The discovery thread!

[blacksesame]

Fantastic and underrated cable for sure!

---

Never in my audiophile life have I ever had a stronger rotation in my possession as right this moment! Tonight, in between clients, I was mesmerized and in some cases simply slack jawed by the musical presentation before me, and it's all thanks to wonderful people here like @EnigmaFotos, @Jaytiss, and @Jmop, and their generosity. Also Lime Ears and Musicteck. They can't be left out. So my line up tonight was as follows....

Elysian Apostle
Lime Ears Maris
Lime Ears Incognita
Lime Ears Terra
Penon Archangel
ISN EBC80
ISN H60

---

I also picked up a DAP that was released in 2015, and this particular one is from 2017 and in immaculate condition. The person who owned it, that I bought it off of, kept it in a smoke free environment, and it's got nary a scratch on it. Simply stellar aethetically and sonically. The Sony NW ZX100. When this DAP debuted, it was selling for $700 and was the second flagship for Sony. Simply put, it trashes the little brothers I own, the A15 and A25. It's actually better than my Mr Walkman modded A55, and is about equal, if not just a touch better than my WM1A, with the difference being the 1A has 4.4mm balanced, and a better build overall, but this one is smaller, sleeker, and has a very layered and broad stage, which is unusual for Sony. I have one of the newer Android sets, and honestly, it is NOT better sonically than this 8 year old DAP, and I paid less than $150.00 for it.

Cant wait to hear about the apostle

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Morbid curiosity.


Hey lucky you, it did not get stuck at custom. Congrats on the shiny, mate.



That's the coolest DAP (dongle?) I have ever seen.

I had a Chinese cassette player and radio in that colour when I was in junior high school. Felt like a big boy because I can listen to music on my own

Thanks! The Archangel showed up like the blazes!! Literally the fastest arrival from HK of any item I have ever purchased, and this includes paying extra for shipping for the Mofasest Trio and the Hiby R5 II. I ordered it on Thursday and it was here on Monday!!

As for this IEM, my response, pre burn in, is in a way the same insta-love affair that I had with the ISN H60 when it landed in my ears. This is, by far, and it's not close, the BEST Penon IEM I have ever had the pleasure of listening to. This is the TRUE upgrade to the H60 I have been waiting for since last year.

The issue I have with this DAP, otherwise, I would have bought it for EDC, is that I have a decade old Sony I just bought, and it accommodates 2TB cards. The Decade+ old A15 and A25 that I own as well? Accommodate 1TB cards. This fresh off the boat, shiny new DAP, can only accommodate up to 256GB cards?! WTLF?! That's what my Cowon J does, which I love sonically, but it gets ignored, because I can't really update the card with new music, other than having to delete a bunch of stuff, and that's time I don't care to lose. Why would it be so limited storange space wise, when a decade old Sony can handle it today?

Spoke to my good friend at Audio46 today. Companies outside China that make their equipment in China will be impacted by the tariffs on China from the US. If anything is made in China it will be hit. I was inquiring on getting a new Audeze closed-back headphones and had to ask where they are made, which fortunately for me is in California. I think it is safe to say most people supporting these tariffs are not audiophiles.

Cables on Alix are now selling for double their previous asking price, as long ago as the Spring sale, and IEMs have also doubled in price. I was able to get a couple very nice 4.4mm cables with color matching for the Archangel, but now, I'm out, until further tariff notice.

How is the archangel? looks nice.

Yeah, still got it on the burn in station, but pre-burn in, my impressions are that it's a stellar IEM, that buries the ISN EBC80 sadly, and though not quite as refined or stagey as the Apostle or the Maris, this thing is both sonically and technically playing in the exact same playground as the Lime Ears Incognita (they are very very similar in sonics and tone) and the Terra, while leaving the H60 and the EBC80 in the mud and a wake of dust.

H60 was 6.8, 6.9 and 7.0mm depending on the angle since it's an irregular shaped nozzle.

Thanks for that. Then I'd say the narrower and more uniform shape of the Archangel is 6.5 to 6.6?

Thanks! That really helped me. H60 nozzles are 6.9mm. Archangel nozzles being more rounded and a bit longer certainly will fit me better I hope. Yea, I'm set on this iems. I still have questions, 3 to be exact.
1. The mids on Archangel vs H60. Very curious, H60 uses sonion BA's while Archangel uses knowles. Are there any differences or we get the same sweet and creamy mids on both?
2. The bass, which one do you think is better?
3. The soundstage on Archangel is better than H60?

Looking forward to your full review, very excited!

1. The midrange is pure Penon. It's slightly forward, warm, yet this has a very incisive crispness to it and transparency to it, and a very natural but dimensional stage. You can kinda tell the BCD at work, but this is a more subtle approach to BCD. It's not an exaggerated sense of spacing and spatial cues that you get with the EBC80, KB02, Flipears Legion, or Pula Anvil. It's far more natural, and I believe they did this on purpose?

2. Mid bass has more energy than the H60, and is more note resolving, while having way way wayyyyyyyyy more sub bass than the H60. One of the biggest complaints of the H60 was it's relative lack of sub bass, since it's very balanced from sub to mid, which is one of the reasons I love it, while having excellent note resolution. The bass of the Archangel exceeds the H60 in quantity of extension from sub to mid bass, while digging deeper with incisiveness and note resolution. You can immediately tell you are dealing with a CNT driver. The CNT traits are out front and present and accounted for, and I am a professed CNT stan, and this comes through gallantly.

3. The stage is bigger, more dimensional from a width, height, and depth perspective, while living a step higher in layering (I suspect these are the dual BCD at work), but there's a naturalness to the stage and dimensionality that is uncommon for BCD. Only other IEM that gives me this type of vibe is the Maris, or to a much lesser extent, the Fan 3 (as far as naturalness. I terms of fullness, it smashes the Fan 3). I'm falling in love with the Archangel due to it's giving me MORE than what the H60 delivers, while upping the resolution ante, sub bass ante, midrange resolution and crispness, while staying similar if not just a touch, and I mean a touch less airy and crisp in the top end than the H60, but I don't mind it, because it retains the H60's natural tone for being BA highs, while maintaining a peek-a-boo incisiveness that you find in the AFUL Explorer, which I've come to appreciate.

 

[jghjkhfd]

ivipQ Phoenixia.

So... do you still in love with Phoenixia or the honeymoon is over? ))

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

PENON ARCHANGEL ($800)

The near kilobuck IEM that I've been waiting a year for. The one that price to performance, plays in the same playground as sets above $999. This one ticks all the boxes, while providing maybe a bit more sub bass and mid bass than I'm used to or ask for, but after intense burn in for approx 15 hours, and the fitting of Penon black lickies, this IEM is right where I want it, and enjoy it.

Ran it thru the Nunchaku, and this IEM also takes quite beautifully to tube harmonics and resonance, and it's easy peasy to drive, with full headroom and dynamics, from a Sony DAP untethered or the Hiby R3 II in 4.4mm mode.

So balance would be bass > midrange > treble, but there truly isn't much of an imbalance, so it's a warm and clean presentation, that's not quite lush, despite the bass lean, and technical, despite the treble being 3rd in line, and peek-a-boo style, while boasting a tone, stage, imaging, and layering that's very natural and belies the fact this sports 2 Sonion BCD's. It works more on refinement and dimensionality vs sheer size and width of stage, as you find with other BCD's.

IMHO, it's WORTH. EVERY. PENNY of the $800.00 asking price, and is one of the table setters for this price range from $700-$999.00, and is competing in the same sonic and technical playground as the $1.200 Lime Ears Terra and Incognita. It's technically and sonically superior to the ISN EBC80, Flipears Legion, and AFUL Cantor.

Current ranking :

Elysian Apostle > Lime Ears Maris > Penon Archangel = Lime Ears Incognita > Lime Ears Terra > AFUL Cantor = Flipears Legion = Elysian Noir > ISN EBC80 > ISN H60.

I'll do a full comparison in the coming days, to clarify the ranking, but for now, this should suffice as to where it sits from a technical and sonic standpoint? Thanks!

EDIT : Despite having several cables I rolled, I ended up enjoying the Effect Audio Cadmus cable the best. Penon black lickies and the EA cable = *chef's kiss* Though tbh, I did order a black and a red/black cable for this in 4.4mm, to roll in the future.

 

[pk4425]

It's technically and sonically superior to the ISN EBC80, Flipears Legion, and AFUL Cantor.

Current ranking :

Elysian Apostle > Lime Ears Maris > Penon Archangel = Lime Ears Incognita > Lime Ears Terra > AFUL Cantor = Flipears Legion = Elysian Noir > ISN EBC80 > ISN H60.

Strong words! My interest is piqued, although the price range is a bit high for me right now. Already have burned through half of my Aeolus windfall on the Aether, Volume S and a wired IEM system for my band vocals.

Plus, I like to climb the audio ladder without skipping rungs in my journey. With headphones, I went from double-digits to around $300, then to $500-ish and then to the $750-$1,200 range. I'm done with double-digit IEMs for now and have graduated into the $150-$350 range. Would like to play next in the $400-$600 range before jumping to $750+.

But hell yeah, your testimony above compels. I'll definitely keep a look out for these later this year in the used or sale market. Hopefully the Chi-fi sales will actually mean something other than reducing the Trump Tax tariff amount.

 

[o0genesis0o]

PENON ARCHANGEL ($800)



The near kilobuck IEM that I've been waiting a year for. The one that price to performance, plays in the same playground as sets above $999. This one ticks all the boxes, while providing maybe a bit more sub bass and mid bass than I'm used to or ask for, but after intense burn in for approx 15 hours, and the fitting of Penon black lickies, this IEM is right where I want it, and enjoy it.

Ran it thru the Nunchaku, and this IEM also takes quite beautifully to tube harmonics and resonance, and it's easy peasy to drive, with full headroom and dynamics, from a Sony DAP untethered or the Hiby R3 II in 4.4mm mode.

So balance would be bass > midrange > treble, but there truly isn't much of an imbalance, so it's a warm and clean presentation, that's not quite lush, despite the bass lean, and technical, despite the treble being 3rd in line, and peek-a-boo style, while boasting a tone, stage, imaging, and layering that's very natural and belies the fact this sports 2 Sonion BCD's. It works more on refinement and dimensionality vs sheer size and width of stage, as you find with other BCD's.

IMHO, it's WORTH. EVERY. PENNY of the $800.00 asking price, and is one of the table setters for this price range from $700-$999.00, and is competing in the same sonic and technical playground as the $1.200 Lime Ears Terra and Incognita. It's technically and sonically superior to the ISN EBC80, Flipears Legion, and AFUL Cantor.

Current ranking :

Elysian Apostle > Lime Ears Maris > Penon Archangel = Lime Ears Incognita > Lime Ears Terra > AFUL Cantor = Flipears Legion = Elysian Noir > ISN EBC80 > ISN H60.

I'll do a full comparison in the coming days, to clarify the ranking, but for now, this should suffice as to where it sits from a technical and sonic standpoint? Thanks!

The price tag of this one is surprisingly low. When I saw the EA cable, I expected at least $1200.

"Technically and sonically superior to ... Cantor" How dare you, sir

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Strong words! My interest is piqued, although the price range is a bit high for me right now. Already have burned through half of my Aeolus windfall on the Aether, Volume S and a wired IEM system for my band vocals.

Plus, I like to climb the audio ladder without skipping rungs in my journey. With headphones, I went from double-digits to around $300, then to $500-ish and then to the $750-$1,200 range. I'm done with double-digit IEMs for now and have graduated into the $150-$350 range. Would like to play next in the $400-$600 range before jumping to $750+.

But hell yeah, your testimony above compels. I'll definitely keep a look out for these later this year in the used or sale market. Hopefully the Chi-fi sales will actually mean something other than reducing the Trump Tax tariff amount.

Yeah, outside of your spend ratio, but as you said, later in the year, as even better pop up, you might be able to get these on the used market for $500-$550?! Who knows? But something to look into?

The price tag of this one is surprisingly low. When I saw the EA cable, I expected at least $1200.

"Technically and sonically superior to ... Cantor" How dare you, sir

The Effect Audio cable is excellent. In build, aethetics, behavior, and "sonics".

The Cantor still wins in sheer resolution and midrange clarity and treble extension, but that's where any superiority ends.

 

[pk4425]

I've A/B tested the KiwiEars Aether ($170, now $122 at Amazon) with the Artti T10 ($51 at AE), and the Aether is better. Wider stage, better layering and detail, more natural note weight.

But the Aether's edge is surprisingly small, which only reinforces the T10 as the best value IEM under $100 I've heard. Hands down.

I'm enjoying the Aether and will keep it. It is a bit better than the T10. But if anyone wants to experience a great planar IEM without breaking the bank, get the T10. Anyone want to buy mine for $30?

 

[o0genesis0o]

Yeah, outside of your spend ratio, but as you said, later in the year, as even better pop up, you might be able to get these on the used market for $500-$550?! Who knows? But something to look into?

The Effect Audio cable is excellent. In build, aethetics, behavior, and "sonics".

The Cantor still wins in sheer resolution and midrange clarity and treble extension, but that's where any superiority ends.

Is it the Cadmus II 8W cable or something else? I still need to write a review for my Cadmus sample, but cable review is hard I like how it looks and sounds, but pretty sure I would have a hard time picking these cables apart in A/B tests.

 

[Ineras]

So... do you still in love with Phoenixia or the honeymoon is over? ))

Love it, definitely in my top 10, probably top 5. I don't really do specific rankings, lots of special sets with different strengths and use cases.

I still keep coming back to it very regularly. Phoenixia is just a natural, musical, non-fatiguing set with fantastic bass. Every genre I throw at it sounds great. I rank it extremely high in value for money since I got it at $120.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Is it the Cadmus II 8W cable or something else? I still need to write a review for my Cadmus sample, but cable review is hard I like how it looks and sounds, but pretty sure I would have a hard time picking these cables apart in A/B tests.

Cadmus II. Yeah, It's a fine cable, and nicer than the EA cables that came with the Elysian Pilgrims.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Due to the Lush (maybe being used) as a monitor or reference tune (for mixing) I started thinking it may be used in places where 4.4mm is not an option. While maybe slightly better from 4.4mm, regular 3.5mm is the cats meow here. Almost a first using the included cable and ear-tips................after burn-in the Lush really opened up, providing a careful yet smooth but fast bass............as well as perfect vocals found in midrange ability! Oh.......and the treble, just right! Cheers! This is my tune Gosh Darn it!

Finally in 4.4mm below!

 

[jbfps116]

Due to the Lush (maybe being used) as a monitor or reference tune (for mixing) I started thinking it may be used in places where 4.4mm is not an option. While maybe slightly better from 4.4mm, regular 3.5mm is the cats meow here. Almost a first using the included cable and ear-tips................after burn-in the Lush really opened up, providing a careful yet smooth but fast bass............as well as perfect vocals found in midrange ability! Oh.......and the treble, just right! Cheers! This is my tune Gosh Darn it!

Finally in 4.4mm below!

So the question is... which Ziigaat is right for me? haha. With my growing roster of mid-fi sets, I'm not sure I really need any, but it would be great to have a set from this relatively well-known brand.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I'm just starting on a review. But I have to say, this is the best I have heard from Ziigaat. Read my post below, where I quoted myself.

It is a little early for me to tell. And I may do side-by-sides with the Aether in the full review? In fact if you wanted to do reading, the only Lush review at Head-Fi has a side-by-side with the Aether in it.

But for me to compare the two, it is the actual Planar personality of the Aether that makes that IEM promote Planar abilities. Meaning regardless how the two graph next to each other, the Planar Aether bass is going to be faster and different. Among other things, where the Lush 4 BAs will also have BA personality separate from the Planar? But to me the Aether is a great reference idea of a Planar sound, meaning they tuned it along with the Planar character abilities to be close to perfect......IMO?

My first impressions of the Lush were only 30 minutes, so I would say it is an attempt at a live musician monitor or having studio uses............but another thing that separates it is the low end.

Reading a first impressions (and getting ideas) then performing actual Lush listening.....a person may find more bass with the Lush in comparison to the past idea of reference monitors?

Also the Lush is warm but not overly warm! Yet not sterile or what you consider bland in audio reproduction?

Meaning it is not the boring analytical way. I feel that is because there is no real continuous manufacturer reference idea about bass levels. What I mean is the room response and bass amounts that IEMs make is different than headphones and speakers as well as real made music in a live event. But room response is a thing that headphone manufacturers have always thought about. Where the old 1990s Sony headphone sound could be thought of as reference, but it did not contain the extra dB (of lows) added when listening to speakers by sound waves bouncing off the inside of the speaker, then backwards and to the side of the listening room. These sound waves add a dB or two of extra lows when reflected back upon a room speaker listener at his listening place. And it could be said the Lush is adding that too.

So adding bass is anyone’s guess as to the correct amount? Though in the use of mixing with a bass heavy or bass heavier IEM will result in your mix becoming too thin in the end. But I don’t use monitors for public music monitoring or do home recording studio work anymore, so I’m looking at the Lush as a listening tool. And with that it probably has more bass than what you would gather by the written product description by the manufacturer. Though that is what makes it fun, in that yes, it seems every frequency is provided, yet the full-range mid BA is maybe kind of smoothing out the whole signature by being full-range, and that in itself makes the Lush different. I probably enjoy the Lush due to the reserved bass, the perfect midrange and the subtle treble? That and vocals are even really well done, where they are not forward or back in placement.

Remember there is no set standards for recording studio monitors. That is partially the reason every recording done in a studio is different. So a recording made in Arizona will be different than a studio in New York. Every mix down comes out different as every listening room is a different size/different reflections and has different monitors.

So the question is... which Ziigaat is right for me? haha. With my growing roster of mid-fi sets, I'm not sure I really need any, but it would be great to have a set from this relatively well-known brand.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

So the question is... which Ziigaat is right for me? haha. With my growing roster of mid-fi sets, I'm not sure I really need any, but it would be great to have a set from this relatively well-known brand.

Well, it certainly wouldn't be the Lush, when you're getting ready to cull the H20. LOL That's the first tip.

So you like mid bass slap, sub bass slam, and shimmery treble extension, so......Ziigaat Estrella for the win!! The Odyssey is another one that got a fair amount of buzz (Timmy's favorite), and there's the newest one (of the week), the Arcanis. Personally, I'm waiting on the KE Sextet, but Linsoul seems to be holding that one out, and in a matter of days, shipping to the U.S, will be untenable.