[derekbmn]

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Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif The SRD-7 with a good amp will beat the 313 in some areas and that's fine but I can't see the reason with paying 200$ for just the adapter because you might like the cleaner cut sound of the direct drive amp more.

I cannot think of a single area where my 313 out does my SRD-7 Pro Melos/Aleph combo. Nothing at all. The transformer combo has it beat in virtually every area you can think of ,Period.

 

[tyre]

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[spritzer]

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Originally Posted by ShaolinRasta /img/forum/go_quote.gif While it is an economic reality that all bubbles eventually burst, what a lot of headfier's don't realize is that a significant number of music aficionados are not gear-geeks who buy far more equipment than they ever listen to. For many of us, buying and selling gear is not an endless road. Once you find the sound that makes you happy, you sell off all of the excess gear that you've auditioned along the way. The current Stax prices may not last or they may continue going up, in either case, I couldn't care less since I've got the gear I want already. That thinking applies to all markets: the rise and fall of the housing market is irrelevant for anyone who simply lives in their house. This approach however, is likely not to be common on a site like headfi that clearly caters to those who continue to spend loads of money to acheive relatively minor improvements. You've made some very good points, however, including the particularly important one that newbies shouldn't pay high prices for something they haven't heard. Some will prefer the 313, others will prefer the power amp/SRD-7 pro combination -- I just find that putting arbitrary dollar values on it simply due to age or some fear of "group-think" is absurd. The same folks who say $200 is too much to spend on an SRD-7 Pro box will then turn around and advise someone to spend thousands on dedicated headphone amps (including some that are notoriously unreliable even when brand new). Where's the consistency? Your points relating to potential reliability issues are well taken, but there are many Lambda Pro users here that haven't had any problems thus far (knock on wood). Ultimately, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

The gear hounds will move onto other things. They have done so in the past and will do so again. I've seen so many FOTM here I can't count them any more so if you think your investment was worth it that's great but others will get burned.

Comparing the SRD-7 to a good amp is crazy. A good amp will always have better clarity, dynamics and control over the drivers. You pay a huge premium for this but so is life.

 

[ShaolinRasta]

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Originally Posted by tyre /img/forum/go_quote.gif I personally wouldn't pay a whole lot for an SRD-7 Pro even if it supposedly sounds better because there's just not that much to it.

Ok, there's that wonky logic again. You wouldn't pay more for something that sounds better because of the value of the parts that went into it? Here we go with the Grado RA-1 argument again.

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Originally Posted by tyre /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, I'm interested in how people arrived at the conclusion that the old Lambda's sound better.

Speaking just for myself, I bought some Lambda Pro's and spent a lot of time listening to them along with the 303's and 404's that I owned at the same time. I personally find the difference between the Lambda Pro's and 404's to be small and a matter of personal preference, but the 303 is clearly a rung below.

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Originally Posted by tyre /img/forum/go_quote.gif The SR-303, which is for all intents and purposes identical to the SR-404, costs $305 shipped from pricejapan.

Wow, have you ever owned both the 303 and the 404 and compared them over an extended time period?

 

[thrice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinRasta /img/forum/go_quote.gif While it is an economic reality that all bubbles eventually burst, what a lot of headfier's don't realize is that a significant number of music aficionados are not gear-geeks who buy far more equipment than they ever listen to. For many of us, buying and selling gear is not an endless road. Once you find the sound that makes you happy, you sell off all of the excess gear that you've auditioned along the way.

DAMNIT...How come no one told me that!?! There are more than a few people on these boards who have a headphone collection...even if it's 2-4 pairs.

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The current Stax prices may not last or they may continue going up, in either case, I couldn't care less since I've got the gear I want already. That thinking applies to all markets: the rise and fall of the housing market is irrelevant for anyone who simply lives in their house.

I don't think that's a good analogy. A house is an investment and you can be damn sure that if you buy a house at one price and 5 years later it has depreciated you'll be concerned as a homeowner regardless of whether your house is paid off or not. You may live in the house for an extended period of time, but throughout that time it is an investment, and most people don't want their investment to go down in value. The same can be said with vintage items.

Quote:

You've made some very good points, however, including the particularly important one that newbies shouldn't pay high prices for something they haven't heard. Some will prefer the 313, others will prefer the power amp/SRD-7 pro combination -- I just find that putting arbitrary dollar values on it simply due to age or some fear of "group-think" is absurd. The same folks who say $200 is too much to spend on an SRD-7 Pro box will then turn around and advise someone to spend thousands on dedicated headphone amps (including some that are notoriously unreliable even when brand new). Where's the consistency?

I agree.

Quote:

Your points relating to potential reliability issues are well taken, but there are many Lambda Pro users here that haven't had any problems thus far (knock on wood). Ultimately, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

I guess it depends on how you treat your gear. The Lambda Pro headband certainly seems less than rugged. But yes there's a risk with vintage gear...vintage anything really.

 

[smeggy]

For me the transformer/amp was better sounding (only criteria I use) to me than either 313 I owned. Details, dynamics etc are all secondary to the overall sound and I like what I'm getting now. I will be getting an SRD-7 at some stage but not until the prices are better than the current fad levels. I'm in no hurry as my stuff sounds great right now.

One of the reasons I'm not posting much in the Stax thread is because I now have what I like (SR-X, 003) and am content to wait for a good priced SRD-7 to complete it to where I want to be. I do think there is a bit of a feeding frenzy going on and someday there's going to be quite a bit of indigestion to deal with but so long as people understand what they are getting and are happy with current pricings that's fine.

I'm sure many are paying well over the odds through some sense of desperation as inflated prices seem the norm. I was having the same issues with the current K1000 love-fest. Luckily I managed to score mine at well below Head-fi prices. I might be daft but I'm not crazy. One day the Stax mania will subside and prices will return to more sane levels... and then I pounce. heheh

 

[tyre]

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[edstrelow]

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Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although the earpads are out of production you can order the PRO4AA pads and they should fit. They still use the same headband as the ESP9's... Btw. Does anybody have pictures of the ESP6 with the insides intact. I ripped mine out in such a hurry I didn't memorize where each wire went and I'd rather not try it the hard way. They are pretty hard to read in the normal Koss way and I'd like to finish my makeshift ESP7's soon.

The replacement earpads are about $5.00.

I didn't take photos when it took the ESP6's apart but I can do so in a few weeks when I get back from a trip.

The sound of the ESP6 is pretty good for rock/pop not so good for classical. And there are still serious volume fluctuations apparently as the self-bias goes up and down too much.

I was interested in these partly because I had a pair many years ago which impressed me and most people who heard them. I am not certain that my current ones are up to spec, and I know that there are bias problems, but comparing them with the Koss ESP 950 and current Stax 404 and Sigma/404, with a 717 amp, I would have to say that the equipment has improved a lot over the years. In fact the only real advantage of the ESP 6 is that it has great isolation.

While there are big differences going from an early Koss to the ESP 950, there are not many differences in the Lambdas over the 20 or so years. Is it possible that some of the attraction may be that the diaphragms are just well broken-in? Maybe the plastic cures like the wood in a Stradivarius violin?

Whether they are really better or not, I don't see the prices of the classic Stax going down. The supply is no longer increasing, I mean, have you ever seen an SRX III pro for sale? So some of them may become virtual museum pieces.

 

[spritzer]

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Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif The replacement earpads are about $5.00. I didn't take photos when it took the ESP6's apart but I can do so in a few weeks when I get back from a trip. The sound of the ESP6 is pretty good for rock/pop not so good for classical. And there are still serious volume fluctuations apparently as the self-bias goes up and down too much. I was interested in these partly because I had a pair many years ago which impressed me and most people who heard them. I am not certain that my current ones are up to spec, and I know that there are bias problems, but comparing them with the Koss ESP 950 and current Stax 404 and Sigma/404, with a 717 amp, I would have to say that the equipment has improved a lot over the years. In fact the only real advantage of the ESP 6 is that it has great isolation. While there are big differences going from an early Koss to the ESP 950, there are not many differences in the Lambdas over the 20 or so years. Is it possible that some of the attraction may be that the diaphragms are just well broken-in? Maybe the plastic cures like the wood in a Stradivarius violin? Whether they are really better or not, I don't see the prices of the classic Stax going down. The supply is no longer increasing, I mean, have you ever seen an SRX III pro for sale? So some of them may become virtual museum pieces.

It would be great to get some pictures of the wires then. I've been restoring the internal PCB's and they should work but I don't want to fry any think just because I connected it wrong. In the usual Koss way the design is far from straight forward.

The plastic does cure a bit over the years but I think it's more down to the way gear was designed back then. It was warmer and more appealing but today every thing is bright and edgy with more "detail". Some like it some don't.

 

[ShaolinRasta]

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Originally Posted by thrice /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think that's a good analogy. A house is an investment and you can be damn sure that if you buy a house at one price and 5 years later it has depreciated you'll be concerned as a homeowner regardless of whether your house is paid off or not. You may live in the house for an extended period of time, but throughout that time it is an investment, and most people don't want their investment to go down in value. The same can be said with vintage items.

Well we may be going off topic a bit, but I would say your statement may be a generational one -- it certainly reflects standard modern economic views. The housing market in the US and many other parts of the world has seen a classic bubble develop largely because of the excess liquidity that has been created. Throughout history, however, in societies without easy money creation (inflation), houses have never been looked at as investments. They're just the homes that you live in and raise your kids in. You rarely owned more than one and you didn't flip them for quick profits. In stable economies like those, your house didn't appreciate or depreciate in value, it just served its function and held its value. What I'm saying is that our viewpoints on pricing may differ if we apply that standard to our vintage Stax gear. The bubble exists because of people who own a gazillion pairs of cans and constantly surf eBay in multiple languages in search of more. Adding fuel to the situation are speculators who buy and resell to make a quick buck. It's not fueled by the occasional discerning music lover who has auditioned a lot of gear and has settled into his sound. If we really want to do something about the current pricing situation, we should agree to sell our excess gear to each other at reasonable prices rather than launch bidding wars against each other.

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Originally Posted by tyre /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the SRD-7 Pro ends up increasing in value to beyond a certain point, it makes more sense economically to just build one for cheaper. Or maybe just mod a low bias SRD-7 to work with high bias phones.

Well, that's the point. It doesn't make sense economically to "just build one for cheaper". Professional billing rates being what they are today, a couple hundred bucks may get you a handful of parts and two hours worth of someone's time. Good luck with that. We've discussed potentially modding a low-bias box on this and previous threads extensively and to my knowledge it's gone nowhere. That's why I've said before (and am saying again) that given the right amp, the SRD-7 Pro is the best value going to drive your Stax. I don't see anything even close to it below $800 or so on the used market. Given that, $200 certainly doesn't seem unreasonable. (That said, I recently sold my extra one to another headfier for significantly less than two bills.)

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Originally Posted by tyre /img/forum/go_quote.gif The guy at 6moons.com disagrees with you though.

That review is why I initially bought the 3030 Classic. It's a great intro to the Stax universe, but for me there was a far better option for the price because I already had a suitable power amp. When I bought my used 404 and compared them to the 303, I was absolutely stunned that the sixmoons guy couldn't hear the difference. Maybe all the flowery language he was writing befuddled his senses.

 

[audiod]

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Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Omega II, with "Buy It Now" on eBay. If anyone are interested...

Thanks krmathis,
I just joined the Omega II club!

AudioD

 

[Carl]

You know that when you start treating your hobbies as a financial investment you're doing it wrong. Just do things however you want to do them, there's no need for justifying your actions.

 

[milkpowder]

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Originally Posted by tyre /img/forum/go_quote.gif Me? Nope. I wish I could own both, and a Lambda Pro too.

Speaking of which, there's a very nice pair for sale at the moment. Go look in the usual places and you'll find it.

 

[audiod]

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Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif The SR-Lambda and Lambda Pro differ from the newer models in only one really significant way and that is their partially covered backwave. Membrane thickness has an effect but this has been hyped out of all proportions by Stax over the years as an easy way to sell models.

I thought that the stators were completely different (perferated metal vs. wire mesh).

 

[krmathis]

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Originally Posted by audiod /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quote: Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Omega II, with "Buy It Now" on eBay. If anyone are interested... Thanks krmathis, I just joined the Omega II club! AudioD

My pleasure!
Welcome to the Omega II club, I am certain you will enjoy the stay.