[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I dunno, Alberto, following this logic, perhaps we should all be e-mailing Florian about our sources, amplification, and choice of music. Obviously, from his standpoint as a designer, Florian must feel that he has released the best possible product that he can, taking into consideration all the economic factors involved and what Ultrasone determines that the market will support. So I don't imagine Florian would feel much inclined to collaborate on cables (especially when he can sell them himself) at the expense of focusing on refinements and designs for the next wave of models. In any case, aftermarket cables are by now fairly well-established accessories and, like anything else, they will either thrive or fail on their own merits. Caveat Emptor! And who knows? Perhaps a wave of interest in, and cash flowing toward aftermarket cables may inspire additional refinements in that direction by Ultrasone themselves. Or not.

Dex the cables that Ultrasone uses were developed by Oehlbach a cable company, specially for them, and for the headphones, they developed a few types, I know as I have two different ones, in my two headphones, different jacket materials mainly.
But as James pointed out before, the majority of the aftermarket cables I know of, were developed to solve problems, and shortcomings in the design of some particular models, and later on extended to others in which case I consider them just a fashion upgrade IMO, and an expensive fashion of course...

If you know Florian, you should know, that Florian is a scientist, and an honest designer, and he will not ******** anybody here, of course the design of any model take into consideration costs, and he is for sure aware also of those, and what corner was cut to minimize them, he knows for sure, the kind of need that the headphone could demand from any upgrade, and what can be and what can not be upgraded, via tweaks...if he wants or not to reveal those secrets that is his prerogative, but to avoid even asking is not the way to go and IMO just to begin to change for a change even less...

Also IMO, I do not see what can be improved in the sound of the Edition 9 that a cable can give you, sorry, in the PROLines yes I agree, but the Editions is not the same case....Comfort maybe, but that has nothing to do with the cable...

I had my CD3K stock my whole life, and the reason was very simple, any upgrade I knew off, was IMO a waste of time and money to my ears...what I was actually looking for from them, was never fixed by any of those, so why bother to spend on that....

Using this logic you stated above, is one of the reasons of why we have everyday more and more, a lot of people around tweaking things, and making changes that they do not have a clue on what the sonic impact will be, and even selling those tweaks/upgrades to others, without bothering in even provide the minimal scientific evidence of why any of those changes will improve this or that in a given sound...The empirical knowledge is good, but has limits IMO, don't you think? Specially while there is other people's money involved...At least for sure I will not be the first in jumping this wagon!!!!!

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pataburd /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, I think a "transparent," not a custom-voiced, cable is the way to go, though. How's that for some civilized BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, Sov?

Good, and we agree, but do you know for sure if that was exactly what they did, with Oelbach while they designed those cables??? I personally do not, probably you do not neither, and if nobody ask we will never know, so why not asking first? First what is first, I mean at least to try, an email to Florian will not harm at all, then if no answer is received, then go empirical and tweak and do what you want, but please first at least, try to find out what are you going to fix, before try to fix it....that is my suggestion, nothing else...but you know, they will always manage to get a market so problably they do not care a little bit, cable market is like dairy, you will sell it...regardless of if the milk is or not good for you...

 

[Dexdexter]

If you re-read my post, Alberto, I think you'll find that I pretty much agree with what you're saying...I'm just tempering it a little by accepting that folks like to experiment with cabling, for better or worse.

I'm not in any hurry to "upgrade", as it were, but I'm curious enough to at least hear what's out there, if I have the chance to without committing any cash.

I'm more than satisfied with the Oehlbach cable on my Edition 9s; it's strong, flexible, unobtrusive, non-microphonic, and fabulous sounding!

But everyone's gotta decide what's best for themselves. The cable genie's been outta the bottle for some time now, and there ain't no puttin' it back.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you re-read my post, Alberto, I think you'll find that I pretty much agree with what you're saying...I'm just tempering it a little by accepting that folks like to experiment with cabling, for better or worse. I'm not in any hurry to "upgrade", as it were, but I'm curious enough to at least hear what's out there, if I have the chance to without committing any cash. I'm more than satisfied with the Oehlbach cable on my Edition 9s; it's strong, flexible, unobtrusive, non-microphonic, and fabulous sounding! But everyone's gotta decide what's best for themselves. The cable genie's been outta the bottle for some time now, and there ain't no puttin' it back.

I agree with you Dex, if people wants to experiment at the end is their choice, and regardless of what we will say here, they will do it anyway...BTW and between us, I would like as well to hear what could be improved, and different choices without modding mine yet....

But if those changes are like the ones I heard, while I used to have the CD3K, for sure I will pass....

What I do want is that they improve the comfort and make bigger pads with more space for my Jumbo ears...

 

[Dan Millheim]

Qualifier before my comment:

Admittedly, an hour audition of the ED9's at the recent DFW meet might have convinced me to place my order that I eagerly await, but I do not claim to have the experience some of you have that actually own these cans so what do I know? Having stated this...

One glaring deficiency I had with these amazing headphones at the meet was the very cheap "looking" cable that comes with an otherwise high quality build/finish of the Edition 9. I was shocked at the dichotomy. As a result, I would imagine others might feel the same way and as a result, Ultrasone left the door wide open for aftermarket builders to improve on this issue both cosmetically and sonicly.

I am sure when Senn first released their various Cans many had the same feeling. "How can one improve on the companies original design?" Well, the whole nature of our hobby is that sound improvements can be made and WILL be made regardless of what the original company thinks. Why have some here had balanced terminations done on their ED9's? It's obviously to improve on what the original design had to offer out of personal taste and the feeling that what is "amazing" can be made even better!

Another thing mentioned: "how will aftermarket cable builders understand the sonic characteristics?" When Sean at ZU wrote me he stated that he was going to be buying the headphones and building/ testing cables that would work best. I guess with anything this subjective the ultimate measurment will be if the "market" agrees or not? Based on their past success with other offerings, I would say they may be able to figure this out on their own, ha.

Thanks everyone for your help on this thread. I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts and impressions. I wish you all well.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Millheim /img/forum/go_quote.gif Qualifier before my comment: Admittedly, an hour audition of the ED9's at the recent DFW meet might have convinced me to place my order that I eagerly await, but I do not claim to have the experience some of you have that actually own these cans so what do I know? Having stated this... One glaring deficiency I had with these amazing headphones at the meet was the very cheap "looking" cable that comes with an otherwise high quality build/finish of the Edition 9. I was shocked at the dichotomy. As a result, I would imagine others might feel the same way and as a result, Ultrasone left the door wide open for aftermarket builders to improve on this issue both cosmetically and sonicly. I am sure when Senn first released their various Cans many had the same feeling. "How can one improve on the companies original design?" Well, the whole nature of our hobby is that sound improvements can be made and WILL be made regardless of what the original company thinks. Why have some here had balanced terminations done on their ED9's? It's obviously to improve on what the original design had to offer out of personal taste and the feeling that what is "amazing" can be made even better! Another thing mentioned: "how will aftermarket cable builders understand the sonic characteristics?" When Sean at ZU wrote me he stated that he was going to be buying the headphones and building/ testing cables that would work best. I guess with anything this subjective the ultimate measurment will be if the "market" agrees or not? Based on their past success with other offerings, I would say they may be able to figure this out on their own, ha. Thanks everyone for your help on this thread. I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts and impressions. I wish you all well.

I admit that the look is not as appealing as many others, but neither the cable of the Orpheus nor the Omegar are, and IMO they look horrible, and cheap as well, and nobody replace them AFAIK...but the sound is indeed good...

Now if you want an appealing looking cable, for sure the stock is not one of them, and that is why IMO many of the aftermarket cables (without entering in details) have their success, they in the majority of the cases, concentrate their efforts in producing, besides the quality, that could be or not what we expect, very appealing and attractive products to he sight, and IMVPO, most fo the times more appelaing that anything else...BTW the ones that I have heard, that I have really liked, do not look as appealing...

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif Using this logic you stated above, is one of the reasons of why we have everyday more and more, a lot of people around tweaking things, and making changes that they do not have a clue on what the sonic impact will be, and even selling those tweaks/upgrades to others, without bothering in even provide the minimal scientific evidence of why any of those changes will improve this or that in a given sound...The empirical knowledge is good, but has limits IMO, don't you think? Specially while there is other people's money involved...At least for sure I will not be the first in jumping this wagon!!!!!

I'm not a big believer of cable-tweakin' because I haven't heard it yet myself. The differs will be minor compared to the differs in source, amps and hps I think.
The cable manufacturers will always be able to make cables with different specs that will appeal to certain people (wether the changes are for real or not or for the benefit of or not) and will be bought partially because of that.
That doesn't mean that cable-manufacturers aren't sticking time and decent research in making a cable work for the better for a specific model. Ultrasone appearantly worked together with Oehlbach because with their colaboration they were able to create a cable that sounded like it had to for Ultrasone.
But not everybody wants/hears the same thing. Some find things lackin' in sound or think that some minor improvements can be reached by tweaking the cable.

I will also not be the first to jump on that wagon. I'll just wait till I read the impressions of others and will have to listen to that myself. Personally I don't want to go on that route so I'll just wait till I can pay for the ed9.
I kinda have also lost my point here (the wine was quite nice

) but I don't find nothing wrong with that.
It's not meant as an offence to Florian or Ultrasone in common if you want to check out other cables. They did a great job with their cables, no complains from me. A cable will never upgrade a Proline to an ed9 for all that matters but it might improve it a little bit.
So what the heck, let people spend their money on cable-tweakin' and let us read about their impressions for free. I am okay with that

Ahhhhh, lost my point...Whatever...Tomorrow's another day....Didn't mean to attack you in any way Sov..you should have tasted the wine....Good night everybody

 

[jpelg]

The fact that Ultrasone has not given access to the Proline adapter plug to outside manufacturers makes me think that the good doctor either doesn't want anyone messing with his creations, or doesn't think they need it.

It's rather a shame we must sacrifice one of the provided cables that came with our beloved Prolines to try an aftermarket one.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not a big believer of cable-tweakin' because I haven't heard it yet myself. The differs will be minor compared to the differs in source, amps and hps I think. The cable manufacturers will always be able to make cables with different specs that will appeal to certain people (wether the changes are for real or not or for the benefit of or not) and will be bought partially because of that. That doesn't mean that cable-manufacturers aren't sticking time and decent research in making a cable work for the better for a specific model. Ultrasone appearantly worked together with Oehlbach because with their colaboration they were able to create a cable that sounded like it had to for Ultrasone. But not everybody wants/hears the same thing. Some find things lackin' in sound or think that some minor improvements can be reached by tweaking the cable. I will also not be the first to jump on that wagon. I'll just wait till I read the impressions of others and will have to listen to that myself. Personally I don't want to go on that route so I'll just wait till I can pay for the ed9. I kinda have also lost my point here (the wine was quite nice ) but I don't find nothing wrong with that. It's not meant as an offence to Florian or Ultrasone in common if you want to check out other cables. They did a great job with their cables, no complains from me. A cable will never upgrade a Proline to an ed9 for all that matters but it might improve it a little bit. So what the heck, let people spend their money on cable-tweakin' and let us read about their impressions for free. I am okay with that Ahhhhh, lost my point...Whatever...Tomorrow's another day....Didn't mean to attack you in any way Sov..you should have tasted the wine....Good night everybody

You are not behaving today, baby, you should be drinking that wine here in my living room, in my sofa, beside me listening the Editions......

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif The fact that Ultrasone has not given access to the Proline adapter plug to outside manufacturers makes me think that the good doctor either doesn't want anyone messing with his creations, or doesn't think they need it. It's rather a shame we must sacrifice one of the provided cables that came with our beloved PROLines to try an aftermarket one.

James I do think that it is 100% accurate. The cable was done by a manufacturer who do has that plug, and used them, and produce them, but they are not the only ones, other manufacturers of headphones had used that same solution in the past as well, it is indeed a well known solution in the market...
Sony, AKG, Beyer uses that same plug, why not asking them instead, where did they get them??? See???

Now if the plug is not ready available as an aftermarket or an add on product for the rest of the persons who wants to replace the cable/make them, I do not think that this is an Ultrasone fault at all, not Sony or AKG or Beyer, it was not created by them, and if there is nobody else that produces it for sale, is a real shame, but that is not their fault at all...You are blaming the wrong party here IMO...We could ask, Neutrik or Switchcraft to do it...Also the plug they provide is molded into the cable, to provide a naked one with no cover, will not do any good to anybody neither, as they will have to mold them later on into their own cables, and that is an industrial process...

 

[drp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Millheim /img/forum/go_quote.gif ........One glaring deficiency I had with these amazing headphones at the meet was the very cheap "looking" cable that comes with an otherwise high quality build/finish of the Edition 9.......

I like the way you emphasized the "looking" part. I recently cut into the Oehbach cable in order to balance my Edition 9s and I was intrigued by the design of the cable. Rather than two individually shielded cheap wires within each channel, I found what appears to be a very well executed coax design. The signal line is a stiffer wire incased in what looked like a hard Teflon-like material, which was surrounded by web-wrapped naked ground wire. Of all the headphone cables I've cut into (can't help myself), this was the most impressive and seemed to be the most expensive to produce (layman's analysis). The sound of the Edition 9 (balanced is the balls) speaks for itself.

This is not to write that I won't consider recabling mine, but thought that those of you that are educated and/or have experience in cable design might be able to shed some light on this cable configuration.

 

[jpelg]

That may be true, Alberto. Now that I think about it, when posed the question about aftermarket cables at the 2006 National meet panel discussion, he made it sound as if the connector for the Prolines was ubiquitous. I think he even said the word "standard".

Unfortunately, we later found the connectors to not be easily available. Drew tried. Cardas tried. Nada.

Who is making these connectors for Oehlbach/Ultrasone?

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif That may be true, Alberto. Now that I think about it, when posed the question about aftermarket cables at the 2006 National meet panel discussion, he made it sound as if the connector for the Prolines was ubiquitous. I think he even said the word "standard". Unfortunately, we later found the connectors to not be easily available. Drew tried. Cardas tried. Nada. Who is making these connectors for Oehlbach/Ultrasone?

Yep I still remember that he made that issue to feel like "pretty obvious", honestly I do beleive that maybe he don't even know how hard were them indeed to get for a third party, as they got them pretty easily....

 

[pataburd]

They're readily available for $15.98. All you have to do is remove the Ultrasone iPod cable that just happens to be attached. : )

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pataburd /img/forum/go_quote.gif They're readily available for $15.98. All you have to do is remove the Ultrasone iPod cable that just happens to be attached.

That's one, expensive connector!

If I were to cannibalize my other, unused Proline cable, then I guess it'd be essentially free (if a bit of a shame to mame a perfectly good cable in the name of audiophillia).

 

[The Other Allen]

After reading the first 30 pages of this thread, I yelled Uncle and used the search function instead. Ordered a pair of HFI-2200s, which will be delivered tomorrow. Ah, the anticipation!