[Theta Alpha 1]

Is it a simple transplantation to put ATH-ES10 drivers inside an open-air ATH-ADx00/0X model?  Has anyone on these forums tried this yet?

 

[a_recording]

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Perhaps you can compare it to your AD900X for us?

 
I'm afraid I no longer have the AD900X on hand to compare to...
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To my ears ES10 is not V shaped at all. 

 
The ES10 definitely has a V because they are very bassy and have a very sparkly treble section (even somewhat thin) but don't have a great degree of mid-bass warmth. They are somewhat the opposite of the Sony MDR-1R in that regard.
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Is it a simple transplantation to put ATH-ES10 drivers inside an open-air ATH-ADx00/0X model?  Has anyone on these forums tried this yet?

 
I dunno why you would ever want to do that. The price of the AD1000X and ES10 (which likely share very similar drivers) is almost the same, but the ES10 driver is most probably tuned in some way for a very small enclosure vs the AD series. You would possibly end up destroying one (or two) headphones for no good reason....

 

[audionewbi]

Mine has aged a lot, I honestly cannot remember how they sounded but I remember that when I left them running for 3 weeks non-stop I remember my initial was that they sounded like a different headphone than I first had them.

 

[Theta Alpha 1]

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I dunno why you would ever want to do that. The price of the AD1000X and ES10 (which likely share very similar drivers) is almost the same, but the ES10 driver is most probably tuned in some way for a very small enclosure vs the AD series. You would possibly end up destroying one (or two) headphones for no good reason....

 
 
I got the idea from Shigzeo, he said the AD2000X uses the same drivers as the ES10, so I thought if I put an ES10 inside an AD900X or AD500X or whatever perhaps it'd become an instant AD2000X, just add water!!

 

[Bill-P]

Yeah... marking the ES10 as V-shaped is weird to me. Listen to anything with vocals and it's apparent the midrange is far more forward than anything else.

 

[a_recording]

Quote:

I got the idea from Shigzeo, he said the AD2000X uses the same drivers as the ES10, so I thought if I put an ES10 inside an AD900X or AD500X or whatever perhaps it'd become an instant AD2000X, just add water!!

 
It won't really sound the same for a couple of reasons.
 
1. I don't know if it was ever verified that the ES10 and the AD2000X use the same driver (I'll have to check with Shigzeo) because Audio Technica repeatedly states that the AD2000X uses a permendur magnet (like the W5000 and other high end AT cans) and does not list the same information for the ES10. It seems more likely the AD1000X and ES10 have a similar driver.
 
2. On the AD900X the driver itself is angled, whereas on the AD2000X the driver is flat and the baffle is angled. That means the distance of the driver from the ear will be different in both headphones, which usually makes a pretty big difference due to the change in air damping.
 
3. The AD1000X and AD2000X use a different diffuser pattern in the earcups with curved fins. While I can't say how much of a difference this makes, it is responsible for some of the difference between the sound of the AD900X and AD1000X.
 
You could probably do a better job by buying the AD1000X and implanting the AD2000X drivers in it. Order the AD2000X drivers as replacement parts. That said there is not a great deal of information suggesting that the AD1000X and AD2000X sound all that different. It would be a terrible thing to sacrifice a perfectly nice ES10 for a project like this...

 

[Maxx134]

I feel it is incorrect to pin a sonic label on the Es10 being Vshaped in signature.
The es10 may have sonic attributes of large bass & good sub bass, but not a V, or even a U shape with bass and trebles,
because the mids are lively and forward.
I can conceed I have noticed a slight flat spot in middle of the mids tho.
In fact the forward sounding es700 is so close to the es10 I sold my larger sounding es10 just to get the cash lol.

 

[a_recording]

I agree, there is some kind of dead spot or dip somewhere right in male vocals or something. It's not bad though, it just makes the ES10 sound a bit colder. To me thats typical of a V shape... V-shape doesn't have to mean that the mids aren't lively. The stand out parts of the sound for me are really the bass punch and the extended treble, hence why I think V is appropriate.
 
Edit: I should say in terms of vocals the ES10 is noticeably thinner than other Audio Technicas. The AD1000X and ES88 both sound fuller with vocals for instance. There is definitely a dip in there. That isn't to say that the vocals aren't lively or exciting - they are still emotive and vivacious, they just aren't euphonic or rich.

 

[Maxx134]

My es10 was new so I attributed it to that but my es700 was totally broken in and so similar yet closer in sound I kept those instead but they were getting too intense for long listening so I found the esw9 more relaxed and with similar musicality which suited me better for extendid sessions.

 

[viralcow]

a_recording, it would be interesting to see you review the A2000X.

 

[Theta Alpha 1]

Quote:

 
It won't really sound the same for a couple of reasons.
 
1. I don't know if it was ever verified that the ES10 and the AD2000X use the same driver (I'll have to check with Shigzeo) because Audio Technica repeatedly states that the AD2000X uses a permendur magnet (like the W5000 and other high end AT cans) and does not list the same information for the ES10. It seems more likely the AD1000X and ES10 have a similar driver.
 
2. On the AD900X the driver itself is angled, whereas on the AD2000X the driver is flat and the baffle is angled. That means the distance of the driver from the ear will be different in both headphones, which usually makes a pretty big difference due to the change in air damping.
 
3. The AD1000X and AD2000X use a different diffuser pattern in the earcups with curved fins. While I can't say how much of a difference this makes, it is responsible for some of the difference between the sound of the AD900X and AD1000X.
 
You could probably do a better job by buying the AD1000X and implanting the AD2000X drivers in it. Order the AD2000X drivers as replacement parts. That said there is not a great deal of information suggesting that the AD1000X and AD2000X sound all that different. It would be a terrible thing to sacrifice a perfectly nice ES10 for a project like this...

 
 
Thank you for the detailed reply.
 
To start with, no it hasn't been verified.
 
I understand Audio Technica is one of the foremost authorities on the art of sound and we should respect the integrity and finesse of their headphones without changing them, however for experimental reasons it would be nice to put an ES10 driver in an AD500X/700X/900X (for low price reasons) and an ADx00X driver in an ES10.  The project should be reversible without any virgin sacrifices involved.
 
Speaking of which where did you get the extra lamb-skin pads from?

 

[shigzeo]

Glad that lots of people are joining the ES10 camp. I feel like its the CK10 all over again.

 

[audionewbi]

Shigzeo considering your love to CK10 have you had a chance to audition the CK100PRO? I think it is one of those under-appreciated IEM that people should think of trying considering their current low prices. 

 

[a_recording]

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a_recording, it would be interesting to see you review the A2000X.

 
That would be interesting (it looks beautiful) but all the measurements I have seen of the A2000X make it a pass for me. Where did the sub-bass go?
 
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I understand Audio Technica is one of the foremost authorities on the art of sound and we should respect the integrity and finesse of their headphones without changing them, however for experimental reasons it would be nice to put an ES10 driver in an AD500X/700X/900X (for low price reasons) and an ADx00X driver in an ES10.  The project should be reversible without any virgin sacrifices involved.
 
Speaking of which where did you get the extra lamb-skin pads from?

 
Haha I'm not even talking about the finesse. I'm talking about the potential of destroying a much more expensive headphone to experiment with a low cost headphone when you could actually just get an AD1000X for less money than an AD500X + ES10.
 
I ordered the ESW11 pads from eBay. They might arrive today! Then I can actually think about making a review of them.

 

[viralcow]

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That would be interesting (it looks beautiful) but all the measurements I have seen of the A2000X make it a pass for me. Where did the sub-bass go?
 

 
I don't mean to go too far off topic here, but IMO the A2000X sounds very similar in tonality to the ES10's. I suspect the A2000X and the ES10 shares very similar drivers, if not the same.