[garcsa]

I was grown up with turntables and LPs..., and really enjoy my old records in hi-res flac format on my X3 (using the default fw). I'm not a tech expert (but not a tech analphabet as well ) so please somebody be so kind and explain me how can the firmware change the sound signature of X3 for example ( or drop me a link, didn't read 1000 pages...) ?  Thanks.  

 

 

[bzippy]

  Why would I need the hardware bass and treble controls of the E17K, if I have the power and control of it in my X3?

  Now, an X1 with an E17K, that makes sense.  But I'm good, I'll keep the X3, and beat my eardrums with the hardware bass and treble controls.

 

 
 

  because the E17k has a coax in ... connect it with the X3's coax out ... i think it will give a close sig. of the new x3ii ... and with the hardware bass and treble too ... i am talking to people who satisfied with their X3 right now but want to test the sound sig. of the new line 

 .... still the new X3 has irresistible features beside the sound 

 
yes one reason is to bypass the X3's dac as Mmet says. but is there an advantage there? is the E17 dac any better than the X3 dac? i dunno.
 
but for me the better reason is to bypass the X3's amp. it's nice and all, but not as nice as a decent portable amp, like the Fiio E17 or E12 or whatever. a lot of what we talk about here are subtle improvements/differences at best, and sometimes placebo even imo. but a major improvement to detail, separation and clarity is had when you move from using the X3's HO to LO+amp (I might include coax out here too but i haven't tried that). it's something you really should try. and so a simple amp is all that's required to do this. if you want to go the additional step of going DAC/amp combo (like the E17) then you could do that too. but like i said, i question whether that is really necessary because the X3's dac is pretty great imo.
 
and one last thing: the E17's hardware B&T controls are important because using LO (or coax out) on the X3 bypasses X3's B&T circuit, so you lose that utility if you go with the simple LO+amp route. i would 100% go E17 if not for the fact that i use 300ohm full size headphones (see my Avatar) and the E17 just doesn't have the power for me. so i am stuck having to go the simple amp route (FiiO E12 and Cayin C5) and no control over any eq (except the amps' bass boosts).

 

[Clipster]

so you use the Fiio X3 with the Cayin C5? how does that sound? I amdebating on that combo or the X1 and an amp of some sort (either the e11k or the C5). Decisions, decisions.
 
thanks in advance.

 

[peter123]

I use the X3 and C5 pairing a lot and really enjoy it. The C5 is a really good amp and I also find the line out on the X3 to be seriously good.

 

[ZMan2k2]

   
 
 
yes one reason is to bypass the X3's dac as Mmet says. but is there an advantage there? is the E17 dac any better than the X3 dac? i dunno.
 
but for me the better reason is to bypass the X3's amp. it's nice and all, but not as nice as a decent portable amp, like the Fiio E17 or E12 or whatever. a lot of what we talk about here are subtle improvements/differences at best, and sometimes placebo even imo. but a major improvement to detail, separation and clarity is had when you move from using the X3's HO to LO+amp (I might include coax out here too but i haven't tried that). it's something you really should try. and so a simple amp is all that's required to do this. if you want to go the additional step of going DAC/amp combo (like the E17) then you could do that too. but like i said, i question whether that is really necessary because the X3's dac is pretty great imo.
 
and one last thing: the E17's hardware B&T controls are important because using LO (or coax out) on the X3 bypasses X3's B&T circuit, so you lose that utility if you go with the simple LO+amp route. i would 100% go E17 if not for the fact that i use 300ohm full size headphones (see my Avatar) and the E17 just doesn't have the power for me. so i am stuck having to go the simple amp route (FiiO E12 and Cayin C5) and no control over any eq (except the amps' bass boosts).

I see what you're saying in getting an amp and bypassing the HO on the X3.  But is there that much of a difference?  I rather enjoy the HO of the X3, and the amp section it has in it.  I also really prefer the bass and treble controls built in, and would hate to lose them.  I suppose I could get an amp with bass boost, and, from what I've read, the EQ function works through the LO.  But I don't see an amp being a big step up in terms of sound quality or instrument separation over using the HO of the X3, especially with my use of low impedance IEM's.  And I like not having to carry a stack anymore.  I did have an iPod and the original E17, and hated the stack, but liked the sound.  Maybe I'm a prime candidate for jumping on the X3 II when it comes out.  I'm more than certainly game to give it a go, and let others know my opinion in an A/B test between the X3 and the X3 II.  

 

[x RELIC x]

yes one reason is to bypass the X3's dac as Mmet says. but is there an advantage there? is the E17 dac any better than the X3 dac? i dunno.

but for me the better reason is to bypass the X3's amp. it's nice and all, but not as nice as a decent portable amp, like the Fiio E17 or E12 or whatever. a lot of what we talk about here are subtle improvements/differences at best, and sometimes placebo even imo. but a major improvement to detail, separation and clarity is had when you move from using the X3's HO to LO+amp (I might include coax out here too but i haven't tried that). it's something you really should try. and so a simple amp is all that's required to do this. if you want to go the additional step of going DAC/amp combo (like the E17) then you could do that too. but like i said, i question whether that is really necessary because the X3's dac is pretty great imo.

and one last thing: the E17's hardware B&T controls are important because using LO (or coax out) on the X3 bypasses X3's B&T circuit, so you lose that utility if you go with the simple LO+amp route. i would 100% go E17 if not for the fact that i use 300ohm full size headphones (see my Avatar) and the E17 just doesn't have the power for me. so i am stuck having to go the simple amp route (FiiO E12 and Cayin C5) and no control over any eq (except the amps' bass boosts).

The X3 and E17 have the same DAC and amp hardware. This was the easiest way for FiiO to get in to the player game. The E17K is a different story hardware wise.

A user can use the HO jack and turn the volume up to near max and get the use of the bass/treble control and (almost)line out quality.

There is pretty much zero benefit to going from X3 to E17.

 

[ZMan2k2]

You're right, I meant the E17K in my post.  Like I said though, if the X3 II uses primarily the E17K innards, I'm more than willing to buy one and do an A/B on it and the original X3.  I think I read in the X3 II thread, that James is using the amp/DAC section of the E17K in the X3 II, so that way, I wouldn't have to stack, which I like, and I'd get the new functionality of the wheel.  That's probably the road I'm taking, so save until April, I guess.

 

[Clipster]

thanks for the reply. looks like this might be the combo I shoot for.

 

[bzippy]

  I see what you're saying in getting an amp and bypassing the HO on the X3.  But is there that much of a difference?  I rather enjoy the HO of the X3, and the amp section it has in it.  I also really prefer the bass and treble controls built in, and would hate to lose them.  I suppose I could get an amp with bass boost, and, from what I've read, the EQ function works through the LO.  But I don't see an amp being a big step up in terms of sound quality or instrument separation over using the HO of the X3, especially with my use of low impedance IEM's.  And I like not having to carry a stack anymore.  I did have an iPod and the original E17, and hated the stack, but liked the sound.  Maybe I'm a prime candidate for jumping on the X3 II when it comes out.  I'm more than certainly game to give it a go, and let others know my opinion in an A/B test between the X3 and the X3 II.  

 
well, i think that comes down to personal opinion. for me the LO sounds significantly more alive and detailed than then the HO. and it's not just headphones either. i hear the same difference when i plug my X3 into the receiver in my main living room system as well as my small bedroom system. one thing i will bet my Paradigm Studio 20's on: anyone would find the LO brighter than the HO. now i suppose there is a chance that i am confusing brightness and detail/separation. i really don't think so, but i will allow for that as an outside possibility (because i think we're all a little susceptible to making this mistake). anyway, i'm convinced enough that i endure the inconvenience & expense of a stacking rig.
 
but i will also admit that i am sad to lose the B&T controls. yes the EQ works with LO bt as i and others have said in previous pages, engaging the EQ circuit does something that removes the extra mojo i hear in the LO. i'm pretty sure i prefer the sound of HO with B&T to LO with EQ engaged, though i admit i haven't done a ton of testing to compare these two methods. the LO just does it for me. i imagine i'll dig into this issue again at some point.

 

[bzippy]

The X3 and E17 have the same DAC and amp hardware. This was the easiest way for FiiO to get in to the player game. The E17K is a different story hardware wise.

A user can use the HO jack and turn the volume up to near max and get the use of the bass/treble control and (almost)line out quality.

There is pretty much zero benefit to going from X3 to E17.

oh, sorry to be confusing. because they don't have the power i need i haven't bothered to educate myself on their dac/amp combo line. otherwise i would definitely have considered these. so ok, the E17K is superior to the E17. my question remains: is the DAC really such an improvement that an E17k owner should consider bypassing the X3's (also very nice) dac? and in that case what's the point of having an X3 at all? isn't it just an interface at that point (and a relatively crappy one)?

 

[bzippy]

  You're right, I meant the E17K in my post.  Like I said though, if the X3 II uses primarily the E17K innards, I'm more than willing to buy one and do an A/B on it and the original X3.  I think I read in the X3 II thread, that James is using the amp/DAC section of the E17K in the X3 II, so that way, I wouldn't have to stack, which I like, and I'd get the new functionality of the wheel.  That's probably the road I'm taking, so save until April, I guess.

i think we all would like to hear about that shootout. i expect another 1000 page thread on this topic alone.

 
 
but even if the X3 II's DAC is the same as the E17k, there is still the matter of which amp is better.

 

[Mmet]

actually ... as for my self ... after my X3 .. i only interested in HIFI-M8 's DAC  

 ..... wished if it had a coax in 

 

[bzippy]

  so you use the Fiio X3 with the Cayin C5? how does that sound? I amdebating on that combo or the X1 and an amp of some sort (either the e11k or the C5). Decisions, decisions.
 
thanks in advance.

it's very very nice. but still i am awaiting shipment if a used E12 v1, primarily for the more subtle bass boost. on some recordings my heaphones need just a bit of help in the low end and the C5 bass boost pushes a bit more than what i need. i am hoping the E12 bass boost will be focused lower and have less push -- from what i've read it does. so it will come down to whether the more subtle and usable bass boost of the E12 will overcome the advantages that the C5 has in overall better amp quality. we'll see.
 
as for X1 vs X3, i think most say the X3 no contest. but i can't say as i've never tried the X1. but i don't think it has any bearing on which amp you get, does it? i think of them as separate decisions.

 

[Clipster]

Thanks for the reply.
I was just thinking in terms that I knew I am eventually going to want an amp and I was just trying to find a pretty versatile pair. I know the x3 works well on its own and I like the looks of the x1. I know the x1 needs some oomph to get it close to the x3. Just babbling on, but I will keep reading maybe some day i will take the jump and just get one or the other

 

[howdy]

Thanks for the reply.
I was just thinking in terms that I knew I am eventually going to want an amp and I was just trying to find a pretty versatile pair. I know the x3 works well on its own and I like the looks of the x1. I know the x1 needs some oomph to get it close to the x3. Just babbling on, but I will keep reading maybe some day i will take the jump and just get one or the other

So are you thinking of getting the E17k?