[Eternum]

Well, I must say to my ears Fuze sounds way better than iPod. Have not had a chance to listen to Sony, although many folks praise it.
 
Quote:

Anything sounds better than the Fuze.  I don't know who started the Fuze or Clip craze(dkft?), but clearly its not a very good sounding player if you have heard others(ipods, Sony, Samsung etc..).


 

 

 

[High_Q]

Problem with majority of the people that praise Sansa players is that they probably haven't tried any other DAPs, and would state that its the best thing in the world.  Read the clip+ thread.  I think I'm going to make a poll to find out, if people that like clip+ have tried other players.  I just think Sansa players are crap, there is no resolution to the sound, dull, and muddy.  

 

[kyuuketsuki]

For the price, Sansa players are fantastic. But they aren't comparable to high quality DAPs imo. I used to have one for the gym and jogs. 
 
Quote:

Problem with majority of the people that praise Sansa players is that they probably haven't tried any other DAPs, and would state that its the best thing in the world.  Read the clip+ thread.  I think I'm going to make a poll to find out, if people that like clip+ have tried other players.  I just think Sansa players are crap, there is no resolution to the sound, dull, and muddy.  

 

 

[Ynoskire]

My sister owns a clip +, it indeed sounds really dull. But I don't think you can complain if you're paying 50 pounds for a 8 gb pmp. The problem with the clip + hype is that everybody thinks it's a giant killer, which imo, it isn't.

 

[fallingreason]

Are these opinions of Sansa players with or without Rockbox?  
 
I had a Fuze for quite a while without Rockbox, but once I installed Rockbox and took advantage of all that it offered, it completely change the way my Fuze sounded and it became much more impressive.  Though, I still think there's no way it can compare to the J3.  The hardware is just not there.

 

[dfkt]

Quote:

Anything sounds better than the Fuze.  I don't know who started the Fuze or Clip craze(dkft?), but clearly its not a very good sounding player if you have heard others(ipods, Sony, Samsung etc..).


 

Gotta love such ad hominem posts... I didn't 'start' anything. The Clip/Fuze sounds exactly the same as any other quality player, without EQ or sound enhancements. I did enough volume matched listening tests with Samsungs, Cowons, Sonys, Hifiman, etc to get over the whole nonsensical bias and placebo. Sony A845 and X can't drive multi-armature IEMs properly, Hifiman has rolled off treble - other than that there is no audible difference between the players I've tested.
 
 
Quote:

Problem with majority of the people that praise Sansa players is that they probably haven't tried any other DAPs, and would state that its the best thing in the world.  Read the clip+ thread.  I think I'm going to make a poll to find out, if people that like clip+ have tried other players.  I just think Sansa players are crap, there is no resolution to the sound, dull, and muddy. 

 
Certainly an amusing anecdote, and you probably even believe what you've written there. Good thing is that anyone with half an ear can verify that your claim holds no truth whatsoever.
 
You should really do some in-depth listening tests once, instead of posting such anecdotes in public that have nothing to with the reality of the sound that comes out of various players.
 

 

[Dobrescu George]

and, people. you should read deeper... dfkt, sayed in his review, that clp is one of the best for the price.... and, again, agreed, for the price it really rocks.....

 

[High_Q]

I like to know what your listening impressions is without the looking that the graphs, but from the looks of many posts, you justify your point about no differences in DAPs by graphs.  I understand that there is no other useful justification medium that is universal as our ears are different.  Although, I'm a graph man myself.  It is no lie that you bring up Clip+ when you post RMAA. Based on that and you are a mod on a forum that DAPs are the main topic, I think its reasonable for me to speculate. If you don't hear any differences, thats great, you can save a lot of money.  Personally, If I don't hear any differences, I would go with the cheapest player possible, but I see that you own other DAPs?  I guess user interface, srceen etc.. has much to the value to DAP besides the sound.  I personally would not own Hifiman(thing looks ugly, user interface would be a nightmare, but may have great sound, I would really like to try to break my opinions on it).  It was a great thread you started about the rolloffs, but I've realized after trying different DAPs, I have realized I have to make the judgements by ear, not the graphs.  After trying Sflo:2, a poorly designed DAP(the user interface, not the audio circuit), I got to say my opinion on not very well recognized Chinese brands have changed, it does indeed sound better than other DAPs(I would be interested in seeing some graph comparasons). The user interface on the other hand....  Graphs could be useful at times. About Sansa being a great player for its price, there are other player in that range.  Sound is subjective I know, but IMO, I can't see why there can't be better players in that price range.  Also, I know you are a writer for a website that is called "Anything but Ipod," so I'm not going to be asking your opinions on ipod vs other DAPs, thats for sure.  I think I will start a website called "Ipods and nothing else." 

  I know there are plenty of websites promoting ipod.
 
Quote:

Gotta love such ad hominem posts... I didn't 'start' anything. The Clip/Fuze sounds exactly the same as any other quality player, without EQ or sound enhancements. I did enough volume matched listening tests with Samsungs, Cowons, Sonys, Hifiman, etc to get over the whole nonsensical bias and placebo. Sony A845 and X can't drive multi-armature IEMs properly, Hifiman has rolled off treble - other than that there is no audible difference between the players I've tested.
 
 
 
Certainly an amusing anecdote, and you probably even believe what you've written there. Good thing is that anyone with half an ear can verify that your claim holds no truth whatsoever.
 
You should really do some in-depth listening tests once, instead of posting such anecdotes in public that have nothing to with the reality of the sound that comes out of various players.
 

I don't know how much in-depth listening is qualified for talking about its sound, but I've owned Fuze for a year, just recently purchased it again.  When I had the Fuze for the first time, I haven't even tried other DAPs, still didn't like its sound.  I will have to return the fuze, I got it to try the line out to see if it is the volume amp that kills its sounds..  Don't like Fuze, and never will. 
 
 

 

[Confispect]

Quote:

 I'm a graph man myself.  
 
 I have realized I have to make the judgements by ear, not the graphs. 

 
Awesome.
 
 

 

[juneblaize]

I need one of these bad, but when will the price go down?

 

[macrocheesium]

 
Quote:

I need one of these bad, but when will the price go down?

No one can tell you that but Cowon. The Amazon price used to fluctuate frequently, but it's been the same for a few months now. If you need one for less, you can look for a "like new" J3 in the sales forum.

 

[AmericanPzycho]

I have had my J3 for a few weeks now. I came from a Creative Zen Vision:M (bought it on release day oh so many years ago) and a Sony X-series. I still use the Sony for gym time. The Zen took a crap. The J3 blows them both out of the water. I love the FLAC support and the equalizer rocks. Well worth every penny spent IMO.

 

[Dobrescu George]

j3 rocks!.... 
 
 
sorry, but no one said that in a time now.... and i just wanted to bring back alive this thread!

 

[bmiamihk]

Well my opinion is yes the IPOD is a pretty thing but Pretty doesnt sound good. No way a Ipod will match a cheaper Cowon in any area except for looks or ease of use.
 
Quote:

I like to know what your listening impressions is without the looking that the graphs, but from the looks of many posts, you justify your point about no differences in DAPs by graphs.  I understand that there is no other useful justification medium that is universal as our ears are different.  Although, I'm a graph man myself.  It is no lie that you bring up Clip+ when you post RMAA. Based on that and you are a mod on a forum that DAPs are the main topic, I think its reasonable for me to speculate. If you don't hear any differences, thats great, you can save a lot of money.  Personally, If I don't hear any differences, I would go with the cheapest player possible, but I see that you own other DAPs?  I guess user interface, srceen etc.. has much to the value to DAP besides the sound.  I personally would not own Hifiman(thing looks ugly, user interface would be a nightmare, but may have great sound, I would really like to try to break my opinions on it).  It was a great thread you started about the rolloffs, but I've realized after trying different DAPs, I have realized I have to make the judgements by ear, not the graphs.  After trying Sflo:2, a poorly designed DAP(the user interface, not the audio circuit), I got to say my opinion on not very well recognized Chinese brands have changed, it does indeed sound better than other DAPs(I would be interested in seeing some graph comparasons). The user interface on the other hand....  Graphs could be useful at times. About Sansa being a great player for its price, there are other player in that range.  Sound is subjective I know, but IMO, I can't see why there can't be better players in that price range.  Also, I know you are a writer for a website that is called "Anything but Ipod," so I'm not going to be asking your opinions on ipod vs other DAPs, thats for sure.  I think I will start a website called "Ipods and nothing else." 

  I know there are plenty of websites promoting ipod.
 
I don't know how much in-depth listening is qualified for talking about its sound, but I've owned Fuze for a year, just recently purchased it again.  When I had the Fuze for the first time, I haven't even tried other DAPs, still didn't like its sound.  I will have to return the fuze, I got it to try the line out to see if it is the volume amp that kills its sounds..  Don't like Fuze, and never will. 
 
 

 

 

[Brooko]

Quote:

Well my opinion is yes the IPOD is a pretty thing but Pretty doesnt sound good. No way a Ipod will match a cheaper Cowon in any area except for looks or ease of use.
 


 

 
Have you tried both?  Are you speaking from experience?  I own both the iAudio7 (which is excellent by the way), and the new 4th Gen iPod Touch.  After extensive testing with both - I now prefer the SQ on the Touch.  I know people will have different opinions - but to make a sweeping statement that any cheaper Cowon is inherently better in SQ is very subjective, and IMHO simply not true.  The new Touch uses a very good Wolfson DAC - and the SQ is really excellent.
 
Both are excellent DAP's.  Both have stronger and weaker points.  All boils down to individual preference I think.  But I do wish the continual 'iPod has lower SQ' FUD would disappear.