[rawrster]

Quote:

My E17 came at the earliest the tracking said when I bought from Micca. I'm in CT so yeah should be about 4 days if not less

 
With my luck with packages it will arrive on Friday when I'm not at work that day I have a 32gb micro sdhc I'm not using so I'll get that ready maybe tomorrow so I can just pop it in the X3 when it arrives.

 

[locool]

Quote:

If the X3 can not drive a headphone well, and you absolutely want to drive it. Use an external amp capable of driving that headphone. X3 line out-->External amp.
 
So now you are wondering. Isn't that the E17? Well yes, but the E17 has about the same driving power as the X3 due to their exact specs(not implementation) but the price of the E17 is mainly in its multi purpose use and not driving say an LCD3.
 
X3+high powered external amp=drive hard to drive headphones.

Ok, let me check whether my logic is right
 
For easier example if x3 can drive 250 ohm, and E17 can drive 200 ohm
 
Is it x3 + E17 should be able to drive 450 ohm headphone?
 
To be honest, i have E17 and tried to combine both and its sounds muffled. 
Using x3 alone provide me with lower volume but at much better clarity and transparency.
 
Thus, if i combine X3 with better amp, will it be resulted the same ? 
Logically the answer is no, as different amp give different sound. but i just wonder where the muffled come from.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Ok, let me check whether my logic is right
 
For easier example if x3 can drive 250 ohm, and E17 can drive 200 ohm
 
Is it x3 + E17 should be able to drive 450 ohm headphone?
 
To be honest, i have E17 and tried to combine both and its sounds muffled. 
Using x3 alone provide me with lower volume but at much better clarity and transparency.
 
Thus, if i combine X3 with better amp, will it be resulted the same ? 
Logically the answer is no, as different amp give different sound. but i just wonder where the muffled come from.

 

For easier example if x3 can drive 250 ohm, and E17 can drive 200 ohm

 
No, impedence does not equal driveability. 
 
The X3 and E17's driving power should be about the same.
 
 

Is it x3 + E17 should be able to drive 450 ohm headphone?

No. If X3 can drive headphone X just enough, and E17 can drive headphone X just enough. Then X3 +E17 will drive headphone X just enough. It is more or less useless to use the E17 with the X3 from what I can tell.
 
However if E12 can drive headphone with driveability 2X and X3 can only drive headphone with driveability X, then X3+E12 will just be the E12's driving ability to drive headphone with driveability 2X
 
 
X3 and E17 use the same internal parts, implementation is a bit different but think of the X3 as an E17 with music storage and playback. That's it.
 
If you combine X3 with different amp, results will be different. Keep in mind that you should only use another amp through the X3's line out function as going from headphone out produce a clipped signal.
 
The muffling may be from EQ if you have it on. If you are doing headphone out, muffling is probably that

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Ok, let me check whether my logic is right
 
For easier example if x3 can drive 250 ohm, and E17 can drive 200 ohm
 
Is it x3 + E17 should be able to drive 450 ohm headphone?
 
To be honest, i have E17 and tried to combine both and its sounds muffled. 
Using x3 alone provide me with lower volume but at much better clarity and transparency.
 
Thus, if i combine X3 with better amp, will it be resulted the same ? 
Logically the answer is no, as different amp give different sound. but i just wonder where the muffled come from.

 
You logic is wrong.
 
The amp section only drives the load the is connected to it directly. So if you do X3 + E17 + headphone, E17 is driving the headphone, but X3 is only driving the E17. E17, as an active device, actually stop the X3 from 'seeing' the headphone. But since E17 input impedance is so high (in the thousands of ohm and beyond), X3 essentially doesn't 'see' the E17 much and therefore doesn't drive it much (*you can think of X3 not connecting to anything is equal to driving a load of infinite impedance, so the higher the impedance of the load, the less the source will see / drive it).
 
In short, only the E17 is driving the headphone. X3 is only there to provide the signal. 1 + 1 =/= 2.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

 
You logic is wrong.
 
 

Spoiler: obligatory%3A

 
 

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

E17 is a versatile dac/amp with usb/optical/coaxial/aux in and it supports phone/line out (with adapter)
Dont think e17 amp section is more powerful than x3

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

E17 is a versatile dac/amp with usb/optical/coaxial/aux in and it supports phone/line out (with adapter)
Dont think e17 amp section is more powerful than x3

They are similar 
 
FiiO's page has E17 at 220mW @ 32 ohms and X3 at 270mW @ 32 ohms.

 

[locool]

 
 
i understand now.
 
So, just curious. impedance not equal to driveability then what is?

 

[ClieOS]

Haha, don't be so down.
 
Impedance changes with frequency, so it is not always a constant value (sometime it is, depends on how flat the impedance curve is). There is also the factor of how much current the headphone requires, how fast the amp section can react to the load change, how well the amp section control / dampen the headphone electronically. There is also factor of capacitance and induction. All and all, impedance is only part of the equation of overall drivability.

 

[kamcok]

Basically headphone impedance is the total resistance of the headphones.........
or so i think

 

[serious7]

Quote:

Basically headphone impedance is the total resistance of the headphones.........
or so i think

Impedance and resistance are more or less two different things.

 

[castleofargh]

if you have impedance graph per frequencies and sensitivity you can make an educated guess. I usually just trust people when they say it's driver ok or not unless they start talking about driving lcd2 easily
 
my hardest to drive headphone is the hd650, I wouldn't go and say the X3 drives it good, but it does a better job than all my daps (sony-cowon-sansa... no big boy in my list)
I find it does a better job than my sony+pico slim at driving the hd650 (again really not ideal gear for this phone). so you can really take the X3 as a dap+amp in 1box.
only about loudness, it's loud for me at 30-35 of 60 on low gain. and I listen to my jh13 between 5and 10. this guy has voltage!!
 
 
edit:
a word of warning before the FOTM fever: it's badly shielded against smartsphones. I hear my phone calling as soon as they get around 30-40cm (say 12-15in or google ^_^) or less from each other. <= that is the very worst case scenario, with jh13 and ****ty cable.  with other headphones it was more a matter of 5 to 10 cm. and barelly noticeable with 334 and 001cable. my apologies for crying wolf. the X3 is in fact pretty clean.
 
 
also it's getting hot, we knew it and it doesn't seem to be any problem with that heat, but summer is not the best time to enjoy it. this winter I should love my X3.
 
 
 
 
edit: I use my daps navigating by folder, nothing fancy in my habits.  and the X3 gives me pretty much all I wanted and I was at ease with the UI after a few minutes. line out, micro sd, mechanical buttons. I feel like I'm using a sansa clip with better sound and I like that a lot. thx for making this dap and all the best for the X5.

 

[zilch0md]

Quote:

i understand now.
 
So, just curious. impedance not equal to driveability then what is?

 
Your use of the the word "driveability" leaves me thinking that "sensitivity" is the measurement you are seeking.
 
Quoting the Rane Pro Audio Reference:
 

sensitivity 1. Audio electromechanics. The standard way to rate audio devices like microphones, headphones and loudspeakers. A standard input value is applied and the resultant output is measured and stated.

1. headphone sensitivity The standard is to apply one milliwatt and then measure the sound pressure level at the earpiece (using a dummy head with built-in microphones). [IEC 60268-7].

 
Mike

 

[frankrondaniel]

I'm having issues with connecting X3 to my computers through USB.  On my Windows 7 64-bit home premium machine, it initially showed the device drivers installing (took quite a while) and indicated that they were successfully installed. However, the X3 doesn't show up as a device but appears to be charging off of the connection.  On my Windows 7 64-bit Professional machine I get the message "do you want to scan and fix X3?",  I select  "continue without scanning", the X3 shows up as a device and I can access it's storage.  I see an earlier post about someone having connection issues on a Mac but I haven't seen anyone report issues on Windows.  Any ideas?

Also the X3 seems to handle all of the 24/96 and 24/192 FLAC files I've thrown at it so far.  One track, "Let it Flow" from Grover Washington Jr's "Winelight" album (24/192 FLAC from HD Tracks", skips to the next track.  It plays fine on my other devices.

 

[dbdynsty25]

Quote:

I'm having issues with connecting X3 to my computers through USB.  On my Windows 7 64-bit home premium machine, it initially showed the device drivers installing (took quite a while) and indicated that they were successfully installed. However, the X3 doesn't show up as a device but appears to be charging off of the connection.  On my Windows 7 64-bit Professional machine I get the message "do you want to scan and fix X3?",  I select  "continue without scanning", the X3 shows up as a device and I can access it's storage.  I see an earlier post about someone having connection issues on a Mac but I haven't seen anyone report issues on Windows.  Any ideas?

 
Mine does the same thing.  Doesn't bother me really...I just say "continue without scanning" and then I can access the internal storage and the MicroSD card.  No biggie.  I don't really consider it to be an "issue" unless you couldn't see the device after ignoring the scanning message.