[twister6]

When you wear a headphone and I wear that same headphone, our individual transfer functions can vary rather substantially, and these differences (independent of preference) can significantly impact our individual experience with a given headphone. (This is an interesting discussion that we'll be having more of soon.) That said, I think if the graphs above reasonably represent an average human experience of the IE800, then, in a sweep through that range, most of us should hear the drops both of those graphs show at 3 kHz (and thereabouts). In the first graph, relative to 1 kHz, the drop to 3 kHz is steep and approaches 14 or 15 decibels, with an even deeper drop through 5 kHz. In the second graph, it's slightly less steep (but still steep) and is around 12 or 13 decibels.

Put your IE800 on, and play the following video at a moderate volume level:



Do you hear a drop in level of 13 to 15 dBSPL as the sweep transitions from 1 kHz to 3 kHz? Some may, but I think most will not. I definitely do not.

...

Finally had a chance to run this sweep. I felt like I'm at the doctor's office, getting hearing exam Tried it with wire up over ear and wire down, using Symbio silicone/foam hybrid tips.

With ie800s there is definitely no drop from 1k to 3k. But I do hear clearly a peak at 5.4k, then a little drop and a lift to the next peak at 7.9k, a small drop and another lift between 9k-12.2k reaching 12.2k as a peak, and a sharp drop off after 12.5k. From there, I only hear a small blip around 15k.

Regarding cable microphonics, not sure if it was in reference to the original ie800, but with ie800s it's hardly noticeable. It's not the "quietest" cable I heard, but it's soft, pliable, no memory effect, and perhaps a faint microphonics with wire down which completely disappears with wire up over the ear.

The length of y-split cable section is 9.5". For my average size head it's more than enough for over-ear fit, and I still have room for chin-slider to go up about an inch.

 

[maii]

May I ask? I have remote microphone cord rcs800 of the ie800 I guess I can not use with ie800s right?

 

[james444]

Reason I'm saying this is that there was similar debate regarding Judes differences with Tylls measurements of the MDR-Z1R (I think). Funnily enough - that was also in the 10 kHz area. I'd want to measure the same IE800S on a few rigs and compare the raw measurements before saying anyone's measurements are garbage. Another interesting thing is that there were more measurements showing a 10 kHz peak around the net with that pair of headphones - in fact I think Jude's may have been the only measurement that wasn't. So when something like this comes up, I'd be holding off any judgement.

Just my 2c, I auditioned the new IE800S at length today, including a direct A/B to my five year old IE800. To my ears, there's definitely a similar peak around 10kHz on both IEMs, though it's maybe a tad less pronounced on the IE800S. Hard to tell by ear whether it's the exact same treble peak, cause the lower ranges are tuned differently, resulting in stronger treble masking on the new model... i.e. the peak sounds less obvious here.

But thing is, a peak in that area pretty much always manifests itself as thinness / lack of note-weight with cymbals (another example being the Pinnacle P1, for instance). And that's easily identifyable with the right test rack, if you know what to listen for (no, it's not the "SSSSSSS" ). So, long story short, the exact same timbre issue with cymbals is there on the iE800S, imho. Hence I personally tend to trust graphs that do show that peak, since they coincide with what I'm hearing.

 

[Dobrescu George]

May I ask? I have remote microphone cord rcs800 of the ie800 I guess I can not use with ie800s right?

I dont think so... I think ie800S is 4 pole there, while ie800 is 3 (?)

 

[Dobrescu George]

Just my 2c, I auditioned the new IE800S at length today, including a direct A/B to my five year old IE800. To my ears, there's definitely a similar peak around 10kHz on both IEMs, though it's maybe a tad less pronounced on the IE800S. Hard to tell by ear whether it's the exact same treble peak, cause the lower ranges are tuned differently, resulting in stronger treble masking on the new model... i.e. the peak sounds less obvious here.

But thing is, a peak in that area pretty much always manifests itself as thinness / lack of note-weight with cymbals (another example being the Pinnacle P1, for instance). And that's easily identifyable with the right test rack, if you know what to listen for (no, it's not the "SSSSSSS" ). So, long story short, the exact same timbre issue with cymbals is there on the iE800S, imho. Hence I personally tend to trust graphs that do show that peak, since they coincide with what I'm hearing.

Thank you for sharing this with us!

I really want a pair now!

 

[Deftone]

Finally had a chance to run this sweep. I felt like I'm at the doctor's office, getting hearing exam Tried it with wire up over ear and wire down, using Symbio silicone/foam hybrid tips.

With ie800s there is definitely no drop from 1k to 3k. But I do hear clearly a peak at 5.4k, then a little drop and a lift to the next peak at 7.9k, a small drop and another lift between 9k-12.2k reaching 12.2k as a peak, and a sharp drop off after 12.5k. From there, I only hear a small blip around 15k.

Regarding cable microphonics, not sure if it was in reference to the original ie800, but with ie800s it's hardly noticeable. It's not the "quietest" cable I heard, but it's soft, pliable, no memory effect, and perhaps a faint microphonics with wire down which completely disappears with wire up over the ear.

The length of y-split cable section is 9.5". For my average size head it's more than enough for over-ear fit, and I still have room for chin-slider to go up about an inch.

Interesting I tried another test I downloaded from the internet, I hear it to 19khz, I love how the treble is going strong even at that kind of height then it goes extremely quiet and I can’t hear anything at all. I also hear the same lifts and drops you hear earlier on in the treble.

 

[Deftone]

Thank you for sharing this with us!

I really want a pair now!

Are they not available in Romania yet?

 

[Dobrescu George]

Are they not available in Romania yet?

--

Not yet.... They are going to be, but AVstore is in the waiting line to receive one. I can't afford to go blind on this one since I have a responsibility as the Director of a Game Studio to invest most of my money towards our games

 

[Deftone]

Really disappointed to hear this. But thank you for the report. Probably saved me a $1,000.

(On the other hand, I am fine with using Complys, i.e. putting a slight leash on the treble is not my personal issue. I hope that someone can test the IE800S with Complys and report on the microphonics.)

No problem with complys fitted but I don’t think the the microphonics are that bad anyway. Complys are good for fit but “ruin” the sound.

Waiting on some Snugs pro custom fit tips.

 

[khatch]

I tried mine with the Snugs Pro custom tips I had made for my IE800 and had a similar result - to much in the way of high frequency suppression, or at least they materially interfere with how I perceive the higher frequencies.

 

[jude]

Just want to step in here with something. What Jude is showing is that there are some different measurements around - not that others are garbage - just that others are measuring differently. Jude - are yours raw or is there compensation applied? What is the standard?...

@Brooko, the IE800S frequency response I posted is uncompensated.

...Reason I'm saying this is that there was similar debate regarding Judes differences with Tylls measurements of the MDR-Z1R (I think). Funnily enough - that was also in the 10 kHz area. I'd want to measure the same IE800S on a few rigs and compare the raw measurements before saying anyone's measurements are garbage. Another interesting thing is that there were more measurements showing a 10 kHz peak around the net with that pair of headphones - in fact I think Jude's may have been the only measurement that wasn't. So when something like this comes up, I'd be holding off any judgement...

Tyll later commented on this subject in this post on InnerFidelity (link) and in the post's accompanying video.

...Lastly - if Jude is measuring to a compensated standard and the rest of us are not, then there are likely to be huge inconsistencies...

Again, that's an uncompensated measurement. If I use compensation I do note it with the measurement.

...So before we automatically proclaim the person with the biggest $$$$ set-up to be the most accurate, and the rest rubbish, lets see what we are actually measuring first...

I don't recall anyone proclaiming this.

We've been putting together our measurement systems and techniques for nearly three years now, with a lot of help, knowledge, and feedback from industry mentors that include acoustical engineers and others who make their livings in/around audio measurements. Also, it's not surprising to me that our measurements don't always look like everyone else's you'll find around the web. I think some of the measurement commonalities you'll see between different enthusiast measurements on the web is due to commonly shared opinions and recommendations on how to build and tune do-it-yourself measurement rigs.

I'll post more details about our measurement systems here later, including discussion on some of the changes and additions we're making to them very soon.

 

[Brooko]

Cool - thanks I was unaware of that info from Tyll. It does make me wonder though - why the discrepancies - not only in what is being measured, but also in what people say they are hearing? I don’t have the IE800S so I can’t comment on what is right and what is not. And I always listen first, then try to measure so I understand what I’m hearing.

It just strikes me as weird that already there are several talking about hearing bumps at 10 kHz with sine sweeps - although that could partially be expectation bias. It’s also weird that you’re hearing none. Everyone is hearing what their graphs measure. I guess I’ll just have to get my hands on an IE800S and hear for myself.

I’d find it unlikely that Sennheiser would have possible big manufacturing deviations in a flagship IEM anyway.

Wouldn’t it be so much easier if everything was calibrated to one standard - and then we could get on with discussing the actual earphone rather than the differences in measuring rigs?

 

[Brooko]

Oh and the reply on the $$$$$ rigs was directed at Kunlun. If you’ll recall - he thanked you for your measurements, while at the same time claiming everyone else’s was rubbish. I simply don’t think we have all the facts yet. My reply was to him - I just wanted to know about your calibration.

 

[james444]

I’d find it unlikely that Sennheiser would have possible big manufacturing deviations in a flagship IEM anyway.

IMHO, it's much more likely that deviations among listener's ear canal anatomies are the reason behind these discrepancies. Have you ever compared ear impressions for custom IEMs? There's quite a lot of variance. The statement about KEMAR having "anatomically correct ear canals" is a bit misleading in my book. Of course they're closer to human ear canals than perfectly cylindrical ones, but (like HRTF compensation targets) they're still based on averaged data, collected from individuals that may vary significantly.

For the time being, I'd propose to go with the hypothesis that people with rather straight (and possibly wide) ear canals may hear a 10kHz peak, while others with more curvy (and possibly narrower) ones may not. I definitely belong to the former group, so I'd fit into the scheme. Would be interesting to correlate people's listening impressions to their ear canal anatomies...

Edit: in this context, it would also be interesting to see the old IE800 and the Pinnacle P1 measured on Jude's rig...

 

[kuebler]

My ear canal looks like ...

Wow... I sit spechless und frightened...

Would you mind posting a larger photo (i.e. with more environment) of this Giger-class of monster?