[shotgunshane]

Obvioulsy people have strong opinions and want to give credit to the devices they use and enjoy. For what it's worth, all the balanced portable circuits most of us are discussing aren't really balanced but bridged. Never-the-less balanced is the term that stuck. Not really pertinent to the discussion but fascinating none-the-less. 
 
The point I wanted to make earlier and didn't articulate well is this: If you have $500 to spend, don't just by the device that offers balanced. While balanced on that device may very well sound better than it's single ended option, another $500 device that is single ended only, may offer better overall sound quality. In other words, compare the best of the device to the best of the other device.
 
A particular balanced device isn't inherently better but due to design choices of the board, balanced can help lower noise floor and increase dynamic range of that particular design. The design choices in the next device might have a better noise floor and dynamics than the previous but is only single ended. In other words, a great sounding single ended device will sound better than a mediocre/average sounding balanced device. Could the great sounding single ended device be made better with balanced architecture? Probably but then it might be bigger in size and cost a lot more.  There are always trade offs. 

 

[Mimouille]

do u even have the ak380 ???

I started to loose faith in reading specs and measurements and only trust my ears

as no way on earth does single ended sound better than balanced at least to me

Liking it so much it is for sale.

 

[Sound Eq]

Liking it so much it is for sale.

i like it that much you are right, thats why i put a post about the weak eq in it,
 
like exactly when you comment on ur stuff and first you praise it and then you sell it
 
there is a difference between liking it and adoring it
 
ak380 is a good dap without eq only and even i who adores eq feel that i can listen to the ak380 without eq and liking it, it is a good dap, it does not mean I should keep it though, and if you read i am selling to invest the difference  in buying a high end iem 
 
do i adore the ak380 like i adore the mojo, no and people on this forum know me for my brutal honesty with no sugar coating
 
also i respect that different people like different sound signatures, unlike someone who commented on me asking of a soon to be released dap if it will have eq and started snoring
 
so have nice day

 

[Mimouille]

I do not own the 380. Listened to it and thought it sounded great but had enough to feeding AK as I find their DAPs overpriced.

I never compared the balanced and SE on the 380, didn't make much of a difference to me on the 240. I was just saying it had been measured as being not as good. You can still like its sound better.

I agree with Shane on this. Balanced can sound better vs. SE on a given DAP, but the best sources I have heard were SE, which mean balanced is not necessary, and thus a waste of time and money to me.

 

[Sound Eq]

I do not own the 380. Listened to it and thought it sounded great but had enough to feeding AK as I find their DAPs overpriced.

I never compared the balanced and SE on the 380, didn't make much of a difference to me on the 240. I was just saying it had been measured as being not as good. You can still like its sound better.

I agree with Shane on this. Balanced can sound better vs. SE on a given DAP, but the best sources I have heard were SE, which mean balanced is not necessary, and thus a waste of time and money to me.

you have all the right to not like ak daps, as I myself think its overpriced but its still among the best sounding daps out there only for iems, taking in consideration i did not hear the paw lotoo gold yet

 

[Edric Li]

 
its still among the best sounding daps out there only for iems, taking in consideration i did not hear the paw lotoo gold yet

 
Do it

 

[kkcc]

The point I wanted to make earlier and didn't articulate well is this: If you have $500 to spend, don't just by the device that offers balanced. While balanced on that device may very well sound better than it's single ended option, another $500 device that is single ended only, may offer better overall sound quality. In other words, compare the best of the device to the best of the other device.

Well said SGS. Balanced out is NOT an inherently superior design / feature. I hate to see some consumer being led to believe balanced=always better.

For me (ak240 & hm901) I had flipped flipped between SE vs balance for different IEMs so many times I may also just go back to full time SE to save on my cable hassle.

... the best sources I have heard were SE, which mean balanced is not necessary, and thus a waste of time and money to me.

Been away from HF but good to see you still enjoying the PAW! Maybe I should just get one too. Been mainly using the ak240 with Hugo and waiting for the DAP that can better this (SQ), or a DAP overal package (SQ, size, built, looks, UI, streaming etc) that is significantly better than the 240 but no luck thus far. Having really keep track but are there any other promising contenders on the horizon?

 

[Mimouille]

Been away from HF but good to see you still enjoying the PAW! Maybe I should just get one too. Been mainly using the ak240 with Hugo and waiting for the DAP that can better this (SQ), or a DAP overal package (SQ, size, built, looks, UI, streaming etc) that is significantly better than the 240 but no luck thus far. Having really keep track but are there any other promising contenders on the horizon?

The PAW is the best standalone solution, otherwise, a little rig AK100 + Mojo brings you close to Hugo sound in a very small package. And also in a much more affordable range, I am liking the Aune M2S very much !
 

 

 

 

[Currawong]

 

do u even have the ak380 ???

I started to loose faith in reading specs and measurements and only trust my ears

as no way on earth does single ended sound better than balanced at least to me

From Headfonia:

http://www.headfonia.com/review-astell-kern-ak380-momentary/4/

 
Nathan is a friend and I like his reviews, but because someone measures something with a sound card or ADC doesn't make it valid. It seems everyone and their dog is jumping on the measurement bandwagon these days, and without comprehensive details about how the measurements were obtained and whether they are repeatable and/or independently verified, I feel it is a gross disservice to publish them.

 

[ken6217]

Measurements are meaningless for me. The only thing that is meaningful is actual listening.

 

[x RELIC x]

Nathan is a friend and I like his reviews, but because someone measures something with a sound card or ADC doesn't make it valid. It seems everyone and their dog is jumping on the measurement bandwagon these days, and without comprehensive details about how the measurements were obtained and whether they are repeatable and/or independently verified, I feel it is a gross disservice to publish them.

Well, like I said in my original post, as long as one is enjoying their setup then that's what matters. I was more or less highlighting it to say this in contrast to what was measured as there are many that are thoroughly enjoying the AK380 balanced.

On the flip side, I've been reading all over Head Fi lately that balanced is the only way to go and that, by default, automatically trumps other gear that is single ended. Not entirely true in my experience.

 

[Denzelwng4]

Well, like I said in my original post, as long as one is enjoying their setup then that's what matters. I was more or less highlighting it to say this in contrast to what was measured as there are many that are thoroughly enjoying the AK380 balanced.

On the flip side, I've been reading all over Head Fi lately that balanced is the only way to go and that, by default, automatically trumps other gear that is single ended. Not entirely true in my experience.

Kinda agree on this, did a 1 to 1 comparison on my ak240 SE vs balanced, I end up selling all my balanced and retain the SE's....Why? i find the se set-up to be more fun to listen, with crosstalk and all...
it boils to preference i supposed.

 

[x RELIC x]

Kinda agree on this, did a 1 to 1 comparison on my ak240 SE vs balanced, I end up selling all my balanced and retain the SE's....Why? i find the se set-up to be more fun to listen, with crosstalk and all...
it boils to preference i supposed.

At the risk of derailing the thread I do find balanced out on the AK240 more pleasant with my IEMs than SE on the AK240. That said, I also find the often overlooked newest iteration of the ALO Rx to be fantastic sounding and it's 'only' single ended, and I think I enjoy it more for my tastes than the AK240 amp section (balanced or SE out). The new Rx certainly measures very well (which I didn't know when I bought it) so at least I know I'm not just simply enjoying a preference of tuning.

My point is that I've been reading a lot of posts lately that because of the simple fact that a particular device has a balanced output then that makes it far superior to any single ended output device in its category by default. Seems like a marketing hype contest to me. I'm all about personal preferences, but to slam a great piece of gear just because it isn't balanced kind of grates on my nerves (not picking on anyone, just observing a trend lately).

 

[FidelityCastro]

At the risk of derailing the thread I do find balanced out on the AK240 more pleasant with my IEMs than SE on the AK240. That said, I also find the often overlooked newest iteration of the ALO Rx to be fantastic sounding and it's 'only' single ended, and I think I enjoy it more for my tastes than the AK240 amp section (balanced or SE out). The new Rx certainly measures very well (which I didn't know when I bought it) so at least I know I'm not just simply enjoying a preference of tuning.

My point is that I've been reading a lot of posts lately that because of the simple fact that a particular device has a balanced output then that makes it far superior to any single ended output device in its category by default. Seems like a marketing hype contest to me. I'm all about personal preferences, but to slam a great piece of gear just because it isn't balanced kind of grates on my nerves (not picking on anyone, just observing a trend lately).

Hi @x RELIC x: well said!

This balanced thing is an interesting one. Obviously ridiculous to say that balanced is always better - anyone who feels that way should listen to a Chord Hugo (and I assume Mojo) with pretty much any transport, and it will sound better than a lot of other devices balanced.

However, as per your point above about the AK240, I think that ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, balanced 'can' offer a more enjoyable listening experience than SE. I.e., my Hugo is SE and sounds better than some standalone DAPs using balanced out. But the Hugo (plus a transport) is a much more expensive solution than most DAPs (top AKs excepted).

So perhaps a more fair comparison is to take your example of one DAP with both outputs, or look at two similarly-priced DAPs, one that is only SE and one that also has balanced out, and compare those two offerings for listening enjoyment (I won't say SQ comparison because I realise that's a more technical answer). I'm personally enjoying my Onkyo balanced out by itself or through the balanced out of an ALO CDM more than anything else I've heard. I like a wide soundstage is balanced output for me is a must when I'm spending money on a new toy.

Speaking of numbers, just out of interest, would it matter if you were "simply enjoying a preference of tuning"? This numbers issue is another current flavour on head-fi. I'm all for it - the numbers guys tend to be engineers who create these products in the first place - but it seemed as if you needed the numbers to justify your taste? We respect your thoughts too much to be influenced by the numbers!

 

[MikePortnoy]

A pretty new player, my Opus#1 review has been posted:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/products/the-bit-opus-1-digital-audio-player/reviews/15156