The discovery thread!
Dec 14, 2023 at 5:59 PM Post #91,186 of 100,296
B


Yes same as you, decline or don't promise anything big. 😅
Sounds like first-world problems. BooHoo, must be hard. <3 @o0genesis0o @Leonarfd I can seeing not wanting to do review tours or under $50 sets. Also pushie deadlines are the worst. I once got an iem the day before they wanted the review. Needless to say wasn't my best.
 
Dec 14, 2023 at 8:55 PM Post #91,187 of 100,296
For me, 2023 has been a very limited purchasing year.
Increases in the Australian interest rates and cost of living has really made me stop making impulse buys.
In 2022 I would have jumped all over stuff that has come out this year, but now there is a lot more thought that goes into whether I need to add another pair to of earphones to the 30+ I already own. I find it quite hard to justify putting my hobby ahead of my family.

Have only purchased 3 iems in 2023: IMR Ozar, Hifiman RE800 silver (this is amazing for the price that it can be picked up at) and BQEYZ Wind (only arrived a couple of days ago - tested to prove it works and will get to enjoy over the holiday season).

Have also purchased a bunch of cables (yes I am a believer!), ear tips and a dongle.

Dongles are still a disappointment to me. I'm very much in the camp of amplification is king and that just can't be achieved to an acceptable level whilst being efficient with the draw on the host device.

I suspect electronics will be a focus for me in 2024 with continuation of cost of living demands and doubt I'll be jumping on any iem hype-trains like in previous years
 
Dec 14, 2023 at 9:01 PM Post #91,188 of 100,296
OK Forteza is really surprising me with how good they sound. They're very eartip dependent, and maybe cable dependent, but I wouldn't know since I haven't tried it with stock cable yet.

Started with SpinFit W1, sounded good but it made a crunchy noise when I'd move even a little bit. Happens with some IEMs and W1s. Switched to Divinus Velvets. Fit nicely but the sound was off. Then switched to SpinFit CP145. Perfect eartips for the Forteza and my ears. Crazy bass rumble, mids sound much better, a bit warmer, smoother, nice body to sound. Really good details, soundstage, dynamics, and incisiveness. A lot more balanced.

Very happy with this IEM now. Great bargain at $40 and even at the normal $59.
 
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Dec 14, 2023 at 9:30 PM Post #91,189 of 100,296
What's the real advantage of EST drivers?

Crinacle and Precog have criticized EST drivers for being poorly implemented on most IEMs.

Why don't manufacturers just use BAs then? The Supernova doesn't have a single EST driver yet the treble is insanely smooth and well extended.

Is it just an excuse to call your IEM a tribrid for marketing points?
 
Dec 14, 2023 at 9:41 PM Post #91,190 of 100,296
What's the real advantage of EST drivers?

Crinacle and Precog have criticized EST drivers for being poorly implemented on most IEMs.

Why don't manufacturers just use BAs then? The Supernova doesn't have a single EST driver yet the treble is insanely smooth and well extended.

Is it just an excuse to call your IEM a tribrid for marketing points?
I'm a fanboy of 64 Audio and U12T, but I also have to admit that the treble and details of the Monarch II is at least a half step up. Is it only EST vs 64 Audio' TIA tweeters? Idk. But it was good.

The HiBy Zeta has very smooth, almost subdued treble, but when I sit and pay attention, the information starts to come out quite satisfyingly. Is it EST? Maybe. Hard to say unless we can turn off the EST. It has the quad Sonion EST drivers.

Finally, the MEST MkIII. Just lovely treble and air and details in general. Quad-Sonion-EST inside. Is it because of the EST? Idk.

So, you know correlation vs causation and all, but I do have a soft spot for Sonion quad EST. What I don't like is the fact that these drivers would lose charge over time. Would they be unusable in 5 years? 10 years? Idk. That's why I'm eager for advances in BA and planar tech.

Edit: my hypothesis is that there is that softness to the transient edge of Sonion EST that allows manufacturers to push the treble a few dB higher. Hidizs tried the same with BA and it was not pretty in some tracks.
 
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Dec 14, 2023 at 9:44 PM Post #91,191 of 100,296
The end of 2023 is near, the year has been filled by a lot of releases.
Would be fun to have a little survey here on what has been your most positive or negative audio purchases or experiences of 2023?
Throughout the pandy, I've been fortunate to be able to work from home while the world closed down. Even after things went back to normal, I'm still fortunate enough to have the option of working from anywhere. It wasn't until this year that I realized I spent most of my work days in my home office so I decided to treat myself to a new set of near-field speakers. After some research, I ended up with the KEF LSX II speakers and KC62 subwoofer.

This was also when I found that my portable gear was lacking in comparison and then I ended up falling deep into this rabbit hole.

My most positive purchase this year has to be the KEF speaker system that brought me here.

As for the most negative, I honestly haven't had any. If I had to choose one, it'd be the Ziigaat Nuo. That was the only thing that required a lot of work for me to make it sound acceptable, but I ended up giving it away to a friend. He loves it so that purchase isn't all that negative.
 
Dec 14, 2023 at 9:47 PM Post #91,192 of 100,296
What's the real advantage of EST drivers?

Crinacle and Precog have criticized EST drivers for being poorly implemented on most IEMs.

Why don't manufacturers just use BAs then? The Supernova doesn't have a single EST driver yet the treble is insanely smooth and well extended.

Is it just an excuse to call your IEM a tribrid for marketing points?

When those criticism happened, the EST were being utilized without being powered to match the loudness of the other drivers with them.

Look up the treble response of the Final Audio Roland. Couldn't get implemented ideally.

Now the companies utilizing the EST are implementing them louder. But I have no idea how, because the EST have such low sensitivities and yet all these new iems have such high overall sensitivity ratings.


Normally they should become less sensitive IEMs similar to the Annihilator iem and the Storm iem (to implement the other drivers at the same loudness as the EST drivers).

I guess they clip them a little to be louder? Rather than make the other drivers quieter to match the EST drivers loudness.

I guess nowadays they found a balance to minimize the cons of forcing it this way.
 
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Dec 14, 2023 at 10:01 PM Post #91,193 of 100,296
When your old favorite singer song is sung by your new favorite singer,

Tsumi no Batsu (Crime and Punishment)

The old OG one, by Sheena Ringo



and new-ish cover by Ado



---

out of curiosity, if any of you guys used spotify often (Tidal is not available in my place),
what artist ended in your top 5 recap?

1702609725661.png
 
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Dec 14, 2023 at 10:57 PM Post #91,194 of 100,296
My question i would also like to see some discussion around… is it worth making a stop in the 500-800 dollar price bracket, or just put that towards a kilobuck? I feel like I don’t see a lot of discussion around that zone.

800 range is like a wasteland. Too expensive to blind buy, yet too cheap and normie for TOTL gang to pay attention. IEMs in this range are also too expensive for manufacturers to send out samples. The best they can do is to offer a discount, which is usually modest and likely in the form of store credit refund, so it’s hard for me to just buy to write a review. Not sure what manufacturers can do, but if they can run tours, the IEM might gather more traction. AuR, 7th Acoustic, and Elysian did so this year, and it was a great help.
I'm guessing there aren't that many discussions around IEMs in the $500-800 USD range here because there are just so many new weekly releases under $300. Looking at the existing "Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors" threads, this seems like the best place to discover new releases.

Lower priced IEMs are also easier to access for reviewers and blind buyers like @o0genesis0o said so it kinda makes sense that this is the place to link a showcase review for visibility or to share an impression on a new IEM that doesn't have a dedicated thread.

@theintention, if you haven't visited the $500-800 range yet, I think you'd still be curious even if you went straight to a kilobuck. Buy a kilobuck and then wonder if you could've gotten 99% of the kilobuck's performance with an IEM at a lower price point. It seems like there's no right way to "end game" in this hobby for a lot of people and the law of diminishing returns is real. I've just been more and more impressed with each IEM I've purchased that's under 1k and it makes me wonder if I should just call it quits.. but nope. I like new shiny things.
 
Dec 14, 2023 at 11:03 PM Post #91,195 of 100,296
What's the real advantage of EST drivers?

Crinacle and Precog have criticized EST drivers for being poorly implemented on most IEMs.

Why don't manufacturers just use BAs then? The Supernova doesn't have a single EST driver yet the treble is insanely smooth and well extended.

Is it just an excuse to call your IEM a tribrid for marketing points?
Depends on "Electrostatics"

True Electrostatics like from Shure and AKG.

Sonion "EST" Electrets which usually found on Midrangers to TOTLs set.

Magnetostatics like from previous KZ and the newer generation like the TANGZU Nezha.
 
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Dec 14, 2023 at 11:07 PM Post #91,196 of 100,296
Buy a kilobuck and then wonder if you could've gotten 99% of the kilobuck's performance with an IEM at a lower price point. It seems like there's no right way to "end game" in this hobby for a lot of people and the law of diminishing returns is real. I've just been more and more impressed with each IEM I've purchased that's under 1k and it makes me wonder if I should just call it quits.. but nope. I like new shiny things.
Buy a kilobuck, and your friends you make you FOMO about multi-kilobuck IEMs.

Buy a multi-kilobuck IEM, you friends would make you FOMO about other voodoos like cables and DAPs, or a new multi-kilobuck from boutique with cutting edge R&D

Don't make audio friends :dt880smile:

Edit: don't go with the price tag, go with the reputation and see what the fuzz is about. For example, you might find the U12T as boring as watching paint drying, and you simply can't hear that soundstage imaging. It's great, because you have finally experienced it. That's when you can have a peace of mind. On second thought, maybe have some audio friends with deep pockets so that you can try some gears.
 
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Dec 14, 2023 at 11:20 PM Post #91,197 of 100,296
The end of 2023 is near, the year has been filled by a lot of releases.
Would be fun to have a little survey here on what has been your most positive or negative audio purchases or experiences of 2023?


Most positive release audio purchase of 2023 - Truthear Hexa. It's given me confidence/faith to actually do some personal music production again. I've been mixing music with these and checking my mixes with a room simulator plugin, and so far, as I can hear, my mixes are translating fairly well to other speakers, car audio systems, etc. Not perfect, bass often needs to be adjusted or fine-tuned, but better than a lot of other stuff I've tried in the past. I'd rather mix with these than ATH-M50x, that's for sure. I'm just a hobbyist/dabbler not a pro engineer or anything.

Honorable Mentions - I spent a lot of time enjoying music with the Simgot EA500. I recently got the Hidizs MS3 but I haven't spend enough time with it. And the Ibasso DC04 Pro is now my favorite dongle and my go-to out of my collection.

Most negative audio purchase of 2023 - Probably the KZ PR2xHBB fiasco. I still like the PR2 but I was stressed out waiting for them since I was about to travel and they were delayed for several weeks. That taught me that I need to plan my Aliexpress purchases better with my travel schedules. It was an impulse buy and I got caught up in the hype. Was it worth it? Not really since I already owned the S12 and the PR2 was a slightly worse albeit much cheaper sidegrade to the S12.
 
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Dec 14, 2023 at 11:37 PM Post #91,198 of 100,296
if you haven't visited the $500-800 range yet, I think you'd still be curious even if you went straight to a kilobuck.
I think this is the key. I am just curious and these things are fun to ponder but eventually.… I wanna try as many as I can. Already hinting out to my partner about a vacation, but who is to say it won’t be around a CanJam location?… :)
 
Dec 14, 2023 at 11:58 PM Post #91,199 of 100,296
There are a couple I have my eye on, some current ones over $500 are the Mega5EST, Scarlet Mini, DTE900 and the AuR Ascension. But every time I think about those sets, I definitely feel like it would be better to just save for a bigger purchase…

I keep telling myself I am not interested in the Hype10 after my H2 fiasco, but I do REALLY like the looks of it. and the hype 2 sounded so great. It’s a very weird product though when the Monarch MK3 exists.

I haven’t used EST drivers yet, was unaware they ran out of charge but that makes sense haha.
The Mega 5EST is a serious miss IMO my least favorite Hisenior
 
Dec 15, 2023 at 1:58 AM Post #91,200 of 100,296
I greatly prefer this presentation to the compensated version. It's much more familiar-looking to anyone who's been reading graphs for the last five years.
I mean this as politely as I can, but people are going to misread/misinterpret graphs no matter how they are presented. I think withholding uncompensated graphs out of a desire to protect the community from itself is misguided at best and kind of gatekeeper-y at worst.
You are, of course, free to prefer what you like.

That being said, I think as the people publishing data, we are all curating in some respect; no matter how objective anyone may think the data is, it is always presented subjectively. We all make decisions with how we present—raw vs. compensated, where we normalize, what target we show, etc.—and as such there are always going to be preferential differences between reviewers.

However, the benefits of the compensated view are numerous enough that I'm almost positive most of the detractors who actually care to make things easier and more comparable for their viewers are likely going to switch to compensated (or calibrated, as we're trying to call it now) once they've acclimated. Remember, we as a community have already made this change before, when we moved from calibrated—specifically Tyll's "Independent of Direction" calibrated—measurements, to the "raw + target" paradigm we've had for the past few years thanks to people like Crin.

I'd like to briefly talk about one of my favorite things about this view: comparability.
By calibrating measurements to the rig-relevant Diffuse Field Head-Related Transfer Function (DF HRTF), we can much more easily compare measurements on different rigs.

Let's say you have a 711 measurement of an IEM, like the Mega5EST mentioned prior, but you want to compare it to an HD 650 (which of course, uses a different rig) and another well tuned IEM like the Truthear Hexa, of which you have a great measurement from the B&K Type 5128 thanks to Crin. What are you supposed to do? Overlay them raw?

graph (7).png


In my opinion, this view tells you basically nothing about how any of these actually sound in comparison to one another... which is a bummer.
However, if you calibrate each measurement to its rig-relevant DF HRTF, you are basically performing the equivalent of mic calibration—subtracting the response of the measurement microphone to—ideally—only show the response of the headphone or IEM on its own (plus whatever unique interaction it has with the rig, of course). Example shown below.

graph (9).png


The above is a more perceptually-relevant result, in my opinion. The major gaps in bass and treble are closed to be much more accurate to my perception, enough so that I'd be perfectly okay showing this graph to a friend if I needed a quick visual aid to assist in explaining why I find the Mega5EST to have similar treble issues to Hexa above 10kHz, while finding them both somewhat similar in the midrange.

Another example!
Even if you just had the same headphone on 3 different rigs, you'd find that the difference might be exaggerated or untrue to perception. Below are three HD 650s measured on three different (but totally viable, though the HMSii.3 is kinda suspect at times) rigs. Is the pink HD 650 really 6dB brighter at ~7kHz than the blue one?

graph (11).png


Well... no, it's an HD 650 and they should all measure rather similarly. DF calibration of these measurements (below) closes the gap in the advertised simulation range (up to 8-10kHz) to be much closer overall, narrowing that 6dB gap to be closer to 3dB.

graph (12).png


Of course, rigs—just like different human heads—are gonna have some funky interactions with the headphone itself that won't be calibrated away with any speaker-based HRTF baseline... but you'd actually want to see some of these differences to see how different people's heads might affect these headphones, right?

The "truth" of a headphone's performance might not be any one measurement, but it is likely floating around somewhere in the realm of the multiple results we can measure on different rigs (heads) with DF HRTF calibration. And with more heads, we get more data to refine our understanding of how a headphone might perform in a variety of circumstances.

This is just one of the many, many reasons we have for compensated viewing being superior. We have people on our writing staff using a variety of measurement rigs, all of which provide useful data, and we want this data to be as comparable as possible for those reading our reviews because more comparable measurements means we can get more close to the "truth" of how headphones and IEMs may perform for a variety of users.

While of course, plenty of people are now used to the "raw" paradigm, they will get used to this too. Yes, because we're making them, but you gotta crack a few eggs to make an omelet. I hope this helped explain at least part of our viewpoint and why we're insistent on getting people acclimated to this view as soon as possible. Thanks for reading. :)
 
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