[listen4joy]

Currawong Will you review the Onkyo DP-X1 and rank it here? in okyo thread it get some really good reviews some consider it one of the bestin daps market along with lower price and can compete even with AK380.
 
Mimouille did you hear it and can compare to other high end daps?

 

[Mimouille]

Nope never tried the Onkyo, the form factor is not to my taste.

 

[listen4joy]

maybe not the form, but maybe the sound will (-:

 

[Currawong]

I might see if I can't borrow the Onkyo for review. I do talk to them at the Tokyo shows. 

 

[jasoncd2]

I decided to go with the Paw Gold and got it in a few days ago. Bad news, the wheel / selector is very creaky when pushing down or to the right. At this price especially, I think it will bother me and I need to return it. Otherwise though I was very impressed, and think I'll be ordering another one.

Currawong, not sure where you are located but would be happy to send you my dp-x1 for review.

 

[jrazmar]

@jasoncd2 is the DP-X1 SQ close to that of the Paw Gold?

 

[jasoncd2]

I'm probably biased, but not to my ears. The Onkyo puts out 75mw at unknown resistance single ended, while the PAW puts out 500mw at 32 ohms. That alone likely makes it very hard to compare exactly. I have listened to both with iems and the Onkyo sounded fine generally. I'm much more of a headphone guy though, and don't feel qualified to really make comments there.

Without getting too fancy in description, the PAW is more engaging. It sounds "better" across the range. My main comparison was Onkyo + mojo vs Onkyo + C5 vs PAW with a pair of Dharma, LCD-2 and Hifiman X. The PAW had the superior sound, and was infinitely more convenient in how I want to use a DAP.

Is that because it is that much better, or my volumes weren't matched or its new gadget-itis? The Onkyo looks good on paper to me but just turned out a boring sound to my ears. This was also true with the mojo surprisingly. I think both the Onkyo and Mojo are reviewing well so it may just be my ears.

I need to post in the Onkyo thread, but the 3.5 connector on mine is...oversized? All connectors I've tried are not snug. Visually it looks fine. Maybe a random issue with mine.

Also I will say ergonomically I was not a fan, and in terms of type of DAP I quickly found I am not a fan of full fledged Android for that use. Too fiddly, too much going on. I like simple and focused. Again, probably the minority opinion, and I don't mean to turn you off the device. Just all that added up and soured me on the device.

 

[Deftone]

@jasoncd2
 
Paw Gold or 5000?

 

[jasoncd2]

@jasoncd2

Paw Gold or 5000?

Yeah that is interesting. Considering I shelled out a could-be-considered stupid amount of money for the Gold maybe a scary question? Lol.

I'd have to imagine the 5000 is a better deal. The gold is on Massdrop right now, but even at that price you could get the 5000 and a pair of HD800 for about the same price. Insanity.

I took a trip recently, taking my Onkyo, Mojo and C5. Was not a fan of having a stack. Neither option matched up physically well with the Onkyo and UI was frustrating.

That eliminate the 5000 for me, because I want more power than it provides. I paid a lot for that convenience. If you argued too much paid for that convenience I would not disagree. But I decided it was worth it.

The SNR on the 5000 does worry me. Specs on paper are just that, but I love a black background and the silence between to me means a lot. I was thinking today the 5000 might be a fun second option, to take more on the go with just iems. The SNR made me pause. The AK JR might be a good comparison for that use even though they are very different and the AK is about $200 more. If it was going to be my only device though I think I'd just go for the 5000. Can't think of anything at $300 that interests me more. I think a lot of that goes to the fact that I now trust the 'Lotoo sound' to be pleasing to me and that I know the UI works for me much better than a touch screen.

And believe it's still on Massdrop too if you want to save a few bucks over Amazon.

 

[Mimouille]

From the Mojo thread, confirms what I experienced with DAPs. He is answering to someone saying balanced is necessarily better than SE.

No that simply is not correct! A single ended design, don't right with a large enough voltage swing will easily out perform a balanced output. Balanced designs are used by some designers to overcome inherent limitations within designs. Usually to overcome substrate noise on the chip that shouldn't be there or to increase the output voltage swing of their amplifiers. We don't suffer those limitation or problems so we don't need a dodgy fix for them. Our measurements clearly show this. Sorry to burst you bubble man.

 

[Currawong]

From the Mojo thread, confirms what I experienced with DAPs. He is answering to someone saying balanced is necessarily better than SE.
 

No that simply is not correct! A single ended design, don't right with a large enough voltage swing will easily out perform a balanced output. Balanced designs are used by some designers to overcome inherent limitations within designs. Usually to overcome substrate noise on the chip that shouldn't be there or to increase the output voltage swing of their amplifiers. We don't suffer those limitation or problems so we don't need a dodgy fix for them. Our measurements clearly show this. Sorry to burst you bubble man.

Yup, it's a quagmire. Each type of design has its own trade-offs. There was a big argument between AMB and Benchmark on AMB's forums which goes into it. The Hugo and Mojo aren't quite the same, as their design isn't anything like a regular DAC. It's entirely moot if discussing driving, say, HE1000s, as you need a more powerful amp with them anyway IMO.

 

[Mimouille]

Yup, it's a quagmire. Each type of design has its own trade-offs. There was a big argument between AMB and Benchmark on AMB's forums which goes into it. The Hugo and Mojo aren't quite the same, as their design isn't anything like a regular DAC. It's entirely moot if discussing driving, say, HE1000s, as you need a more powerful amp with them anyway IMO.

What is true is that balanced is not necessarily better.

 

[shotgunshane]

I've come to the same conclusion. Depends on the circuit. Connecting the Cypher Labs -db to the Duet balanced made all the difference in the world. Using the AK240 balanced not so much. I've decided to stick with great sounding single ended stuff. No more annoying connectors to fight with.

 

[Mimouille]

I've come to the same conclusion. Depends on the circuit. Connecting the Cypher Labs -db to the Duet balanced made all the difference in the world. Using the AK240 balanced not so much. I've decided to stick with great sounding single ended stuff. No more annoying connectors to fight with.

The last sentence is my new motto. I had my best cables reterminated to SE and will not deal with balanced again.

 

[Currawong]

Yup, likewise with the cables. I'd be happy if A&K ditched their balanced output and just focused on good headphone drive and sound quality, but I guess the balanced output is one of their main differentiators.