[lostid]

 
Quote:

 
 
I haven't had an issue with that... But I think I may know why. Were the flacs 192 or 96 kHz/24bit? Or another higher quality that the J3 could not decode? If so, it probably froze because of that. Try converting into a lower flac bitrate. I think 44khz/16bit is playable on the J3.  IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, the J3 simply cannot decode the 24bit flac files.
 
Here is some back up for that http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/codecs/WM8960/ --> "Sample rates: 8, 11.025, 12, 16, 22.05, 24, 32, 44.1, 48"
 
You can change the lock to affect the buttons in the settings... Settings > System > Hold Mode. There you will be given a choice between Touch Screen only or All. All locks all buttons except the power/hold button (obviously).
 
Also in settings is the option to set it so that it never uses the speaker, always uses the speaker or only when headphones are not plugged in. 

 
There you go. Those are indeed 24-96 flac's and that explains.
 
Thanks for the tips on locking.
 

 

[lostid]

I am putting up the J3 for sale. Not used to the small size and the buttons. Decided to stick to my RB'd iPod video.

 

[Typhoon859]

 
Quote:

 
Hi Typhoon895,
Are you able to explain what the nature of the problem is with the DAC where it does not properly separate left and right channels?
Do you know if it the particular choice of DAC chip, or the specific implementation that has been engineered?
Have your contacts that "do this for a living" tested the circuit to analyse the problem?  Any good techie should have been able to measure cross channel leakage with some stereo test tracks and measuring equipment (even a sensitive voltmeter).
The Cowon website does not seem to state the stereo separation specification, so I am interested in this...

 
No, of course not.  I don't really care enough to do this and I wouldn't waste their time with that.  I told them what the issue is and they suggested that this may be the issue (which is also what i was assuming).  As I said, regardless of the reason, whether that is the case or not, the issue is there, wherever the problem may reside...
 
Quote:

 


Let's entertain this notion of the DAC chip a second.... http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/codecs/WM8960/ that is the chip used. Considering that this is the case, testing for leakage in circuit leakage should be theoretically very easy. If it is true I can think of two places where it would occur based on the schematics (I'm just basing this on what little I know of digital circuitry)... 1) is in the Digital Audio Interface, and 2) the digital filters. If it is the former, its an issue with the DAC. I do NOT think this is the case. Why? Wolfson is well known for quality in their chips. They wouldn't screw up something so simple. If it is the latter it could be the software that is doing the digital filtering. Even if filtering is off, that is software dictated and if the software is screwing up the channel separation, then it is not the fault of the DAC but Cowon and should theoretically be fixable. Either way it is testable. Just determining the problem and creating a theory on why it is happening without proving it through testing is idiotic. That is not how it works, its the basic principles of the scientific method. If I write a journal article about a phenomenon, go up to a review board and present a known phenomenon and my theory on why it happens, and then proceed to say why I'm right without having created a reproducible experiment that demonstrates the phenomenon and its cause... I'll be thrown out within 5 minutes. They'll probably laugh too. 
 
If anyone knows more, please feel free to chime in and correct me. I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. 

 
As I mentioned, which people seem to like to ignore, I wasn't giving a presentation or solving a problem.  All I did was present a problem/ask a question, did SOME research, and presented a hypothesis which I put up for being proved correct or otherwise.  Even if you prove my hypothesis wrong, how does that translate into there not being an issue? <--Rhetorical...

 

[andrewberge]

I agree that enough has been said about the way the problem was presented, maybe we can focus on the problem now?
 
I just checked Typhoon859's problem on my J3. Running firmware 2.29, using my Shure SRH840 headphones and these test files:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7904468/Channel%20Test.zip
 
I could also hear the channels 'leaking' into each other (someone please let me know what the correct term is).
I don't think this can be fixed by anyone other than Cowon (according to my knowledge, anyway). Is it possible it's just a crossfade done completely on purpose? I would find it weird that there's no option to turn it off, if so.

 

[kyuuketsuki]

 
Quote:

I agree that enough has been said about the way the problem was presented, maybe we can focus on the problem now?
 
I just checked Typhoon859's problem on my J3. Running firmware 2.29, using my Shure SRH840 headphones and these test files:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7904468/Channel%20Test.zip
 
I could also hear the channels 'leaking' into each other (someone please let me know what the correct term is).
I don't think this can be fixed by anyone other than Cowon (according to my knowledge, anyway). Is it possible it's just a crossfade done completely on purpose? I would find it weird that there's no option to turn it off, if so.

 
There is no doubt some channel leakage. As I said it is most likely in software. The DAC has two separate lines for left and right channels, and there seems to be no evidence of any place where the circuitry would be the cause. I think Cowon could probably fix it, lest it is intentional and they do not wish to. I'd prefer it if they did. It is a shame that there is such an issue to begin with.

 

[doublea71]

I'd like crossfade to be optional just like on rockbox. Sometimes I leave it off because it sounds better to me for whatever reason...

 

[doublea71]

So is there old firmware that can still be used that doesn't have this issue? 

 

[Typhoon859]

 
Quote:

 
 
There is no doubt some channel leakage. As I said it is most likely in software. The DAC has two separate lines for left and right channels, and there seems to be no evidence of any place where the circuitry would be the cause. I think Cowon could probably fix it, lest it is intentional and they do not wish to. I'd prefer it if they did. It is a shame that there is such an issue to begin with.

 

I am almost 100% sure it isn't software.  This problem is always a problem because of hardware. 
 
Unfortunately, it's not as simple as the circuitry being "correct" or not.  There are unexpected leaks and potentially a problem in the connection.  Whatever the case, on many desktop/laptop headphone outs, this is the case.  E.g., even on my HP HDX16 laptop (which is supposed to have "good" audio), this is the case, and I know every little step in the processing chain for my files. 
 
The only way this can be software is if intentional.  If unintentional, then it would be retardly so, trying to go for some kind of effect.  The only thing which comes to mind here is the stereo enhance which very clearly has no influence when turned off, yet the issue persists. 
 
Just like anyone else would, I hope this is solvable, but unfortunately, likely not.  I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this issue by this point...  Soundstage is one of my biggest priorities. 
 
I guess it's hard to realize.  But, once you know about it, with good headphones, it makes a huge difference!  It's exactly what it sounds like.  Cramping the sound into a shrunken space makes it sound smaller/less natural relative to its original placement of instruments or whatever it may be.

 

[Migou67]

Anyway the J3 is a discontinued product, now we have to know if the Z2, the latest DAP from Cowon have the same hardware issue ?

 

[mutescream]

 
Quote:

I agree that enough has been said about the way the problem was presented, maybe we can focus on the problem now?
 
I just checked Typhoon859's problem on my J3. Running firmware 2.29, using my Shure SRH840 headphones and these test files:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7904468/Channel%20Test.zip
 
I could also hear the channels 'leaking' into each other (someone please let me know what the correct term is).
I don't think this can be fixed by anyone other than Cowon (according to my knowledge, anyway). Is it possible it's just a crossfade done completely on purpose? I would find it weird that there's no option to turn it off, if so.

 
I believe the term you are looking for is "crosstalk".
 
      "In electronics, crosstalk (XT) is any phenomenon by which a signal transmitted on one circuit or channel of a transmission system creates an undesired effect in another circuit or channel. Crosstalk is usually caused by undesired capacitive, inductive, or conductive coupling from onecircuit, part of a circuit, or channel, to another."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosstalk_(electronics)
 
Additionally, were I going to start looking anywhere for crosstalk, I would probably look in the amplifier section before looking at the DAC.  That is the only place I would expect there to be likely issues with a capacitive charge developing.  Additionally, I would be less surprised at there being a greater likelihood of at least some crosstalk in general in portable players (as opposed to home/studio units that use speakers and/or use separate grounds per channel), since both channels share a common ground.

 

[doublea71]

 
Quote:

 
 
I believe the term you are looking for is "crosstalk".
 
      "In electronics, crosstalk (XT) is any phenomenon by which a signal transmitted on one circuit or channel of a transmission system creates an undesired effect in another circuit or channel. Crosstalk is usually caused by undesired capacitive, inductive, or conductive coupling from onecircuit, part of a circuit, or channel, to another."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosstalk_(electronics)
 
Additionally, were I going to start looking anywhere for crosstalk, I would probably look in the amplifier section before looking at the DAC.  That is the only place I would expect there to be likely issues with a capacitive charge developing.  Additionally, I would be less surprised at there being a greater likelihood of at least some crosstalk in general in portable players (as opposed to home/studio units that use speakers and/or use separate grounds per channel), since both channels share a common ground.

 

Pretty detailed explanation, so thank you, mutescream. I've already paid for mine, so hopefully I won't notice this too much. I did get a good deal on a 32gb version ($194 slightly used), so if I don't like it, it won't be too much of a hit. I can always go crawling back to apple or shell out top dollar for the DX100...before that happens, I'll be buying a set of CIEMs to go with the J3 - I'm thinking about the UERM, since I like the neutrality of my GR07s so much...thanks to everyone for posting their thoughts, even though it gets a bit contentious at times.

 

[esn89]

Owner of J3 here,
 
Glad I made the switch, I am forever grateful that I don't have to deal with iTunes (every time I do, it feels like I am making a pact with the devil).  The drag-n-drop is a life saver.
The sound coming from this thing is great, compared to my last 2 iPods (3rd and 5th gen).  The fact that I can add an SD card anytime I want to expand is also an attractive feature.
 

 

[Typhoon859]

Quote:

 
 

Pretty detailed explanation, so thank you, mutescream. I've already paid for mine, so hopefully I won't notice this too much. I did get a good deal on a 32gb version ($194 slightly used), so if I don't like it, it won't be too much of a hit. I can always go crawling back to apple or shell out top dollar for the DX100...before that happens, I'll be buying a set of CIEMs to go with the J3 - I'm thinking about the UERM, since I like the neutrality of my GR07s so much...thanks to everyone for posting their thoughts, even though it gets a bit contentious at times.

With the J3, you would likely want to color it's clear analytical sound with a bit of warmth.  Neutral headphones reveal its tonal flaws.  I love the J3 for portable use because I found the perfect solution.  Nothing goes better than it paired with the Brainwavz M2 IEM's.  They fine tune each others weaknesses.

 

[lostid]

Quote:

With the J3, you would likely want to color it's clear analytical sound with a bit of warmth.  Neutral headphones reveal its tonal flaws.  I love the J3 for portable use because I found the perfect solution.  Nothing goes better than it paired with the Brainwavz M2 IEM's.  They fine tune each others weaknesses.

To my ears the J3 has a warm not analytical sound with all EQ's turned off.

 

[caracara08]

Quote:

To my ears the J3 has a warm not analytical sound with all EQ's turned off.

me too