[grokit]

Well I sold my HD800 off, mainly because I wanted to try the Edition 8 which is on the way already. I didn't find them flawed however and will keep the balanced cable on hand as I would like to replace them someday, perhaps sooner than later if I don't like the ED8 for some reason. I miss them already but wonder about that HD850 lol, maybe I should wait for that to happen 

 
Also I have my HA5000/W5000 combo listed for sale, but I may end up keeping it as it's the best for jazz and it's second only to the HD800 for classical which I don't have anymore. Anyways I listen to a lot more jazz ATM but that could easily change with the addition of a new tt, which would inspire me to unbox grandma's incredibly extensive classical record collection but I digress...
 
For me money is the limiting factor, but time and space come into play too lol.

 

[dallan]

Congrats on the Ed8, that is the closed one that i got due to the need and the fact that i have such problems with the JH13's.  I really like the ED8 and it gets the most play time due to noise, they have edged out the DX1000 I'm afraid.  Any time it is quiet though i warm up the Zana Deux and on go the 800s.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Quote:

 
 To my ears I hear a more natural, organic, linear, and coherent/resolved representation compared to any headphone. 

 
This is the part I don't get.  I did adapt to the LCD-2 after time with them, but i had to adapt to the non linear, disjointed sound and get used to it both times that I spent several hours with them.  I did like them but maybe it is just the plantar presentation doesn't seem natural or linear but needs to be adapted to.  It is not that it is bad, and after listening it has a full sound but needing to adapt to me means it is unnatural, and i read it constantly on the early stages of the LCD thread/ don't know if that is still the case in that i stopped reading it after a month or two.  I really want to hear the HE-6 to see if what i am hearing in the LCD2 is a planar thing or an LCD2 thing.

x2

 

[dcph]

The LCD-2 for what it is capable off appears a much better bargain than the HD800.  I would love to get the LCD-2 since it costs 1/3 than the HD800.  Both however feature open back design.  Assuming they are both playing at the same level, which of them is quieter from the outside, that is more difficult for others to know what you are listening to.  I only had the chance of listening to the HD800.  Is the LCD-2 louder or quieter by comparison?  

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

The LCD-2 for what it is capable off appears a much better bargain than the HD800.  I would love to get the LCD-2 since it costs 1/3 than the HD800.  Both however feature open back design.  Assuming they are both playing at the same level, which of them is quieter from the outside, that is more difficult for others to know what you are listening to.  I only had the chance of listening to the HD800.  Is the LCD-2 louder or quieter by comparison?  

 
Where do you get that the LCD-2 costs 1/3 the price of the HD800?
 

 

[dcph]

Oops!  I meant the LCD-2 costs 1/3 less than the HD800.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Oops!  I meant the LCD-2 costs 1/3 less than the HD800.

That's more like it. 

 
Actually though, the MSRP on the HD800 has gone up to $1799 and the retail is usually at $1499 (whereas it used to be $1399).  So actually the LCD-2 is like 2/5 less than the HD800.

 

[rhythmdevils]

proof that more expensive =/= better

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I find these arguments tiresome, because one headphone in a particular rig can sound worse than another; but then you change to another Amp, DAC or even different tubes/opamps or cables, and then the other headphone now sounds better.  I'm not going to go into the sonic characteristics of the HD800 and LCD-2 again, I've done that before.  I want to stress the importance of gear synergy.
 
My Eddie Current ZDT with Tung Sol 5751 tube is perfect for my re-cabled HD800 and too dark for my LCD-2.  Some people have commented that it's the best they've ever heard the HD800 sound, or the best they've ever heard period.  If I change to brighter tubes like my Synvania Gold Pin 5751 then the LCD-2 sound slightly better, but the HD800 don't get worse unless I'm with the stock cable (I'm currently using Warren Audio X10 or Locus Design Hyperion which take the edge off).  All the complaints I've read about the HD800 in this thread are non-existent with my particular rig - the bass is strong and deep and the treble is smooth and grain free.  On the other hand, my Woo WA6 with Sylvania VT-231 tubes and Sophia Princess 274b is perfect for my LCD-2 and too bright and bass-lite with my HD800.  All my complaints about the LCD-2 being dark disappear with this rig.  And with this rig I can see how many of the HD800 complaints can be valid, but I can improve the HD800 by changing to some RCA 6DE7 and an Amperex GZ34, at which point the LCD-2 seem dull and closed in again.  
 
Basically, If I only had one or the other rig then my impressions would be limited, and sometimes contrary to what many other people think.  Associated gear is extremely important when reporting about the sound of a headphone.  It's an all inclusive package made up of individual components, that work better or worse in combination.  So I use the WA6 > LCD-2 combo in my bedroom, and the ZDT > HD800 combo in my basement rig, keeping the best pairings together.  If I only had the WA6 amp, which phone is better would depend on which tubes and cable I was using.  With the ZDT amp the HD800 seems to beat the LCD-2 no matter what tubes I use (so far Tung Sol 5751, Sylvania Gold Pin 5751, GE black plate 5751).
 
The reason why I think my ZDT > HD800 combo beats the WA6 > LCD-2 combo, even if the LCD-2 have better synergy with the WA6 than the ZDT, is likely because the ZDT is a better amp than the WA6.  The WA6 can distort and run out of juice at loud volumes with the LCD-2, while the HD800 don't do that on the WA6.  The ZDT can play the LCD-2 to extremely high levels with nightclub levels of bass, without distortion, unlike the WA6.  If I could find a better tube for the ZDT/LCD-2 or an amp that is better than the WA6 and has better synergy with the LCD-2 than my ZDT, then I very well might discover that the LCD-2 pass up my HD800 for me.  
 
So far I'm still looking and haven't given up hope.  Someday I'll find my quad of Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7 and try one in the ZDT with LCD-2, since those tubes were brighter and worked best with my dark sounding O2 in my old GES amp.  I'm keeping an open mind, but so far with the gear that I have the HD800 beats the LCD-2.  
 
I see a lot of HD800 bashing because it seems to be the cool thing to do, but I've found that almost every headphone I've tried will have areas they excel in and areas that they don't, which changes depending on the gear I am using.  Don't say that I'm basically just tuning my system to adjust for the flaws in my HD800, because I'm doing the same with the LCD-2 as well, finding the best combination to suit either phone.
 

 

[ex0du5]

I think the real value in the LCD-2 lies in the fact that it is very easy to drive. For someone like me, who just has a cheap $200 DAC/amp combo, it's a good starting point. It might not sound it's best, but it should be able to at least sound good out of a moderate setup. I can then upgrade over time and appreciate the differences.
 
If you have a high end setup, then I think the HD 800 starts to become an option.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I find these arguments tiresome, because one headphone in a particular rig can sound worse than another; but then you change to another Amp, DAC or even different tubes/opamps or cables, and then the other headphone now sounds better.  I'm not going to go into the sonic characteristics of the HD800 and LCD-2 again, I've done that before.  I want to stress the importance of gear synergy.
 
My Eddie Current ZDT with Tung Sol 5751 tube is perfect for my re-cabled HD800 and too dark for my LCD-2.  Some people have commented that it's the best they've ever heard the HD800 sound, or the best they've ever heard period.  If I change to brighter tubes like my Synvania Gold Pin 5751 then the LCD-2 sound slightly better, but the HD800 don't get worse unless I'm with the stock cable (I'm currently using Warren Audio X10 or Locus Design Hyperion which take the edge off).  All the complaints I've read about the HD800 in this thread are non-existent with my particular rig - the bass is strong and deep and the treble is smooth and grain free.  On the other hand, my Woo WA6 with Sylvania VT-231 tubes and Sophia Princess 274b is perfect for my LCD-2 and too bright and bass-lite with my HD800.  All my complaints about the LCD-2 being dark disappear with this rig.  And with this rig I can see how many of the HD800 complaints can be valid, but I can improve the HD800 by changing to some RCA 6DE7 and an Amperex GZ34, at which point the LCD-2 seem dull and closed in again.  
 
Basically, If I only had one or the other rig then my impressions would be limited, and sometimes contrary to what many other people think.  Associated gear is extremely important when reporting about the sound of a headphone.  It's an all inclusive package made up of individual components, that work better or worse in combination.  So I use the WA6 > LCD-2 combo in my bedroom, and the ZDT > HD800 combo in my basement rig, keeping the best pairings together.  If I only had the WA6 amp, which phone is better would depend on which tubes and cable I was using.  With the ZDT amp the HD800 seems to beat the LCD-2 no matter what tubes I use (so far Tung Sol 5751, Sylvania Gold Pin 5751, GE black plate 5751).
 
The reason why I think my ZDT > HD800 combo beats the WA6 > LCD-2 combo, even if the LCD-2 have better synergy with the WA6 than the ZDT, is likely because the ZDT is a better amp than the WA6.  The WA6 can distort and run out of juice at loud volumes with the LCD-2, while the HD800 don't do that on the WA6.  The ZDT can play the LCD-2 to extremely high levels with nightclub levels of bass, without distortion, unlike the WA6.  If I could find a better tube for the ZDT/LCD-2 or an amp that is better than the WA6 and has better synergy with the LCD-2 than my ZDT, then I very well might discover that the LCD-2 pass up my HD800 for me.  
 
So far I'm still looking and haven't given up hope.  Someday I'll find my quad of Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7 and try one in the ZDT with LCD-2, since those tubes were brighter and worked best with my dark sounding O2 in my old GES amp.  I'm keeping an open mind, but so far with the gear that I have the HD800 beats the LCD-2.  
 
I see a lot of HD800 bashing because it seems to be the cool thing to do, but I've found that almost every headphone I've tried will have areas they excel in and areas that they don't, which changes depending on the gear I am using.  Don't say that I'm basically just tuning my system to adjust for the flaws in my HD800, because I'm doing the same with the LCD-2 as well, finding the best combination to suit either phone.

This is a really great post!!  Thank you!
 

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

I see a lot of HD800 bashing because it seems to be the cool thing to do
 

 
I would feel sad if this referred to my posts.
I just state me opinions and preferences.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Quote:

I see a lot of HD800 bashing because it seems to be the cool thing to do

I would feel sad if this referred to my posts.
I just state me opinions and preferences.

I hope you didn't loose sight of the bigger core message of HeadphoneAddict's post.
 

 

[castlevania32]

it would be interesting to see the median age of people and where their preference goes. The hearing ability diminushes when we grow older, especially in the high frequency, right ?
So maybe (that's just an hypothesis), in general people who are older tend to be less bothered by the hd800 (and bright headphones in general).

 
Edit : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbycusis
Edit2 :
 
Pertes en dB : loss in dB
Graves : lows
Aigues : highs
"ans" : years
 

 
So there's already a loss of -25dB, for a 40 year old man, in the 6k region ?

 

[feifan]

HeadphoneAddict: "Basically, If I only had one or the other rig then my impressions would be limited, and sometimes contrary to what many other people think.  Associated gear is extremely important when reporting about the sound of a headphone.  It's an all inclusive package made up of individual components, that work better or worse in combination." [bold added]
 
If we had a list Ten Commandments for Reviewing Headphones, this should be numero uno.