Grado Fan Club!
Aug 11, 2013 at 2:13 PM Post #8,536 of 66,259
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Yeah maybe "awful" was too strong. I'm finding now that CDs and FLACs sound ok from the TEAC and mp3 are overall rubbish with the sr325i (it's where the awful came from probably). I have a FiiO DAC/amp which I use as line out to the receiver and as a headphone amp. They are not "hight-end" but again they are nice little devices built with the sole purpose of audio
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I'll still have to listen a litle more to the receiver with the sr325 to get to know what my prefference is, but I start to think that the receiver might be better than my FiiO amp which was making awful files sounding not that awful and that the more balanced receiver was making awful files sound awful. Something like that.

Yes ,all I listen to is Cd's from a Sony CDP-C801ES or Cd's imported to ALAC from my MBP, and their is still a huge difference with the LD/Schiit.
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yeah, they are both keepers for sure ! and those mullards i spoke of earlier, i have maybe 50?? hours or so on them, great treble, detail, not harsh though, and bright isn't the right word now either,
but i love the sound, hearing a cybal crash slowing fade, very cool ! great instrument separation, kinda 3d like

I saved the info on these tubes after reading that you purchased them, but I have yet to order them , but I will tonight!
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 3:41 PM Post #8,537 of 66,259
Switched back to the Magn/Modi combo today, and I must say it is just as nice a combo as the LD and Modi, nice clear sound, tight bass, nicely detailed and forward which I like. On the other hand I can say that the LD has a richer, warmer, wider sound...but it's nice to have the two different amps to listen too.
I'm refering to the LD using tubes;
Siemens 6AK5W
Voskhod 6J1P-EV 
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 5:21 PM Post #8,538 of 66,259
HD600 has lower distortion numbers, less ringing (sound will be less harsh at high frequencies), better square wave response with the midrange frequencies (meaning that sound is more accurate to the recording without extra treble energy) plus a larger soundstage. It also has a more neutral frequency response, but I feel that Grados skew outside of the neutral response entirely on purpose. 

Doesn’t mean the SR80 isn't enjoyable, but the HD600 has better technical merits


That's what I said! :)
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 7:29 PM Post #8,542 of 66,259
Sometimes you want to hear the truth, sometimes you want embellishment. There’s nothing wrong with recognizing which is which.

I can enjoy both, but you're right, I should know the difference between the two
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 7:51 PM Post #8,543 of 66,259
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what is the truth though? i don't understand the quest for transparency.

 
The first bit. The truth is something that can be quantified - to an extent. we can measure inputs and outputs and compare live performances to reproductions (this can be both quantitative and qualitative).
 
the second bit. Well, that’s personal. My personal journey through speakers and headphones has turned out that I get more enjoyment when the reproduction is more accurate to the source. I appreciate technical achievements and  increases in fidelity because my experience leads me to believe I will enjoy the music more from those devices.
 
Doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy some strongly coloured headphones, too. Like the TH900 or the RS1. But I like that “quest for transparency” because I have enjoyed headphones and speakers more when they get closer to it. I can only assume I’m not alone in this feeling or a big part of this forum wouldn’t be around.
 
YMMV, of course :)
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 7:55 PM Post #8,544 of 66,259
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what is the truth though? i don't understand the quest for transparency.

I don't want to get into a debate, but I still have to question some of the things I read on Head-fi regarding neutrality and transparency.  Few headphones I have heard reveal more micro-detail than Grado's.  The HE-5LE's do, but not as much as I would think comparing a $700 ortho to a $200 dynamic.  Most 'neutral' cans I have heard, Sennheisers included (HD650 and under- I have not heard the HD800), do not and cannot reveal things as well as Grado's.
 
Regarding distortion, if it falls well below human perception, it matters not at all.  And, there are other forms of distortion other than harmonic, which is seriously over-blown IMHO.
 
Now, I have the Alpha from Mr. Speakers on order, and in this case I am looking for transparent and neutral.  But that signature only sounds good on certain recordings and masters, and probably won't be so accommodating with less than stellar material.
 
My experience in the overall audio world is that 'flat' does not sound that great.  It can cost a lot of money for 'meh'
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 8:16 PM Post #8,547 of 66,259
I wrote a review of the Grado SR80I and finding good synergy with it for my blog and I thought that you guys might like it so here it is
 
So this piece is going to serve two functions. The first is going to be to review the Grado SR80I with L-Cush Pads and the second is going to be to write about the importance of synergy.
 
I'll start with the Grado bit. First of all, it's unique. It has a very tiny soundstage (although this improves a bit with L-Cush pads) with its entire goal being to bring as intimate of a presentation as possible to give one the sound signature that they'd get if they were in front row seats at a concert. The ability of this headphone to reproduce vocals is exceptional and they offer a wonderful sweet sound that isn't extremely think or bright but with just enough body. As far as guitars go, this is where we begin to run into some things that can either be an advantage or a massive problem.
 
To start, the SR80I render guitars in an extremely edgy fashion which makes them insanely fatiguing after not very much listening time. The upside of this? Well if you're at a rock concert with front row seats, that's exactly how guitars sound. Edgy, strident, fatiguing, crunchy. It's one case in which they do their job so well that it can either cause you to reach for them to have a nice change of pace from other headphones, or can cause you to recoil in disgust due to how outright offensive they can sound.
 
For you jazz fans, I'd highly recommend these for you as it models horns in a spectacular (and also fatiguing) fashion. They are full bodied on the horns with higher registers (i.e. trumpets etc) but present instruments such as saxophone in an extremely airy smooth fashion that is absolutely terrific. Beware though that the trumpets etc do get fatiguing as with most things on the headphone, they are extremely aggressive.
 
The treble is a similar story. It's extremely bright and fatiguing. Very detailed and very crisp, but very bright. For a couple hours it's tolerable -- fantastic even. But after two hours, you begin to make faces like Tyll did in his Ultrasone Edition 10 review with every single cymbal crash. The brightness and up close presentation is just too much.
 
If you're a fan of strong bass, don't even think about it. They will give you very nice mid bass kick that's tight, and very punchy due to the fact that you can feel the drivers moving (since they are basically sitting directly on top of your ear which makes these horribly uncomfortable) but for things that require sub bass, you can hear it up to a certain frequency threshold, and after that it loses any sense of pitch or impact and just becomes something that you can barely feel. It's not going to give you anything like Denons or modded Fostex T50Rps do where you almost feel as if your brain is being sucked out of your ears due to how strong the sub bass is.
So, so far I haven't given you any reason to buy these headphones. They're extremely uncomfortable, offensive to the ears, and have a tiny soundstage. Why do I use them you ask? Synergy.
 
You see, take away all the parts where I mentioned that the headphone is edgy and fatiguing, and you have a fantastic sounding headphone on your hands. How do you do this? With an amp and dac. Contrary to popular belief, amping is not about volume and a dac's goal is not necessarily to be 100% transparent. It is to create the best synergy in a setup possible with its sound signature. For me, it starts with my dac choice of the ODAC. It is transparent, but compared to other DAC's that I've heard (Fiio E7, DAC Destroyer, Peachtree DAC-It), it's more on the warmer end of neutral. Another area in which the ODAC helps the Grados is that due to the Grado's small soundstage, sometimes imaging can get a bit crowded and messy. The ODAC's large soundstage and excellent detail retrieval enhances the Grado's imaging ability.
 
Now for the amp end of things. If you're planning on getting anything Grado, unless you want a headache, don't get a solid state. I get it. You want something neutral that doesn't alter sound at all via distortion. You want crispness and clarity. For some headphones it makes sense, but in this case all it does is denies you the chance at a purely magical sound that can be obtained through the use of a tube amp. Now which tube amp you ask? Well, if it's something that sounds solid statey, don't bother. It's still not going to tame the savage highs that the Grado produces. If you want something cheap, you can get away with something like a Little Dot I+, but for me, even that didn't do enough to put the Grados onto my regular listening radar. You want something warm sounding. But a warm sounding amp doesn't fit my other headphones so why would I get an amp for only one set of headphones, you say. Well, I wouldn't get an amp for one set of headphones either. At least not until I get enough money to be one of those guys with Stax SR-009s and a Blue Hawaii amp. And a few other setups. And a dedicated speaker room. Anyway I digress. You want a tube amp that can offer a wide variety of sounds to get the best possible synergy with multiple set of headphones and for that purpose, my recommendation is the Project Ember. Let's talk about what it does to the Grados to create the desired synergy.
 
As you may have seen in my Project Ember review (found on my blog along with more content here http://musicandlistening.wordpress.com/2013/08/08/project-ember-review/), it's highly customizable with a wide range of potential sound signatures. Problem is that (surprise surprise) the Grados are still awfully bright with stock settings. What do you do then? The first step is to choose a warmer sounding tube, but for me that still isn't enough. The second step (and most critical) is to bypass the input capacitors and switch to high gain. For reasons beyond my knowledge, switching to high gain, bypassing the input caps, and using a higher output resistance provides a smoother sound and makes the Grados entirely non fatiguing. They're still on the brighter end and guitars still have the edge that people look for when someone buys a set of Grados, but they're smooth. The vocals and sax become even sweeter and airier. Trumpets still are impactful but in a way that's incredibly tolerable and not ringy at all. Bass develops a nice warm roundness that makes it good to listen to for anything that is not electronic. The qualities of this headphone that can make it fantastic begin to surface and the savage beast that violates the listener's ears goes away.
 
Due to the synergy present in this setup, the Grados have gone from a headphone that I only wear for a couple hours at most due to comfort issues and headache inducing treble, to a headphone that I've had on for 6 hours or so today with no fatigue whatsoever. I cannot stress enough that when buying audio equipment, the quality of each individual part is nowhere near as important as what the parts sound like when they are put together.
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 8:18 PM Post #8,548 of 66,259
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OK, here is what you need to do...get a hair dryer and warm up your SR80's. It softens up the glue that holds the driver housing and the plastic outer cup together. Take a ball point pen and poke out 4 of the holes. No need to do all 10 like in the picture, 4 is good enough.
 

 

 
Put your SR80's back together, plug them and give them a listen, then report back.

Any preferred position for the four holes?
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 8:37 PM Post #8,550 of 66,259
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To start, the SR80I render guitars in an extremely edgy fashion which makes them insanely fatiguing after not very much listening time. The upside of this? Well if you're at a rock concert with front row seats, that's exactly how guitars sound. Edgy, strident, fatiguing, crunch. It's one case in which they do their job so well that it can either cause you to reach for them to have a nice change of pace from other headphones, or can cause you to recoil in disgust due to how outright offensive they can sound.
 
 
 
 

Dude, you absolutely nailed it regarding what I know about Grad's and guitars.  Ditto on the 225i, BTW.  I have been searching for the words for a while, but Grado's sound more like a live event than most other headphones I have used.  And most live events aren't that great.  I agree with you so much, that I almost agree with you on the tubes.  Okay, I can't go that far...
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I had an offensively bright moment last week, which I wrote about here.  Checking out Innerfidelity and the Grado Mod thread gave me my fix- electrical tape.  No tubes needed!
 
Pretty accurate review.  Looks like you had fun writing it
 

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