the cups myself to make them unique just a bit more - even though they're quite unique in the way Marty really doesn't do two cups alike.
 
 

 

[wje]

Quote:

Chris - Not a bad idea, I'm gonna try it out right now.  I'll leave the single layer I have under the screen in place and add a layer then 2 over the cups on the outside.  I would expect too much airflow restriction would do bad things...  I'll report back shortly.

If you're looking for some awesome fabric to cover some of the holes back up on the backs of the drivers, look under your box spring of your bed.  Seriously.  That dark grey think fabric is almost the same consistency of the regular material that Grado uses to cover those holes when the drivers are built.
 

 

[meltdown100]

Quote:

 
When you're going with the low-profile version of the cup, it will take a liberated driver, right?  they are not just "slip-on" cups, correct?  Surprisingly, you might be quite happy with the headphones that you'll assemble with some nice cups and the Magnum drivers.  I know where I've landed just recently with the various items, it's a form of content that I'm feeling - something that hasn't been there in a while.  So, it's a good feeling.
 
Not only did I located that used pair of Grados with the Bloodwood cups that Marty made and I closed the deal this evening, but I had another e-mail conversation with Marty about a pair of cups that I'd love to have built on commission.  It looks like something will be going through the lathe in the next 3 or 4 days consisting of Mahogany wood, a mushroom type of top with some design elements tooled into the material to give it some class.  I've opted to receive these unfinished because I love to work with various stains so I can achieve a color or affect that I'm in desire of.  That's part of the fun for me - finishing off the cups myself to make them unique just a bit more - even though they're quite unique in the way Marty really doesn't do two cups alike.
 
 

Thanks for mentioning that, I definitely don't want the slip-on type and I'll be sure to mention that when I put my order together.
 
You've got the bug in a bad way, and I can relate.  I was actually looking at small lathes on amazon yesterday, and was actually considering getting one before I woke up and realized there was no way I would have enough time to get into cutting cups on my own. 
 

 

[chrislangley4253]

Quote:

 
When you're going with the low-profile version of the cup, it will take a liberated driver, right?  they are not just "slip-on" cups, correct?  Surprisingly, you might be quite happy with the headphones that you'll assemble with some nice cups and the Magnum drivers.  I know where I've landed just recently with the various items, it's a form of content that I'm feeling - something that hasn't been there in a while.  So, it's a good feeling.
 
Not only did I located that used pair of Grados with the Bloodwood cups that Marty made and I closed the deal this evening, but I had another e-mail conversation with Marty about a pair of cups that I'd love to have built on commission.  It looks like something will be going through the lathe in the next 3 or 4 days consisting of Mahogany wood, a mushroom type of top with some design elements tooled into the material to give it some class.  I've opted to receive these unfinished because I love to work with various stains so I can achieve a color or affect that I'm in desire of.  That's part of the fun for me - finishing off the cups myself to make them unique just a bit more - even though they're quite unique in the way Marty really doesn't do two cups alike.
 
 

the magnums are indeed nice in wood. Also, I love the different finish you put on the cups Wayne.. If I ever decide to get another set of woodies, they will be lathed by martin, and stained by you.. At least, they would be if I could have it my way. 
 


Quote:

If you're looking for some awesome fabric to cover some of the holes back up on the backs of the drivers, look under your box spring of your bed.  Seriously.  That dark grey think fabric is almost the same consistency of the regular material that Grado uses to cover those holes when the drivers are built.
 

Funny you mention that.. I actually tried the fabric from under my bed. I didn't think it blocked enough air myself. it was off an older mattress though, I don't think it was quite the same material that you used. I had VERY good luck using weavers cloth, I highly recommend that stuff and it's dirt cheap. If not weavers cloth, something like a cheap hankerchief will give you about the same material. 
 

 

[meltdown100]

Tried rubberbanding a couple of layers of the black felt over my cups - holding it there with my hands wasn't working well because I was pressing the cups into my ears which definitely changes the sound.
 
A tiny difference, if any.  I felt to my ears as though the bass output was just slightly reduced, but not by a significant amount.  I'm curious what the bass would sound like if I covered my 2 open holes back up but then I like the sound I have with these so I'll probably leave them be.  I plan on keeping these, so it's cool that they have some character - if the bass turns out to be more 'polite' on the magnums (which is what I'm expecting) I can always slap these on to get some thud.
 
Chris - what's the difference between that weaver fabric and muslin, is it more or less porous?  I though the muslin was a pretty good consistency.
 
And sorry, I know I'm taking the thread somewhat off-topic from the Magnums with my incessant modding talk.  

 

[chrislangley4253]

Quote:

Tried rubberbanding a couple of layers of the black felt over my cups - holding it there with my hands wasn't working well because I was pressing the cups into my ears which definitely changes the sound.
 
A tiny difference, if any.  I felt to my ears as though the bass output was just slightly reduced, but not by a significant amount.  I'm curious what the bass would sound like if I covered my 2 open holes back up but then I like the sound I have with these so I'll probably leave them be.  I plan on keeping these, so it's cool that they have some character - if the bass turns out to be more 'polite' on the magnums (which is what I'm expecting) I can always slap these on to get some thud.
 
Chris - what's the difference between that weaver fabric and muslin, is it more or less porous?  I though the muslin was a pretty good consistency.
 
And sorry, I know I'm taking the thread somewhat off-topic from the Magnums with my incessant modding talk.  

it's similar to the muslin, you can just get it in black, and it's very consistent, unlike the different types of muslin i looked at. 

 

[stratocaster]

Quote:

Thanks wje.  I asked Martin the same question and he indicated that cup depth would affect bass, though not dramatically.  Grado wood cups on the RS2 and higher models do stick out a bit - I'm sure they tuned the opening diameter with the length of the 'barrel' to get the sound they wanted.

 
I found that the greatest impact on bass performance if you exempt hole punching is to be expected by things I am ranking as follows:
 

• pad choice
• use of distancers and G-cushs as in MS1000/MS Ultimate mod   --> Thread  
  In this thread nickchen and others reported they did not achieve any positive sound effects by extending the cup depth, while the use of distancers and thus creating an increase air chamber between drivers and ear did
• wood shells

 
Personally I also did not notice any effect of wood mass or cup depth on the bass. If I had, I would have designed my own cups like that. Instead I went for an RS1 clone-like style and I am happy with that. Although I must say that I recently made a very low-profile olive cup I am planning to use as a portable Grado or Magnum, because you can sometimes get tired of the rather bulky wood antennae...
 
 
 

 

[wje]

Quote:

 
I found that the greatest impact on bass performance if you exempt hole punching is to be expected by things I am ranking as follows:
 

• pad choice
• use of distancers and G-cushs as in MS1000/MS Ultimate mod   --> Thread  
  In this thread nickchen and others reported they did not achieve any positive sound effects by extending the cup depth, while the use of distancers and thus creating an increase air chamber between drivers and ear did
• wood shells

 
Personally I also did not notice any effect of wood mass or cup depth on the bass. If I had, I would have designed my own cups like that. Instead I went for an RS1 clone-like style and I am happy with that. Although I must say that I recently made a very low-profile olive cup I am planning to use as a portable Grado or Magnum, because you can sometimes get tired of the rather bulky wood antennae...
 

Your three points, in regards to the headphones themselves have a lot of great logic to them, and have been summarized quite well.  However, as an extension to that, I think it's worthy to mention to the community here a few words about source components, too.  iPods can drive Grado headphones with ease.  Grados are very efficient headphones, but to achieve great sound, you have to give them some current, too.  For quite a time, I used my Sony Walkman and FiiO E11 amp, that I thought was a pretty good combo - or, at least it was for portability and provided about 12 hours of music capability based on the battery life for the amp.  However, being a tweaker, I never give up.  I have two Squeezebox devices in my home for music.  I was running them through modern-day home theater receivers.  The receivers would do OK, but were a bit "thin" when it would come to sound.  This told me that the receivers were not capably handling the output from the Squeezebox devices, which feature Burr-Brown DACs in them.  This then led me to go full circle and look at the receivers - vintage receivers that I grew up with as a child and when I was a young adult.  Now, that I have these 35 year old devices back in the sound chain, I feel that I'm capably delivering my Grados / Magnums / or whatever to their highest potential.
 
I also realize there is a great market for some fine headphone amplifiers.  I haven't had an opportunity to the use of an amp in the $300  - $500 range, but would love to dabble at some point with said devices to see where my impressions sit after trying 3 or 4 of them.
 
Finally, I didn't want my follow-up to distract from Stratocaster's fine listing of headphone "priorities" in order to get great sound.  But, I did want to say what had to be said since we do have a lot of junior members often joining the ranks here and can have a lot of questions and information swirling around in their mind.  Hopefully, between what Stratocaster has provided and some comments on source gear, some of those open and spinning questions now have answers.
 

 

[xaval]

Grados need current indeed. Get an amp that can deliver it in spades and you'll be rewarded. Besides the current get a well built amp and the journey should be over as long as it colors the sound right (to your ears) for the Grados.
 
Vintage receivers are the quick win ticket as they are readily available used; they have the current with few exceptions (and nobs); they are also cheap unless you look into models and brands that are sought after by collectors. Back in the day quality sound did matter, way more than the youth of today realize as most of the new stuff tends to be a PCB with cheapo components and a shiny case - sound matters too, obviously, but back in the day we would spend days or weeks at our local dealer listening and comparing stuff. These days you check the interwebs and press a couple of buttons, and listen to after.
 
 

 

[stratocaster]

Sure, amps are another big world out there. Yet I am mostly listening straight from my Ipod or Cowon. Every once in a while I make use of my Mini3 or Little Dot1+. I don't think that I am ready to invest what is necessary for a top amp. Vintage gear might be an option, the looks of some of the receivers are awesome, and the sound most probably as well.
What is great about Grados or Magnums is that they perform that nicely without amping. For sure amping will lift them up even more, but how noticeably? What price does one have to pay for really noticeable improvement? $200 or $2000? For 5% to 10 % improvement? I would not invest $300 for a modern amp getting me 5% of improvement. I might invest the sum for some really cool looking vintage amp, though.
 
 
 

 

[sluker]

As with all audio gear, the cost to benefit of improvement is in the ear of the beholder and the law of diminishing returns is ever present. 
For me I find the Magnums and Grados improve enough with amplification to warrant spending money on them. My v3.5 improve across the board with good amplification. The key, as others have said, is quality current. For this your best bet in $ terms is a SS vintage amp from 75 to 80. There are plenty of options and unlike orthos, you can get good results with 30 to 50 watts.  The key is to test them with your headphones before you buy (local) and make sure there is a low noise floor, because the Magnums pick up all artifacts and impurities and it will ruin your listening experience.
 
If you have money to spend, a good tube amp can do wonders with the Magnums by emphasizing the musicality. The problem is that you have to get something with high current (most are not) which is not cheap and the tubes need to be quiet (not easy to find without spending on a matched and tested pair). But so far the nicest music I have heard out of my HF-2's (sold) and Magnums has been from my LF339 with RCA-6SN7G's and TS EF-80's. One draw back is that the LF339 runs extremely hot which amplifies the tube hum after it warms up.
 
That said, to me a good source is just as important if not more so, I love my Magnums with my Sflo2 and FLAC files, and I would love to hear them with a HM602 or a high end DAC.
Quote:

Sure, amps are another big world out there. Yet I am mostly listening straight from my Ipod or Cowon. Every once in a while I make use of my Mini3 or Little Dot1+. I don't think that I am ready to invest what is necessary for a top amp. Vintage gear might be an option, the looks of some of the receivers are awesome, and the sound most probably as well.
What is great about Grados or Magnums is that they perform that nicely without amping. For sure amping will lift them up even more, but how noticeably? What price does one have to pay for really noticeable improvement? $200 or $2000? For 5% to 10 % improvement? I would not invest $300 for a modern amp getting me 5% of improvement. I might invest the sum for some really cool looking vintage amp, though.
 
 
 

 

 

[meltdown100]

As your headphones get better, the impact that your source and signal chain components have on your SQ goes up.  My Mini3 sounds decent enough for what it is, a compact portable amplifier.  And it sounds significantly better to my ears than just 5% over a headphone jack from an ipod.
 
The Purity Audio KICAS I have on my desktop is better than the Mini3, and again by a lot more than 5%.  And it can be gotten in the for sale thread for around $200, it's a very good clean-sounding solid state amp.  Sadly it is not being made anymore.  You can buy a lot of very good amps around $200, especially used.  Heck, the $40 Bravo V2 that I got on ebay sounds pretty respectable after I threw a Sylvania tube in it.
 
This kind of thing gets endlessly discussed in head-fi as would be expected.  The bottom line is that you can put $5000 worth of great gear in front of a crappy set of headphones and you will not get great sound.  But once you have a decent pair of headphones (all Grados even stock fit this description) then you start to really taste the difference between an okay DAC vs. a really good DAC, likewise with amplifiers.  If you aren't getting real improvement from your amp then I wonder what else in the chain is weak.  Are your files lossless encoded, etc. etc.
 
And for anybody who is using anything less than 320kbps (okay, maybe 256kbps) for their music files - any money spent beyond the DAP and cheaper headphones is probably wasted.
 
Some folks will be very satisfied just using an ipod with decent portables or earbuds, nothing wrong with that.  I wasn't.  I DIY modded my ipod, use a LOD with black gate caps, and feed that into a Mini3, then into my ER4S.  That setup cost a decent amount of $$$ and effort but I had to do it.  5% better than a stock ipod?  Try 50% better.  Admittedly the ER4S needs to be amped due to having a higher impedance, it sounds very flat otherwise.  But every decent headphone will improve to some degree with good amplification. 
 
My opinion, everybody hears different.

 

[Grev]

*clapping.gif*
 
Quote:

 
I found that the greatest impact on bass performance if you exempt hole punching is to be expected by things I am ranking as follows:
 

• pad choice
• use of distancers and G-cushs as in MS1000/MS Ultimate mod   --> Thread  
  In this thread nickchen and others reported they did not achieve any positive sound effects by extending the cup depth, while the use of distancers and thus creating an increase air chamber between drivers and ear did
• wood shells

 
Personally I also did not notice any effect of wood mass or cup depth on the bass. If I had, I would have designed my own cups like that. Instead I went for an RS1 clone-like style and I am happy with that. Although I must say that I recently made a very low-profile olive cup I am planning to use as a portable Grado or Magnum, because you can sometimes get tired of the rather bulky wood antennae...