[nihalsharma]

Then why do even the manufacturers recommend burn in? And why do professional reviewers always do burn in before writing reviews?

I've done burn in and heard zero difference from ootb (but only with all BAs) but every DD based set I have has sounded different to some degree ootb to then 100 hours of burn in (on a rig without listening).

I was sort of surprised when I got the CFA Black Star, a DD based set, and it didn't really seem to change with burn. I posted that in the CFA thread only to find out that they do their own burn during QC.

I found these actual experiences to make sense rather than just declare it all nonsense, but to each his own. YMMV and all that.

I remember buying a FiiO FH5 in the initial days of hobby. Out of the box, it just sounded quite opposite of what everyone would claim. There was no bass at all. The sound was very constrained. I was so worried that I had to place a return order Talked to few other folks and they asked me to wait for few days and it would definitely sound better. I do not want anyone to believe me, but the sound did change quite a lot after a week or so. This was a totally different sound than what initial sound was. After this, I have always believed in burn in.

Another example would be Final Audio B3 and B1, they also open up quite a lot after some good amount of burn-in.

Many manufacturers do claim that their IEMs open up a lot after decent burn-in. Yes, for some IEMs, the sound impressions do not change at all but for many the sound does get better. I think it’s not fair to relate the discussion about cables and IEMs burn-in. I don’t see a correlation in both.

Also, about the Honda example a fellow member has cited, I think, yes if you do a lot of tweaks to your engine, maybe the acceleration would get better. As far as I know and after owning few cars, the engine does get smoother after some initial run and the first service.

 

[Uprox]

So, apparently the Shozy P20 is actually using a Planar driver and not a DD as claimed.
Makes sense considering the naming scheme and the fact that the P10 is also a Planar.
Still, makes you wonder how such a mix-up can occur.
It is listed as having a DD on every site I could find it for sale including Amazon, HiFiGo, Amazon, etc.
Lastly, there is speculation that the P20 uses the same third gen. Planar driver as the S15.

Nope, it isn't planar. My Shozy P20 is in final burning still now (less then 100h). Therefore I can't say a lot about the sound, except it sounds some average between DD, planar and fullsize headphone. P20 is very scalable, with Shanling H7 the sound is very good, with Hiby R5-2 there is insufficient power to get its real resolution.

 

[VHariram2]

I'm sorry, but "burn-in" is placebo nonsense that isn't provable at all.

Why don't you take a listen to the actual R&D Manager at 64 Audio as he recently commented about this topic in this video (at 7:41). He has every reason to give some crap answer ("oh just listen to our IEMs for 500 hours then you'll see they sound amazing!") but instead he flat out says that the first 5-15 seconds of listening is the best judgement you will have. And this is a guy on the engineering team who actually knows how the drivers work. Listen to the part where he talks about how what you ate can literally affect the sound you hear - now how do you know that your IEM drivers didn't actually "burn in", but instead you are comparing the sound under two periods wherein your literal ear-drum physiology is different?

For those of you who think you can actually hear the drivers "loosening up", "becoming more cohesive", or whatever else: convince me that you're not just priming your brain to EXPECT to hear a difference. It's not complicated: if you convince yourself that the IEM's will "sound better" over time, then you are priming your brain for an expected result. When your brain expects an outcome, it tends to magically "find it". There are so many examples of this very same phenomenon that have been proven in multiple arenas. For example, when MSG became a hot-topic discussion as a flavouring ingredient in food there was an inaccurate initial study which suggested that it would make you feel bad if ingested. Once that "study" caught on among the public, magically everyone and their grandmothers proclaimed that eating food with MSG added was giving them headaches, etc, etc. The guy who initially did the study came back years later and redacted it - his conclusion wasn't even accurate. But yet, because people so thoroughly believed that MSG would make them feel bad in some way, they convinced themselves that eating Chinese takeout was giving them headaches. This myth is actually still active - there are people still convinced that they feel some unexplained ill effects after eating even mild amounts of MSG.

These phenomenons are well studied. Just like when they give someone who has some unexplained ailment a sugar pill but tell them its some magic new medication, and the subject all of a sudden doesn't feel whatever ailment they were complaining about.

The reality is that everyone wants to justify the IEM that they potentially spent hundreds or even thousands of dollars on. "Oh when I first put them in I felt they were pretty good, but then after 100 hours of burn in they became amazing!". "Oh they're pretty good with the stock cable, but this $400 cable (which is just transmitting data lmao) made everything about them better!". Nah dawg, you're just coping. It's pure cope to believe that the tiny drivers in IEM's need hundreds to hours of operation to start working as they should.

After-market cables are the equivalent of thinking that slapping on a $20,000 body-kit on a Honda Civic is going to all of a sudden improve its acceleration.

Sorry I am not an audio engineer or professional audiophile...but why you all assume BA iems do not change after burn in.....look at my T800...i did not like first listen big v shape bass bleed and harsh treble...but I initially applied EQ thanks to Riku...and now after almost 1 year this is my top dog end game textured bass and beautiful mids and great treble extension..still keep my EQ though but it was not same as first listen....well if you say brain burn in...big no...I still hear harshness on my S12 so my ears can catch harshness and changes. My own ears mind you.

 

[Okcerg]

which colour nozzle are you using? I might have to check them out again after trying some foam.

Red. Be sure to firmly tighten the nozzles. The red part should not be visible at all.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Battery life when using a dongle with a DAP.
I know it's odd, but I use dongles frequently with my R6 Pro II to give me a "different sonic flavor."

It's been a while since I've listened to the Twilight and the OD200 so they're getting some ear time this evening. I swap nozzles on the OD200 every other time I use them so the black nozzles are currently in use with a copper cable.

Man, they're so different. The Twilight is warm and fuzzy while the OD200 on the black nozzles is bright and energetic. It's gonna be a laid-back kind of night so the Twilight wins ear time tonight.


I don't check out DAP reviews all that often, but when I do, here are a few things I wish were covered aside from the obvious sound impressions.
And I know that I'm in the minority with these, but hey, you asked!

• Physical aspects
  • Size comparisons with a cell phone or common objects like a deck of cards. You know, or a banana for scale.
  • Will the DAP fit in your pockets if you're not wearing skinny jeans?
• Tech aspects
  • How responsive is the OS?
    • Opening/closing apps, tapping through screens, etc.
    • Performance when using third party streaming apps.
  • Local File Management
    • Are there any cool new ways to transfer music to the DAP or SD card?
    • Ease of file management, playlist management, etc.
  • Bluetooth
    • Does it work as a BT receiver?
    • If so, is there any audio/video delay?
  • Battery Life
    • How does streaming music or watching videos affect battery life?
    • Manufacturer battery specs seem fairly accurate, but that's only when playing local files.

1)Streaming battery hours (Apple music and such). Main reason for some to user a dap is to avoid charging phone frequently. Rather than vague hypothetical numbers, just run once whole day with streaming and get the battery hours. No one does it strangely.

2) there seems to be growing perception that most DAPs under 400$ all sound the same. If untrue, this could be broken specifically rather than weak arsely mumbling virgin-porn terms like 'bass seems tighter here'.

Thanks for the response, folks! I’ve noted these down to conduct more tests. I’m reviewing Hiby R6 Pro 2 and R8II, btw. Really don’t want to even hear the R8II since I don’t want the peace of mind I have since getting the dx300 shattered

Re: $400 DAPs sounding the same: I can say with confidence that R3II balanced sounds noticeably better than R3 Saber and Hiby AP80 Pro X (balanced), and all sound different from topping G5. The tricky thing about these DAPs / DAC / amp is that it is not easily generalised. Your IEM greatly influence your ability to hear, as does the type of music you listen to. These devices can have various settings as well. It’s easy to have a (false?) sense of confidence by looking at some SINAD chart, power chart, IMD and think one knows all there is to know. It’s always fun when you can split the DAC and amp and then mix and match them. All sorts of surprises can happen.

Tbh, if one does not get obsessive about this audio thing, I would recommend apple dongle and plain old 3.5mm connector. Or if one has $$$$$$, just grab something in the middle of any product line and forget about this source thing.

Edit: one interesting observation: the low pass filter of DAC. Using the most transparent IEM I have, the U12t, I can’t hear any difference between the filters on ESS saber DACs in FiiO and Hidizs dongle. But there is a different in the same ESS saber in Shanling UP4. iBasso has a few filters and a button for switching blindly. I always ended up at the same mode (D2) in this blind test. Technically we shouldn’t be able to hear the effect of these filter that happens around 18-20kHz.

 

[Neithan]

Nope, it isn't planar. My Shozy P20 is in final burning still now (less then 100h). Therefore I can't say a lot about the sound, except it sounds some average between DD, planar and fullsize headphone. P20 is very scalable, with Shanling H7 the sound is very good, with Hiby R5-2 there is insufficient power to get its real resolution.

No mate, it's a planar..

https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/bad-...nd-stuff-under-construction-part-2/36809/6538

 

[nihalsharma]

No mate, it's a planar..

https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/bad-...nd-stuff-under-construction-part-2/36809/6538

It’s advertised as DD iem everywhere. That 14.5mm size could be a clue. Are DD drivers that big?

 

[DynamicEars]

​

It’s advertised as DD iem everywhere. That 14.5mm size could be a clue. Are DD drivers that big?

You should handshake with Sony EX-1000 with his 16mm DD

But yeah i assuming that shozy P20 is a planar IEM, just like P10. And i think all planars out there have same or similar driver inside. Majority is 14.Xmm planar driver and they have similar frequency response, just different here and there because of the damper used (and cavity resonance, and shell materials)

 

[Uros63]

Haha, there was this reviewer on youtube (setup his own FB group too), that is known for "buying" most of his reviewed IEMs and sources from Amazon.

So he reviews it in a few days before the returns window is up, then he sends the product back to Amazon. "Buys" a new review unit and repeats the process.

Won't mention names haha, but that was his way of testing and reviewing tons of gear without paying much. But last I heard after a few months, Amazon got pissed with this shenanigans and banned him LOL.







Yeah I bought the EPZ TP50 dongle from Aliexpress, it just arrived a couple of days back. Will do some tests and report back.

Awesome, thank you!

 

[nikbr]

Hmm...Nik, you didn't pay attention closely to what I wanted...
My main goal is to change termination from 3.5 to 4.4 mm...not to change the sound; I think there are no those kinds of tips

Changing the cable is just something extra.

Yoooo

Sorry, typical me. Jumping to conclusions. Being worthless.

My three favorite IEMs for heavy metal? Tangzu Wu Zetian, NiceHCK NX7 MK IV, and the Aur Audio Aures. Without a doubt! Oh, and metal is my main genre of music, with hard rock and reggae to follow.

Aure is so capable at everything. Not the last word in resolution, soundstage, layering, imaging, dynamism, etc., but dang is it versatile and seductive like no other. I am going through my very colourful track playlist and it's not stressed at any point going from Deep Purple to Ole Edvard Antonsen to Undercatt.

Man listening to the Twilight after such a long time. I was busy listening to other stuff to compelete some pending reviews and today just thought of giving myself a break and enjoy the Twilight. It's like home, the embrace of this IEM is out of this world. It captivates me every single time i put these into my ears. There have been only two IEMs to date that have brought me to tears, first is the Oriolus Trailli(vocals <3) and then the Twilight. While i can't have the Trailli since it is way out of my league in pricing, I simply enjoy Twilight to its fullest.

Pairing today with my iPhone 15 Plus and Quloos MUB1.

I need to experience any Softears product at some point. I think I'd be about that life. Oh Turii Ti, why are you so expensive? Twilight might be the sweet compromise.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Red package from Kz

CCA is definitely a different entity from KZ. They just happen to promote KZ iem and direct to KZ website

will update when I listen. It’s lunar new year eve today, I’m lazy.

Btw, if you celebrate one, happy lunar new year! Otherwise enjoy a nice weekend

Edit: of course I can’t stop myself from listening to shiny new toy. Dayum it’s impressive. The default mode (all switches on) is V shaped, but the midrange is still clean. I was preparing myself for the piercing, plasticky sound of ZSN Pro X, but it’s not here. Playing God by Polyphia sounds very nice. Bass is thumpy and deep. Guitar notes are crisp. It sounds like a bit more vibrant and thicker Harman-ish IEM, in short. No complaint about resolution or staging so far. Good job CCA/KZ

Edit 2: a bit too imbalance toward upper mid in stock tuning for my taste. Will report if other tuning modes can help

Edit 3: found a good balance by turning down all the upper mid boost switches, turn down 1 bass boost to balance, and switch from stock foam tips to CP145. Good tuning. Good bass. Good stage.

 

[Singaravelan]

Red package from Kz



CCA is definitely a different entity from KZ. They just happen to promote KZ iem and direct to KZ website

will update when I listen. It’s lunar new year eve today, I’m lazy.

Btw, if you celebrate one, happy lunar new year! Otherwise enjoy a nice weekend

Send that free iem to my place. Heard during lunar new year no freebies are to be accepted.

 

[Leonarfd]

Thanks for the response, folks! I’ve noted these down to conduct more tests. I’m reviewing Hiby R6 Pro 2 and R8II, btw. Really don’t want to even hear the R8II since I don’t want the peace of mind I have since getting the dx300 shattered

Re: $400 DAPs sounding the same: I can say with confidence that R3II balanced sounds noticeably better than R3 Saber and Hiby AP80 Pro X (balanced), and all sound different from topping G5. The tricky thing about these DAPs / DAC / amp is that it is not easily generalised. Your IEM greatly influence your ability to hear, as does the type of music you listen to. These devices can have various settings as well. It’s easy to have a (false?) sense of confidence by looking at some SINAD chart, power chart, IMD and think one knows all there is to know. It’s always fun when you can split the DAC and amp and then mix and match them. All sorts of surprises can happen.

Tbh, if one does not get obsessive about this audio thing, I would recommend apple dongle and plain old 3.5mm connector. Or if one has $$$$$$, just grab something in the middle of any product line and forget about this source thing.

Edit: one interesting observation: the low pass filter of DAC. Using the most transparent IEM I have, the U12t, I can’t hear any difference between the filters on ESS saber DACs in FiiO and Hidizs dongle. But there is a different in the same ESS saber in Shanling UP4. iBasso has a few filters and a button for switching blindly. I always ended up at the same mode (D2) in this blind test. Technically we shouldn’t be able to hear the effect of these filter that happens around 18-20kHz.

Big HIBY fanboy will be fun hear your thoughts on the R6 Pro 2 and R8 II, I have reviewed a DAP once before and found it harder than IEMs. Working on R8 II now, but its weeks away from being finished. Love the unit, its expensive of course so it will depend on use case of it's worth it or not. DAP are my main way of listening to IEMs and not going away for me.

 

[Redcarmoose]

So, apparently the Shozy P20 is actually using a Planar driver and not a DD as claimed.
Makes sense considering the naming scheme and the fact that the P10 is also a Planar.
Still, makes you wonder how such a mix-up can occur.
It is listed as having a DD on every site I could find it for sale including Amazon, HiFiGo, Amazon, etc.
Lastly, there is speculation that the P20 uses the same third gen. Planar driver as the S15.

That is so cool that it's a Planar Driver, can't wait to hear it. Good work short-!

 

[gadgetgod]

M

Oh Turii Ti, why are you so expensive?

Man i have seen some amazing offers on Turii Ti in the Classifieds section. There was one available for like 1200$. Also a friend has heard both the Turii Ti and the Twilight, he said that Turii Ti is technically a huge step above but tonally he preferred the Twilight. He said Tone and Timbre of this is better.