Grado Fan Club!
Sep 14, 2012 at 10:48 AM Post #4,516 of 65,599
Quote:
As Brooko said, I didn't say inferior.
The "deal" with any planar radiator (ESP, electret, planar-magnetic/orthodynamic, etc) is that they put out a very uniform "wall" of sound, compared to the conical pattern that will come out of a dynamic cone (which is what you'll find in every Grado ever made). This is a very different presentation on it's own, even if they had the exact same frequency response (which they do not), because of how the sound-wave will interact with your outer and inner ear. So just like how an Ultrasone with S-LOGIC will not image or position audio in the same way as any conventional headphone, neither will any planar radiator. Same thing with speakers - there are plenty of great-sounding speakers that use multiple drivers in various alignments, and there are also a number of planar/dipole models that are also great-sounding. But they produce a very different sonic image because of the difference in how they put sound out.
So not only should you expect to see a large difference in tonal balance (in that, nothing has the same PRaT, tonal balance, etc that a Grado does), but the difference in radiation will also change and influence the sound very heavily. I will tell you that flat-out, if you think your Grado headphones are the best sounding thing since sliced bread, nothing else will get you that same experience except another Grado. They're very unique. I say this to hopefully prevent a lot of dragon chasing - don't waste your time with other manufacturers trying to get "a better sounding Grado" - just get a better Grado. If there's *major* issues you have with Grado headphones (e.g. you hate their tonal balance), don't waste your time buying more expensive Grado models - try something else.
It all ultimately comes down to preference - do you like chocolate or vanilla or perhaps Neapolitan?

 
This is the reason I don't solely depend on silly graphs for sonic impressions. This perhaps explain why I wasn't a huge fan of the LCD-2 signature or blown away off the bat when transitioning from RS-2i. It took some time but I "get it" now but obviously I'm a lot more active on this thread than the LCD-2 one.
 
Again it's very difficult to imagine how an RS-2i should cost $500.. but then it's even more difficult to fathom why the RS-1 is still king to people when compared against all the orthos considering it's bits of wood and some small flimsy drivers. I will never understand what secrets lurks inside that headphone.
 
Sep 14, 2012 at 7:03 PM Post #4,517 of 65,599
Just bought a  pair of SR325i 'phones here on Head-Fi.  The guy is even including a pair of TTVJ flats! :D  They should be here next week.
I'm certainly going to listen to them for a long while as they are, but I plan on doing all the mods to them that are listed in the 60i mod thread. I love tinkering with stuff :)
What DACs are preferred with Grados?  I have a feeling I am eventually going to need one since my PC just has a crappy integrated sound card.
 
Sep 14, 2012 at 7:09 PM Post #4,518 of 65,599
Quote:
Just bought a  pair of SR325i 'phones here on Head-Fi.  The guy is even including a pair of TTVJ flats! :D  They should be here next week.
I'm certainly going to listen to them for a long while as they are, but I plan on doing all the mods to them that are listed in the 60i mod thread. I love tinkering with stuff :)
What DACs are preferred with Grados?  I have a feeling I am eventually going to need one since my PC just has a crappy integrated sound card.

 
Just a heads up - from my own experience (and this is purely my own opinion) .....
 
  • Don't remoce the white cloth mesh from the front of the drivers.  It makes next to zero audible difference & is there for a reason (to stop hair/dirt/grit getting into the drivers).  Leave it intact.
  • Dynamat blob behind the drivers does nothing IMO.  I couldn't hear a difference.
  • Don't go nuts venting the drivers - particularly on the SR325i.  It has some beautiful bass as it is.  In the end I only vented 2 holes in each driver.  Even 1 in each probably would have been enough - I did 2 just for balance).
 
Have fun - you'll enjoy the modding :)
 
Sep 14, 2012 at 7:12 PM Post #4,519 of 65,599
Well... if you read my review of my SR80i you will know I am a big metal-head. From clear crystal vocals like Scorpions to harsh and agressive growls like Opeth.
 
But today I decided to try a song I've loved since I was a kid: Patrick Cowley's Megatronman.
WOW.... just WOW.
 
I can't dance you know, but I was *like this* from dancing at the office.
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Sep 14, 2012 at 8:39 PM Post #4,520 of 65,599
^^^
Thanks for the reply! I see what you're saying with everything. I really enjoy the RS2i's and feel pretty satisfied. Was just curious about what the fuss was with amps and the likes. So would you say an amp is purely for volume gain at it's basics? 


Yes and no regarding "purely for volume gain" - from a technical perspective on paper, yes that's all it does, but that's a bit over-simplified methinks. For example when I had Sennheiser HD 580s, I absolutely would've argued that amp selection made a difference and can back that up with numbers. But with Grados I just don't see the need if you've already got a "thing" that can run them. I assume most people have such a "thing" (but maybe that's in error - my assumption is that everyone has at least a quality receiver, CD player, or PC soundcard (if not all three) on hand).


This is the reason I don't solely depend on silly graphs for sonic impressions. This perhaps explain why I wasn't a huge fan of the LCD-2 signature or blown away off the bat when transitioning from RS-2i. It took some time but I "get it" now but obviously I'm a lot more active on this thread than the LCD-2 one.

Again it's very difficult to imagine how an RS-2i should cost $500.. but then it's even more difficult to fathom why the RS-1 is still king to people when compared against all the orthos considering it's bits of wood and some small flimsy drivers. I will never understand what secrets lurks inside that headphone.


I don't ask and I don't worry about it - they're doing something right and that's what matters to me at the end of the day. I've found that the most over-researched and over-designed headphones ever made are usually able to sit at the table with the RS-1 (but not surpass it), which should have something like "John Grado built this in a cave, OUT OF SCRAPS" stamped on the box (yeah, I'm quoting Iron Man).

I think it's just the result of two very different design philosophies at work. You take a company like Koss or Ultrasone which are VERY engineering driven and who spend A LOT of time trying to figure out how to build a better mouse-trap, and you're comparing their end-product to Grado, who's just standing there with a mallet and his pet cat. Both will get you where you want to go. I think Grado has just figured out a more elegant solution to the problem, because they ask different questions when they sit down to design a headphone and therefore get different answers.




Just bought a  pair of SR325i 'phones here on Head-Fi.  The guy is even including a pair of TTVJ flats! :D  They should be here next week.
I'm certainly going to listen to them for a long while as they are, but I plan on doing all the mods to them that are listed in the 60i mod thread. I love tinkering with stuff :)
What DACs are preferred with Grados?  I have a feeling I am eventually going to need one since my PC just has a crappy integrated sound card.


I'd probably just get a new soundcard for the PC and be done with it. Again, "accessorization" is just a great way to spend money. I've liked Creative for years, and will tell you that my Grados all have sounded fantastic going as far back as the Audigy 2 ZS (never thought to try them with my Live! or AWE, but I assume it'd work fine) - the new Recon card is pretty competent and has a built-in headphone amplifier, I'd probably go that route.
 
Sep 15, 2012 at 12:25 AM Post #4,521 of 65,599
Quote:
The quick'n'dirty (and potentially uncool) response: they won't really change the sound that much. You won't make them not Grados. Now of course you can make big, dramatic changes to the up-stream equipment (and often spend A LOT of money doing so), and see somewhat minor (but certainly measurable and audible) changes downstream, but I just don't see the value there.
If you don't like the way the RS-2 sound, get different headphones. If you like how they sound, enjoy them for what they are, and leave it at that (sort of tangentially: I see this trend so often where someone gets a pair of nice headphones and then wants to "accessorize" it - like people do with iPhones or whatever else, it seems a bit...nutty to me; if you're going to eventually tweak them, at least spend a few hundred hours getting to know them first, so you both know what you really want to tweak, and you have a reference for when you do start making changes (as was mentioned earlier in the mod discussion)). And this isn't meant to be combative - I've just seen a lot of noobies who buy XYZ headphone and will spend 2, 3, 10 times it's price buying cables, amplifiers, etc trying to "fix" that headphone, and at the end of the day that headphone is simply just not a good match for them. This is more meant to try and save you a lot of hair pulling out and cash-sinking.
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Anyways, the community favorites for Grado cans are Melos amplifiers (which are not made anymore, but you can sometimes find them used), Grado's RA-1 (it comes in three versions, the base RA-1 (which is battery driven), the RA-1 AC (which is, as you probably guessed, AC powered) and the RA-1 HG (which is the "High Gain" version and you probably want nothing to do with this guy)), and the Maple Tree Ear+ HD. Basically all of these cost more than the headphones you have (except the battery RA-1). Grados are very easily driven and very stable loads at that, they play nice with all sorts of equipment (I've tried Grados on equipment ranging from mega-cheap to mega-buck, and I just don't see the reason to buy the mega-buck equipment for Grados).This doesn't mean nicer gear does absolutely nothing, but when you're talking a $300-$1000 pair of headphones that sound say, 98% "certified awesome" on equipment that costs less than, or as much as, they do, and say, 99% "certified awesome" on equipment that costs more than a new BMW...I don't know, I can't justify that. I'm sure someone can, but I'd rather put that money into something else (like another pair of cans!). Now if you have a lot of other "stuff" that benefits from the extra gear (e.g. you have an entire home theater and the headphones are just yet another gadget in there), then yeah it can start to make sense. This isn't ALL headphones either - Grados are in that rare trifecta of "comfy, good sounding, and versatile" imho. There are some cans that "care" more, but very few that seem to "care" less.
Now sure, logic should still apply here - you don't want bum pots or channel imbalance or clipping or whatever else. So if any of that is a problem with your current gear, then yes, upgrade.
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In terms of portable kit (none of the above mentioned units, except the non-AC version of the RA-1, are even possible to be portable, and I would really not suggest taking an RA-1 on the road (the casing will get banged up pretty fast I would expect, and it's not exactly compact (by 1990s standards it was))), there's some nice battery driven units from FiiO, JDS Labs, and so on that you can look into - basically they'll let you make the headphones get louder than they already do with your PC or mobile phone, but if that isn't a problem (I doubt it is), I'd probably save the $50-$100 there too. They also mean more stuff to lug around, which may or may not be something you want to entertain. I'm not at all a fan of portable amps for home use - if you're going to buy an amp, buy an amp.
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Also, welcome to the club!
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At the risk of beeing viewed as ''uncool'',i agree with this post 100%,altough i respect peoples who modify or ''accessorize'' they're headphones,i don't.I do have a Musical Fidelity X-CAN V-2 amp that i'd bought back when i had my Senns HD600,but since all my cans are Grados now,i don't worry too much about amplification.Am i missing something? maybe,but since i'm very satified,i leave it at that,and enjoy what i have.
 
I'm sure some might see this as a sin,but i often drive my GS/PS/HP1000 straight from the headphone outputs of my vintage Yamaha CA-610II or my Marantz 2220B with very satisfying results,and just in case you're wondering,no,the bass and treble are not set at 0,heck i even use the loudness button sometimes.
 
Sep 15, 2012 at 1:30 AM Post #4,522 of 65,599
At the risk of beeing viewed as ''uncool'',i agree with this post 100%,altough i respect peoples who modify or ''accessorize'' they're headphones,i don't.I do have a Musical Fidelity X-CAN V-2 amp that i'd bought back when i had my Senns HD600,but since all my cans are Grados now,i don't worry too much about amplification.Am i missing something? maybe,but since i'm very satified,i leave it at that,and enjoy what i have.

I'm sure some might see this as a sin,but i often drive my GS/PS/HP1000 straight from the headphone outputs of my vintage Yamaha CA-610II or my Marantz 2220B with very satisfying results,and just in case you're wondering,no,the bass and treble are not set at 0,heck i even use the loudness button sometimes.


MMM. Yamaha *AND* Marantz *AND* Grado. MMMM.

I think we can be BFFs now. :beerchug:
 
Sep 15, 2012 at 3:27 AM Post #4,523 of 65,599
Quote:
 
At the risk of beeing viewed as ''uncool'',i agree with this post 100%,altough i respect peoples who modify or ''accessorize'' they're headphones,i don't.I do have a Musical Fidelity X-CAN V-2 amp that i'd bought back when i had my Senns HD600,but since all my cans are Grados now,i don't worry too much about amplification.Am i missing something? maybe,but since i'm very satified,i leave it at that,and enjoy what i have.
 
I have modified Grados but I think my unmodified MS2 are my favorites.
 
I'm sure some might see this as a sin,but i often drive my GS/PS/HP1000 straight from the headphone outputs of my vintage Yamaha CA-610II or my Marantz 2220B with very satisfying results,and just in case you're wondering,no,the bass and treble are not set at 0,heck i even use the loudness button sometimes.
 
All headphones benefit from good amplification but the Grados are very easy to please, which makes them easy to love. 

 
Sep 15, 2012 at 5:14 AM Post #4,524 of 65,599
Sep 15, 2012 at 1:08 PM Post #4,527 of 65,599
Well I made it to a store today to try out the rs1, ps500, hifiman 400 and Shure something or others. The worst was the hifiman's for my ears. Great bass but the guitars and vocals were too laid back. Loved true RS-1's the most but the bass isn't really there. If I could get the bass of the hifiman on top of everything else the RS-1's give me.
 
Sep 15, 2012 at 1:19 PM Post #4,528 of 65,599
Quote:
Well I made it to a store today to try out the rs1, ps500, hifiman 400 and Shure something or others. The worst was the hifiman's for my ears. Great bass but the guitars and vocals were too laid back. Loved true RS-1's the most but the bass isn't really there. If I could get the bass of the hifiman on top of everything else the RS-1's give me.

Let me know.  I've been searching for three years.
 
Good luck with that.
 
Sep 15, 2012 at 1:40 PM Post #4,529 of 65,599
update...
 
I never got my Grado T-Shirt... sad face.. did i get Flaked? or Scammed?
 
Sep 15, 2012 at 1:57 PM Post #4,530 of 65,599
really enjoy PS500 and 80i ( at the moment). I think I gave up on 325i too soon. Not sure but Ps1000 is not doing it for me.
Anybody wants a PS1000? Do not want to give up on it too soon though
 

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