The discovery thread!

[Jmop]

My DAPs over the years: SanDisk, Cownon A1, iBaso DX 50, Cowon D1.
They all have one thing in common: The UI is utterly rubbish. I will miss Cowon's extraordinary good EQ system. Proprietary of course.

The M3 Ultra is a 4.2 inch FULL Android 10 device. It can be used in 'prime' mode or Android. In 'prime' mode it's just a player, which is OK, but it lacks the finesse you get with UAPP or the Neutron player.
Sound is excellent, Shanling house - a bit warm and laid back. FiiO, iBasso and others sound cooler and more analytical to me.

I already own Shanling MW200 and the UP4 and BT connection (both ways) works flawlessly. LDAC.

So far everything I tried just worked.

Cannot speak to battery life just yet, that should last at least a day or so.

Cheers

Lol least favorite UI is my Cayin N3 (non pro). Talk about unintuitive, and I don’t even harp on UI really. Ok, old Hifiman players were pretty bad too lol.

 

[Carpet]

An SPD rundown from Akros (Kinera vs TRN)​

Watching now, but very reliable content provider!

 

[Jmop]

Maybe it’s just Shanling. All other DAPs in my collection (well, there is only one, the AP80 Pro X) and all music player apps do gapless playback correctly.

For me, the days of dongle (for my personal use) are over. So far, dongles are just not “enough” for me, either because of the smaller and flatter soundstage (e.g., Fiio KA3) or because they are stupidly loud with most IEMs (e.g., S9 Pro). I’m still looking forward for hear the RU6 (for that R2R goodness / crappiness) and M15 (the “best” dongle?). I’m also searching for something like Apple dongle (sensible amount of loudness and battery consumption), but actually sounds good rather than “adequate” to use with my iPhone. Still, when I am out and about, I’m happy with the Fiio FW5 + iPhone combo (big change in attitude since I don’t like the AirPods Pro at all, just like I don’t want to listen to my Aria)

If you were in continental US I’d send you my Tanchjim Stargate to try, I love it. Sounds glossy like RSA gear, low power consumption but good dynamics, no hiss.

 

[PhonoPhi]

Maybe it’s just Shanling. All other DAPs in my collection (well, there is only one, the AP80 Pro X) and all music player apps do gapless playback correctly.

For me, the days of dongle (for my personal use) are over. So far, dongles are just not “enough” for me, either because of the smaller and flatter soundstage (e.g., Fiio KA3) or because they are stupidly loud with most IEMs (e.g., S9 Pro). I’m still looking forward for hear the RU6 (for that R2R goodness / crappiness) and M15 (the “best” dongle?). I’m also searching for something like Apple dongle (sensible amount of loudness and battery consumption), but actually sounds good rather than “adequate” to use with my iPhone. Still, when I am out and about, I’m happy with the Fiio FW5 + iPhone combo (big change in attitude since I don’t like the AirPods Pro at all, just like I don’t want to listen to my Aria)

It is hard to justify the "DAP over dongle" case.
DAP is effectively a dongle + the battery + the screen + more powerful processor + the operating system.
All four add a lot to the cost without contributing to the sound.
The operating system is the weakest link - bugs, compatibility, licensing...
That is why Fiio left the segment of budget and mid- budget DAPs altogether.

Then how many $250+ DAPs an average audiophile can afford?

For the dongle "loudness", independent volume control is a very effective solution and are a must for top dongles. Alhough using software may be a reasonable solution to dongle loudness.

Lastly, dongles do not have battery problems, and most of the dongles are virtually unbreakable.

 

[552609]

It is hard to justify the "DAP over dongle" case.
DAP is effectively a dongle + the battery + the screen + more powerful processor + the operating system.
All four add a lot to the cost without contributing to the sound.
The operating system is the weakest link - bugs, compatibility, licensing...
That is why Fiio left the segment of budget and mid- budget DAPs altogether.

Then how many $250+ DAPs an average audiophile can afford?

For the dongle "loudness", independent volume control is a very effective solution and are a must for top dongles. Alhough using software may be a reasonable solution to dongle loudness.

Lastly, dongles do not have battery problems, and most of the dongles are virtually unbreakable.

Gonna have to disagree with you on that one. Think of the DAP as all of the required parts built my one company and put together with excellent synchronization and harmony with good chips and powerful amps that work with the other parts, and without any useless USB connections to get unplugged or weird software issues between a dongle and phone. All of the parts not only contribute ot the sound, but make it better than most phones witha dongle quite easily. Dongles most certainly have a battery problem - as in they drain the battery of your phone (which you use for things other than music I assume.)

I say all of this as someone who has tried multiple dongles that plugged into my Pixel 7, none of which have worked without issue, and some of which forced me to install their software that messed with my native Tidal (HiBy.) I have now ordered a cheap DAP (Shanling M3 Ultra) from Musicteck during their sale which will stream Tidal MQA (16x, which is more than most desktop DACs,) has 4.4mm balanced for iems and 3.5mm as well. It won't cut out because the USB C got jiggled, won't drain my phone battery, won't require me to install it's own software on my phone, won't interrupt my Tidal when I plug it into my car or want to stream in my house. I also don't have to swap between apps or share audio if I want to use my phone for other things. These are the reasons I bought a new DAC after selling my Fiio M11 Plus (that I thought I wouldn't use anymore - dummy.) Average audiophiles can afford a $250 DAP - this isn't a cheap hobby and you can use a DAP as a DAC/AMP for a desktop setup as well (my M11s was able to power all of my full-size headphones.) The End.

 

[552609]

Also, since this is a discovery thread: the JM Audio Editions XTC Open - My review: Click Me Current favorite headphones. DISCOVER!

 

[552609]

Happy new year, discovery folks! It was fun.

This year was interesting to me, hobby wise, since I started to receive some support from manufacturers in terms of samples and reviewer discount. Without their support, I would never be insane enough to go out and buy all multiple sources to try. The differences and, at the same time, similarities between sources were eye-opening. Best sources this year? Shanling M6 Ultra and Fiio K7.

Best IEM this year to me is the one that I expected to dislike, JD7. Yes, this is a sample that I received from Fiio to review. No, there is no incentive to push this IEM since even Fiio does not advertise them. It’s like they don’t want people to know there is a weird single-DD-in-FA7s-shell IEM to avoid confusion. Heck I even sunk extra money for bling bling cable and case to make the most of these IEMs. Best IEM below the Monarch II, IMHO.

My most surprising discovery is modern flathead earbuds. You know how we try very hard to find soundstage, natural tonality, comfort, resolution, etc.? Good flathead earbuds can give you all that at a fraction of IEM price. In fact, $200 is already considered TOTL in buds world, and boy do they trade blow with TOTL in IEM world. Have a try in 2023! They might be your end-game. Keep your eyes on Fiio and TGXear (made by our fellow head-fier @tgx78).

Small surprise: TWS can sound satisfying. I’m reviewing Fiio FW5. Yes, software is annoying. Yes, the fit might not work for some. But boy of boy they sound like a good semi-open IEM attached to an AKM DAP. The sound is so spacious and 3D that I can almost forgive the annoying software. Just almost.



I have only skimmed Resolve’s video, but I have absolutely zero interest in hearing anything from the PoS ER2SE shiller (or whatever he fancies nowadays). Now, I’m usually a moderate guy (I hope), so I allow myself an exception here Btw, on one hand, we have people who have skin in the game, who actually build measurement rig with genuine equipments, who get in touch with Sean Olive all the time. On the other hand, we have a guy with running mouth (and an empty head). I know who to listen to.

But yeah, target is closely tied to the measurement tool. You can’t compare the graphs from different rigs, so you can’t compare graph against target from a different rig either. That’s why you need to be careful when using the autoEQ function on squiglink.

Harman IE target, for example, was built on an IEC711 coupler, so they have no conclusion above 10k, thus they sloped everything down. Knowles redo the experiment with new coupler that is accurate to 20k and found that you need to add a big bump in air region (a.k.a. 64 Audio TIA treble style).

But which flatheads (can we just call these earbuds?) should we try? Also, TGXear has earbuds that go up to $325, so it seems like $200 isn't TOTL? Congrats on the manufacturer samples and discounts though! That's kinda the dream. Check out the Truthear HEXA if you haven't yet. Those are my IEMs of the year!

 

[jsmiller58]

Gonna have to disagree with you on that one. Think of the DAP as all of the required parts built my one company and put together with excellent synchronization and harmony with good chips and powerful amps that work with the other parts, and without any useless USB connections to get unplugged or weird software issues between a dongle and phone. All of the parts not only contribute ot the sound, but make it better than most phones witha dongle quite easily. Dongles most certainly have a battery problem - as in they drain the battery of your phone (which you use for things other than music I assume.)

I say all of this as someone who has tried multiple dongles that plugged into my Pixel 7, none of which have worked without issue, and some of which forced me to install their software that messed with my native Tidal (HiBy.) I have now ordered a cheap DAP (Shanling M3 Ultra) from Musicteck during their sale which will stream Tidal MQA (16x, which is more than most desktop DACs,) has 4.4mm balanced for iems and 3.5mm as well. It won't cut out because the USB C got jiggled, won't drain my phone battery, won't require me to install it's own software on my phone, won't interrupt my Tidal when I plug it into my car or want to stream in my house. I also don't have to swap between apps or share audio if I want to use my phone for other things. These are the reasons I bought a new DAC after selling my Fiio M11 Plus (that I thought I wouldn't use anymore - dummy.) Average audiophiles can afford a $250 DAP - this isn't a cheap hobby and you can use a DAP as a DAC/AMP for a desktop setup as well (my M11s was able to power all of my full-size headphones.) The End.

You make excellent points, but there is also the use case aspect… Carrying around a DAP and phone can be cumbersome. I have a HiBy R6 Pro which I rarely actually use because it is another big item to carry around. I have quite a few dongles (favorites being Lotoo S1, L&P W2, and Shanling UA5) but in part because of the fiddly cable connections, but largely because when I have to handle the phone having the dongle hang off of it is inconvenient (not to mention a pain to pull out of my pocket) I never even use them any longer. For me the BTR7 is the best compromise between sound quality and convenience. Note that I used the word “compromise”. But in the end that’s just me, and others may be driven by other values in their use cases.

 

[FlacFan]

Thanks, mate!

The battery should last quite a while. Shanling told me that the M3U is optimised for battery life and size for every day carry. Don’t quote me, but I remember it should last nearly 20 hours? (Or is it the Hiby player R5 something?)

It’s a shame that the prime mode only works with Shanling player. I personally use Fiio player app and use the app pinning feature to make my own “prime” mode (Learned the pinning trick from Super* Review).

Do you have any delay with bluetooth? The delay with LDAC on my M6U is quite bad, so I cannot use the player as a DAC to watch YouTube video with my phone. A bit disappointing.

You have to see the prime mode as an isolated virtual machine running on that DAP. A core Android is still running that. You can run the Shanling player in non prime as a regular app as well. There is no difference.
It is the nature of LDAC to have delay when watching video, any LL codes are better suited in those cases.

BTW, there is a thread for the M3U and we're better off, discussing it over there.

Cheers..

 

[552609]

You make excellent points, but there is also the use case aspect… Carrying around a DAP and phone can be cumbersome. I have a HiBy R6 Pro which I rarely actually use because it is another big item to carry around. I have quite a few dongles (favorites being Lotoo S1, L&P W2, and Shanling UA5) but in part because of the fiddly cable connections, but largely because when I have to handle the phone having the dongle hang off of it is inconvenient (not to mention a pain to pull out of my pocket) I never even use them any longer. For me the BTR7 is the best compromise between sound quality and convenience. Note that I used the word “compromise”. But in the end that’s just me, and others may be driven by other values in their use cases.

Good point, though I have carried both. I just picked up the MEST mk2 though and I see a DAP as the only way to really enjoy them because desktop amps rarely come with 4.4mm. Also, I plan on using them sitting on my couch playing videogames I don't care about the sound on. I've been doing that with a dongle and it's just really annoying. Also, the HiBy app forces me to swipe to unlock my phone AFTER I've already unlocked my phone. I thought playing off my phone was a good idea, and now I'm just really tired of it. This way I also have anough power/output jacks to use my fullsize headphones with the DAP so I can do some review listening while playing Pokemon Scarlet haha.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

But which flatheads (can we just call these earbuds?) should we try? Also, TGXear has earbuds that go up to $325, so it seems like $200 isn't TOTL? Congrats on the manufacturer samples and discounts though! That's kinda the dream. Check out the Truthear HEXA if you haven't yet. Those are my IEMs of the year!

Yea HEXA is currently benchmarking stone for all brands to contest for neutral segment.

Btw Truthear may come up with Chu class entry level challenge soon

 

[PhonoPhi]

Gonna have to disagree with you on that one. Think of the DAP as all of the required parts built my one company and put together with excellent synchronization and harmony with good chips and powerful amps that work with the other parts, and without any useless USB connections to get unplugged or weird software issues between a dongle and phone. All of the parts not only contribute ot the sound, but make it better than most phones witha dongle quite easily. Dongles most certainly have a battery problem - as in they drain the battery of your phone (which you use for things other than music I assume.)

I say all of this as someone who has tried multiple dongles that plugged into my Pixel 7, none of which have worked without issue, and some of which forced me to install their software that messed with my native Tidal (HiBy.) I have now ordered a cheap DAP (Shanling M3 Ultra) from Musicteck during their sale which will stream Tidal MQA (16x, which is more than most desktop DACs,) has 4.4mm balanced for iems and 3.5mm as well. It won't cut out because the USB C got jiggled, won't drain my phone battery, won't require me to install it's own software on my phone, won't interrupt my Tidal when I plug it into my car or want to stream in my house. I also don't have to swap between apps or share audio if I want to use my phone for other things. These are the reasons I bought a new DAC after selling my Fiio M11 Plus (that I thought I wouldn't use anymore - dummy.) Average audiophiles can afford a $250 DAP - this isn't a cheap hobby and you can use a DAP as a DAC/AMP for a desktop setup as well (my M11s was able to power all of my full-size headphones.) The End.

How many of these small companies make all the components and have all the resources for hardware integration and for the development of well-tested smooth software for "perfect synchronization"?
Most common experience is to have all the glitches in DAPs and patches of the patches.

For the compatibility, with 25+ dongles, I only have problems with iBasso DC04.

For the battery drain, the most outrageously consuming dongle (Muse M3 with its idle 200 mA) still does not cause battery drain comparable with that of the screen on my not overly powerful old S10 phone.

Apple dongle uses less power that the external DAC, and many of the smaller dongles use around 20-30 mA.

Overall, again, it makes most sense to me to use the best developed, and mass-produced to reduce the cost, components for the sound chain: the recent operating system on the phone, powerful processor, good screen, any software of your choice to work with the DAC of your choice, and, lastly, the great modularity of using multiple DACs for different flavours of the sound rendering and synergy with different IEMs, which I enjoy greatly.

 

[o0genesis0o]

It is hard to justify the "DAP over dongle" case.
DAP is effectively a dongle + the battery + the screen + more powerful processor + the operating system.
All four add a lot to the cost without contributing to the sound.
The operating system is the weakest link - bugs, compatibility, licensing...
That is why Fiio left the segment of budget and mid- budget DAPs altogether.

Then how many $250+ DAPs an average audiophile can afford?

For the dongle "loudness", independent volume control is a very effective solution and are a must for top dongles. Alhough using software may be a reasonable solution to dongle loudness.

Lastly, dongles do not have battery problems, and most of the dongles are virtually unbreakable.

DAP is definitely not a cost effective way to have high quality source. It is a luxury gizmo. When I pick up my Shanling DAP, I try to make it a treat after a long day, rather than just background noise (pretentious, I know ) The M6U is unique in the way that it matches the soundstage and resolution of my desktop K7, and add that Shanling house sound on top. Not all DAPs can do that (AP80 Pro X certainly can’t even with heavy EQ), and in my experience, only 1 dongle can nearly do that (S9 Pro, with the loudness problem and extreme battery drain).

If you want to bring K7 level sound in your pocket, Topping G5 would be the most cost effective. I haven’t tried the BTR7, but that device might come close as well. No idea for now.

In this day and age, one get a DAP because one wants a DAP, not because one needs good sound that only a DAP can provide, IMHO.

But which flatheads (can we just call these earbuds?) should we try? Also, TGXear has earbuds that go up to $325, so it seems like $200 isn't TOTL? Congrats on the manufacturer samples and discounts though! That's kinda the dream. Check out the Truthear HEXA if you haven't yet. Those are my IEMs of the year!

I personally recommend Fiio FF5, though earbuds fans swear by TGXear Serratus and Ripples. You can’t go wrong with any of these, tbh. Just be careful that Serratus has a spicy mid treble peak that can sound painful on some tracks (that’s why I pick FF5)

Regarding sample, I guess it’s a token of trust from both manufacturers and community. I follow the approach of another reviewer (I think Mr Ichos?) that samples belong to manufacturers, not mine. I can use it to review and future A/B, but they are not my property to sell or giveaway.

I’m quite curious to hear Hexa, but at the same time do not feel super excited. I could be wrong (as always), as JD7 turned out indispensable in my collection.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Japanese Blogger’s Kiwi Ear Cadenza review.

TD; DL
Tuning:
“impression is that the low range is slightly thicker than the so-called Harman target balance, and the direction is similar to the sound creation of "HZSOUND HeartMirror Pro" and HBB's collaboration earphones (such as "TRIPOWIN Mele" and "TRI KAI"). feel the approach. It's a listening tuning that makes sense why the product page describes it as a "sound signature based on today's audiophiles." In addition, the characteristics of beryllium (coated) diaphragms, such as high-speed response, transparency in the mid-high range, and impact in the low range, are reflected in their own way, so you can enjoy relatively high-quality sound at a low price. .”

Overall:
“To be honest, it doesn't have the resolution you'd expect from a beryllium (coated) lens, but the response is good, and the localization produced by the natural separation gives a good quality feel for the same price range. I think it's a sound that you can fully enjoy unless you're nervous listening, such as for monitoring purposes.”

Pretty fair assessment.

 

[552609]

Well, since it's still the 1st of Jan here, and other people did their products of the year, I'll throw mine out here as well:

Best DAC: Schiit Bifrost 2/64 (Burson Conductor 3XP is a close 2nd, Fiio K9 pro ESS is a far 3rd)

Best Amp: Schiit Jotunheim 2 (better than the Burson's dang fiddly knob, similar performance)

Best Mobile DAC/AMP: ifi Micro idsd Signature (this thing is great, but not overly portable)

Best Dongle: HiBy FC3 (only one I got to work, and it's not great)

Best IEM: Truthear HEXA (Symphonium Meteor was a close second, but 7x as expensive, Raptgo Hook X in 3rd, MEST hasn't come in yet)

Best full-size Headphone: JM Audio XTC-O (Rosson RAD-0 as a close second for 3x the price, Hifiman HE-1000 v in 3rd)

Best Wireless Full-size Headphone: Bowers and Wilkins PX8 (the Bathys and 5909 are both slightly better sounding, but far less livable/annoying)

Best DAP: FIIO M11 Plus (only one I tried, Shanling M3U on the way)

Best Cable: Corpse Cable Gravedigger (great sound and connection for XLR4, but it has some microphonics, which is annoying - Moon Audio Silver Dragon, far second place)

I think that's about it, feel free to message me if you have questions