[WAON303]

Yup, that aligns with what Timmy posted on YouTube and it'll be $299.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ...unity?lb=Ugkx-cBzKFNNtONcezO8_a7acy-1PAAQ03uT

$299 is pretty competitive pricing, I expected these to be maybe $425 because the Vulkan was $379 when it came out (Same driver config.) plus collab commissions.

This is good for DUNU because they tend to be uncompetitive with their IEM pricing in general.

 

[XERO1]

Am I the only one that sees Shrek in this graph?

I don't think IEMs tuned to the Shrek Target Curve would sound very good.

Straight up Posts of the Year!!

Equal parts genius and hilarious! Bravo, gentlemen!!

And you both know that the term 'Shrek Curve' has now officially entered into the Head-Fi lexicon, right?!

 

[Redcarmoose]

Night Oblivion Butastur cable rolls..........
As it turns out after four days of testing and almost 100hrs of burn-in............the Penon OSG cable has a remarkable synergy with the Night Oblivion and (newly added) WM1Z. Price point would have you guess the wildly expensive ISN Solar in 4.4mm would be the preferred choice? But after time the OSG really brought some serious magic to the table. Fighting off the WM1Z brilliant treble exposure to kind-a smooth out the treble...............and while the Penon OSG has a slight sculpturing effect and a sight diminishing effect to bass, that character is actually welcome and loved? Some maybe some say the Night Oblivion needs (maybe) extra warmth or a push in the lower realms, but the WM1Z provides ample bass in that regard here. The WM1Z bass is so physical regardless of cable choice or IEM choice! Here the bass has depth and character, yet it is probably the midrange imaging expansion into the stage that dials in the Night Oblivion the most? Just realistic and formed expression of midrange realities, where the Solar was good, it pushed up more treble that the OSG, which with what the WM1Z treble does ended problematic, and smoothed out the midrange more than the Penon OSG? The included cable was maybe slightly deeper than the Penon OSG in bass, but left out the OSG details in the bass department, and mid-range imaging.

Penon OSG cable with Night Oblivion Butastur Universal IEM and WM1Z

Included Night Oblivion Butastur Universal IEM cable

ISN Solar cable

 

[Jaytiss]

This set is pretty silly good.

 

[MakeItWain]

This set is pretty silly good.

Gotta catch them all!

 

[baskingshark]

I think it’s all a question of how much people are willing to spend on an IEM and what their ultimate goal is.

For me, I’ve never considered buying anything over $200, simply because, nowadays, I’m more than satisfied (and often amazed) with products that cost way less. Additionally, purchasing cheaper sets allows me to experiment more frequently with different tuning and driver configurations. Ultimately, the purpose of this hobby (and any other, really) is to be engaged and satisfied with the experience your purchases offer you. So, since I am happy and completely pleased with IEMs in the $20-$200 range, what’s the purpose of stretching to buy a $500+ one? Furthermore, given the incredible advancements in the IEMs market recently, it wouldn’t surprise me if, in a few years, I could get the same level of “quality” that a $500+ IEM currently offers with just a $100 investment.

As a side note, I can’t already justify the price disparity between my $20 IEMs and my $150-$200 ones. Most of the IEMs I’ve purchased recently (even the $15 ones!) feel more like sidegrades than actual upgrades to my more expensive sets. The fact is that the more I listen to music and different gears, the more I lose track of what’s good and what’s bad—or, to put it better, what I like and what I dislike (aka like less). Is more resolution always better? If you’d asked me this question years ago, I would’ve immediately said yes. Now? Not so sure. Do I prefer faster transients or slower ones? I couldn’t say. Bigger soundstage or more intimate? Mmm… Now let's add to the equation that from one day to another my already unsteady preferences seems to shift...

Now another concept that I would like to integrate to this post is this: what’s considered objectively better doesn’t necessarily mean it’s effectively better for me. To take this concept to the extreme, even a dirt-cheap $2.99 IEM can offer me an experience that a $1000 IEM could never provide—and, obviously, vice versa. Now, let’s think about all that lies in between these two extremes...

As time passes, I find myself believing that price means very little in the world of IEMs, especially if we try to correlate it directly to personal enjoyment.

That’s my stance on the matter… now I’ll go take my medications.

There's an interesting study here from The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, showing that sound quality doesn't correlate to retail price: https://asa.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1121/1.4984044

This study incorporates 283 transducers, from budget pairs to TOTL $5K gear.

My 2 cents is there have been quite a few stinkers in TOTL land for sure, but in general, as you go up the ladder, technicalities usually improve from the budget realm.

But of course diminishing returns come in as you go up the ladder, so each rung of improvement gets more marginal but for greater expense.

The important thing is to know where is your comfort level in chasing the never ending audiophile dragon and sweet spot in value to perceived sonic improvement.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Hi, this is your host of the Top 40 Countdown and here's a long distance dedication to a special bromance brewing in the Discovery Thread. ​

Adding to the brofest! LOL

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

$299 is pretty competitive pricing, I expected these to be maybe $425 because the Vulkan was $379 when it came out (Same driver config.) plus collab commissions.

This is good for DUNU because they tend to be uncompetitive with their IEM pricing in general.

DUNU has always been up and down. I remember they had some ultra budget IEM's back in the day that competed with KZ, then they went opposite that with the DN-900 (?) and DN-1000. I bought both and liked them, but sold them because of the sibilance and fit. Then they started the upward ascent into mid-fi and summit-fi with things like the DK line, and eventually the Luna, Glacier, and Zen line.

 

[Ineras]

This set is pretty silly good.

Been on the fence with this one since I already have the Trio and Rhapsody. Yes, and the Symphony lol. Seen all the other youtube reviews, but still held out. Your review finally made me hit that stupid pay now button. It's all your fault! The $22 discount didn't help...

 

[o0genesis0o]

There's an interesting study here from The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, showing that sound quality doesn't correlate to retail price: https://asa.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1121/1.4984044

This study incorporates 283 transducers, from budget pairs to TOTL $5K gear.

My 2 cents is there have been quite a few stinkers in TOTL land for sure, but in general, as you go up the ladder, technicalities usually improve from the budget realm.

But of course diminishing returns come in as you go up the ladder, so each rung of improvement gets more marginal but for greater expense.

The important thing is to know where is your comfort level in chasing the never ending audiophile dragon and sweet spot in value to perceived sonic improvement.

Today I realised that you have written exactly 200 reviews on this website

Speaking of price/performance, is it just me or the “disruptive” or “disruption TOTL” buzzwords are getting long in the tooth? Yes, you are getting very very good sound for less, which is great. No, these those great value IEMs are not disrupting

Edit: I’m curious about the Volare. I wonder who funded them to price that IEM so low.

 

[StarBuccaneers]

This set is pretty silly good.

Thanks. If this set gets a big price drop then I might be interested.

 

[Bosk]

There's an interesting study here from The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, showing that sound quality doesn't correlate to retail price: https://asa.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1121/1.4984044

This study incorporates 283 transducers, from budget pairs to TOTL $5K gear.

My 2 cents is there have been quite a few stinkers in TOTL land for sure, but in general, as you go up the ladder, technicalities usually improve from the budget realm.

But of course diminishing returns come in as you go up the ladder, so each rung of improvement gets more marginal but for greater expense.

The important thing is to know where is your comfort level in chasing the never ending audiophile dragon and sweet spot in value to perceived sonic improvement.

Sound quality doesn't correlate with price in a scientific context because individual taste & preferences play such a large role in what we enjoy.

If you drove an MX-5 or GR86 and I showed you the latest Land Rover 4WD you might be unimpressed, complaining that the handling & acceleration are terrible. If you then used this as a justification that "spending Land Rover sort of money is a complete waste!" you'd really be kidding yourself, because spending a similar amount on something that does suit your preferences - like a Porsche - may well satisfy you more than your humble MX-5 or GR86 does.

Unfortunately, upgrading to an entry-level Porsche mightn't completely satisfy you either because sooner or later you'll start wondering how much nicer a 911 would be. Or a Ferrari.

So really the key factor in being satisfied is knowing exactly what we want (which is harder than people think) and choosing something to match our taste. Even budget IEMs can be a lot of fun if the tuning works brilliantly with genres you enjoy, but there's always more expensive IEMs out there with nearly identical tuning but even better technical performance.

I agree that better technicalities is mostly what you're getting at higher prices. Not just in IEMs, but in sources & cables. Interestingly these days I find sheer resolution has become increasingly accessible to the point where even budget IEMs & sources are surprisingly resolving. Whereas things like soundstage dimensions, dynamics, imaging, layering & background blackness are where bigger improvements are to be found by paying more.

To me the biggest difference between entry-level & TOTL gear if I had to summarise it in one word would be refinement.

So instead of getting loads detail but having to suffer shouty, edgy or shill tonality for it, you can instead get sound that's wonderfully smooth & effortless whilst enjoying the same or even higher resolution. Unfortunately putting sound into words is incredible difficult (if not fundamentally impossible) so there's no real way to know what you're missing until you actually demo some TOTL products.

Though as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. No matter how well off we are there's always something new out there we can't afford, and once we hear it our own system often sounds that little bit less intoxicating by comparison. However if you're a true lover of the hobby like I am then you'll go out of your way to hear everything you can purely for the experience, and the satisfaction of being able to say you tried it.

I agree with the popular sentiment here that entry-level gear is more amazing than it's ever been (I ordered a pair of CCA Trio last week) and that budget IEMs are really all you need to just enjoy the music, but it's also true higher-priced gear exists for a reason. Diminishing returns can be brutal and improvements often correlate poorly with the amounts you spend, but having sound improved in tiny ways can often magnify our emotional connection to the music significantly.

That's why we're audiophiles.

 

[musingclouds]

RE: @Bosk's post

I think that refinement word is key. I used a similar word to describe my SR-11s and it was elegance; I think that comes across in many of the TOTL IEMs as compared to some lower models.

 

[Hypops]

There's an interesting study here from The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, showing that sound quality doesn't correlate to retail price: https://asa.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1121/1.4984044

This study incorporates 283 transducers, from budget pairs to TOTL $5K gear.

My 2 cents is there have been quite a few stinkers in TOTL land for sure, but in general, as you go up the ladder, technicalities usually improve from the budget realm.

But of course diminishing returns come in as you go up the ladder, so each rung of improvement gets more marginal but for greater expense.

The important thing is to know where is your comfort level in chasing the never ending audiophile dragon and sweet spot in value to perceived sonic improvement.

It's cool to be reminded of this stuff. Sometimes I lose sight of what the higher price tag actually means. It means I'm paying for more labor time (including research, manufacturing, QA, and support) and/or for higher-priced parts & materials. But unfortunately neither of those things guarantees a better final product versus something designed quickly and mass produced with low-cost parts & materials.

 

[PixelSquish]

Today I realised that you have written exactly 200 reviews on this website

Speaking of price/performance, is it just me or the “disruptive” or “disruption TOTL” buzzwords are getting long in the tooth? Yes, you are getting very very good sound for less, which is great. No, these those great value IEMs are not disrupting

Edit: I’m curious about the Volare. I wonder who funded them to price that IEM so low.

I'm not so sure about that. A lot of price is for perception and flexing purposes. It's not all that for every brand or model at all, but it is definitely a solid part of the pricing structure in many cases, and it's taught that way. It's taught to businesses and it's taught to consumers. It's part of marketing 101 in consumer capitalism - price determines value and quality in the minds of consumers many times. Of course there are other things but often it is definitely a big factor.

After listening to almost exclusively 1-5K IEMs at CanJam, and many of them, the $399 Pilgrim was one of the few that when I put them on made me think, oh this is something kinda special. I'm pretty sure IEM's in the $500 range sounding better to folks than kilobuck and up IEM's is disruptive. In a very good way. One of the two guys at the Raven booth late Sunday, after I was not too impressed by their flagship, when I mentioned the Pilgrim, he was like, yeah that has the potential to change things a bit.

I guarantee that a lot of people who invest heavily into the most expensive IEM's and like to flex that, it would be impossible for them to admit a much lower priced IEM is even close to competing with their multi kilobuck sets. It just doesn't compute.

Edit: I’m curious about the Volare. I wonder who funded them to price that IEM so low.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You think someone is funding them to subsidize the price? Why would they do that. Shenzen Audio is not out here to do charity, they want to make money.