The discovery thread!

[Redcarmoose]

To be fair even the same iem can sound like a new iem given some of the differences I experienced purchasing second pairs of some of my iems for my kids. I hated the Mele so gave it to my son since he enjoyed it then just bought a second pair after hearing it might be discontinued and it is different than the first pair. I just recently experienced that with the Dioko too. I didn't understand all the comments about the lack of bass but when my daughter asked for a pair she didn't like hers and claimed it was different than my pair. It sounded noticeably different. So much so she was able to catch it off of the couple times she used my pair nearly a week before. They might as well just start making those outliers special editions if they are just going to do these minor changes. lol

I wouldn’t be surprised. Though the factual information here provided by subjective interpretations, is the vary fabric of Head-Fi. With that said, I have only heard one pair of Dioko IEMs. You do realize too, your daughter has better ears than us! Only she may not able to conceptualize as well, she knows what bass is! I would suggest that the variation between IEMs of the same name is greater than we realize, yet everyone says the same thing about the Dioko in the end. About it’s timbre and about it’s lack of bass notes. The note weight is in trouble too. In fact, I found no possible way to remedy my pair, no amp, tips or cable helped bring it back from utter boredom!

 

[r31ya]

We have budget Oxygen via Hana v2
Then we got budget Hana v2 via Olina (se)
Now we have budget olina via Wan'er?

 

[JAnonymous5150]

I wouldn’t be surprised. Though the factual information here provided by subjective interpretations, is the vary fabric of Head-Fi. With that said, I have only heard one pair of Dioko IEMs. You do realize too, your daughter has better ears than us! Only she may not able to conceptualize as well, she knows what bass is! I would suggest that the variation between IEMs of the same name is greater than we realize, yet everyone says the same thing about the Dioko in the end. About it’s timbre and about it’s lack of bass notes. The note weight is in trouble too. In fact, I found no possible way to remedy my pair, no amp, tips or cable helped bring it back from utter boredom!

So I have a quick question, given what you've said here about the Dioko do you still stand by your 4.5 star review of it on head-fi or are these new, more negative feelings because your initial enthusiasm has been tempered over time?

I only ask because I was reading your comments and thought I remembered you and a few of the other reviewers that frequent this thread rating it pretty highly. At the time I was reading those reviews I had already resold the Diokos I ordered because I thought they were a very flawed set and I remember thinking that I must be crazy if so many popular/well reapected reviewers think so highly of it. Now that I'm reading your comments on it today, they seem much more in line with my own thoughts on the Dioko which got me wondering if you'd still rate it that highly. Just curious.

Edit: Spelling. Sorry, typing on my phone with big caveman thumbs.

P.S. The ThieAudio Excaliburs I just picked up are VERY good and I got a great deal. They sound exactly how I expected them to from having owned the Oracle.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Designed and assembled does not mean the parts and shells were made in the U.S. By that phrase, they are not. Designs are on a computer in Oregon and then emailed to a manufacturer in Asia. Parts made in Asia, then shipped to Oregon where they are "assembled".

You guys both misunderstood me. I believe they say that to point out that they have their parts made by OEMs in China and then assemble them here. I'm essentially agreeing with you and Red and not contradicting what you are saying here. I hope that clarifies.

Edit: I thought my original posts said that, but I'm sorry if they weren't clear. I just reread them though and I'm not sure how I could have said it differently.

 

[Mrcrunch08]

So I have a quick question, given what you've said here about the Dioko do you still stand by your 4.5 star review of it on head-fi or are these new, more negative feelings because your initial enthusiasm has been tenpered over time?

I only ask because I was reading your comments and thought I remembered you and a few of the other reviewers that frequent this thread rating it pretty highly. At the time I was reading those reviews I had already resold the Diokos I ordered because I thought they were a very flawed set and I remember thinking that I must be crazy if so many popular/well reapected reviewers think so highly of it. Now that I'm reading your comments on it today, they seem much more in line with my own thoughts on the Dioko which got me wondering if you'd still rate it that highly. Just curious.

I still stand by my opinion for my pair. I probably wouldn't have been so impressed if I got the pair my daughter did first though. I would have found the bass lacking but my opinion of it's technicalities for the price would remain the same. I still feel both are well worth the price and class leading in some areas. I don't think I would have been as enthusiastic but I can't say for certain. Like I mentioned, the Dioko wasn't the only time I heard two of the same headphones or iems sound a little different. It just seems to be something I experienced more with iems than I have with headphones. Unit variation is real and without being able to graph both I have no way of knowing if the pair I have is the anomaly or if it's my daughters. I had the same experience with the Mele and others. With the Mele the difference seemed to impact the technicalities while it was more a slight frequency difference with the Dioko.

 

[o0genesis0o]

ThieAudio Andromedas

Lol what?

 

[Redcarmoose]

So I have a quick question, given what you've said here about the Dioko do you still stand by your 4.5 star review of it on head-fi or are these new, more negative feelings because your initial enthusiasm has been tenpered over time?

I only ask because I was reading your comments and thought I remembered you and a few of the other reviewers that frequent this thread rating it pretty highly. At the time I was reading those reviews I had already resold the Diokos I ordered because I thought they were a very flawed set and I remember thinking that I must be crazy if so many popular/well reapected reviewers think so highly of it. Now that I'm reading your comments on it today, they seem much more in line with my own thoughts on the Dioko which got me wondering if you'd still rate it that highly. Just curious.

My review stands as factual representation of my thoughts. And if you read it vary carefully you will note that, yes for $99, it’s OK. While my subjective ideas are about the three concerns, 1 Bass, 2 Note Weight and 3 Timbre were outlined as the main issues when the review was first posted. And again I have tried to like it more, by revisiting it again and again, even trying various amps, cables and IEM ear-tips. My score is based on sound value per dollar spent. The score is about correct, but I’m also considering those who maybe will want the vocal centric signature that it contains? Also more IEMs have come!

But if you read every word I wrote, the issues at hand are blatant, and spelled out with-out confusion in my review. In fact the Salnotes Zero was a review I wrote right before it, and surprise, surprise I gave the Zero better marks........and it ends my preference as far as IEMs go. Yep, I will take the $19.99 Zero over the Dioko $99.00 anytime. I wrote the Zero review before the Dioko, and will explain now.....while the Dioko is not a bad IEM, it’s not great, though it may be great as a gateway into planar vile? Remember the Celest hadn’t come out yet. I rate the Dioko below the Celest too. Actually......no, I don’t read other reviewers thoughts on the Dioko as high in regards to the musicality? I’m pretty sure my thoughts are not singular in style. But remember this whole hobby is gray, where some see it as a shade closer to white and others see the progress of new IEMs as having a response closer to a shade of black. No, the Dioko is not that popular or held in that high of regard among reviewers! It’s just a window into planar traits, that while less sloppy than the Celest, I would rather have the Celest. The Celest has more soul, where the Dioko is rather heartless. So maybe my ideas as to the Dioko have changed a little, more stuff has come out, I found out about the $50 more Zetain Wu, which would be my ultimate Planar IEM purchase!

Edit:
While studying the shape of the Dioko, in hindsight....it’s probably a worse form-factor than estimated in my review. Meaning I can only get correct fit with a single pair of ear-tips......that’s the way it’s always been for me. I wonder what I would have done with-out those ear-tips? I have a lot of ear-tips. At times I use 8 different pairs of favorite ear-tips with an IEM.

I think my opinion on the look and shape has diminished since (the review) due to having gone on to further read of people’s experiences with the shape? Believe me, I normally don’t have fit issues, I can fit most IEMs, but the Dioko has a wedge of glass adding a counter-weight which causes an off-hanging phenomenon. The weight is not close to the ear?

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Lol what?

LOL fixed! Can you tell I was writing about the Andros in a PM just before attempting to gush about my Excaliburs?

 

[o0genesis0o]

LOL fixed! Can you tell I was writing about the Andros in a PM just before attempting to gush about my Excaliburs?

Looking forward for your impressions. That IEM is almost non-existent as far as the community goes.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

My review stands as factual representation of my thoughts. And if you read it vary carefully you will note that, yes for $99, it’s OK. While my subjective ideas are about the three concerns, 1 Bass, 2 Note Weight and 3 Timbre were outlined as the main issues when the review was first posted. And again I have tried to like it more, by revisiting it again and again, even trying various amps, cables and IEM ear-tips. My score is based on sound value per dollar spent. The score is about correct, but I’m also considering those who maybe will want the vocal centric signature that it contains? Also more IEMs have come!

But if you read every word I wrote, the issues at hand are blatant, and spelled out with-out confusion in my review. In fact the Salnotes Zero was a review I wrote right before it, and surprise, surprise I gave the Zero better marks........and it ends my preference as far as IEMs go. Yep, I will take the $19.99 Zero over the Dioko $99.00 anytime. I wrote the Zero review before the Dioko, and will explain now.....while the Dioko is not a bad IEM, it’s not great, though it may be great as a gateway into planar vile? Remember the Celest hadn’t come out yet. I rate the Dioko below the Celest too. Actually......no, I don’t read other reviewers thoughts on the Dioko as high in regards to the musicality? I’m pretty sure my thoughts are not singular in style. But remember this whole hobby is gray, where some see it as a shade closer to white and others see the progress of new IEMs as having a response closer to a shade of black. No, the Dioko is not that popular or held in that high of regard among reviewers! It’s just a window into planar traits, that while less sloppy than the Celest, I would rather have the Celest. The Celest has more soul, where the Dioko is rather heartless. So maybe my ideas as to the Dioko have changed a little, more stuff has come out, I found out about the $50 more Zetain Wu, which would be my ultimate Planar IEM purchase!

Yeah, I remember reading it and I remember you bringing up these issues. You just seemed to be more critical of them here than in your review so I was wondering if your rating had changed. That's all. I definitely wasn't trying to call you out in any way. It just occurred to me that if I had only read your comments on this thread today, I never would have guessed they were being made by the same guy who gave the Diokos a 4.5. I get what you're saying though and FWIW the upside is that I enjoy and respect your opinions enough to read and remember your reviews. That has to count for something right?

 

[Redcarmoose]

Yeah, I remember reading it and I remember you bringing up these issues. You just seemed to be more critical of them here than in your review so I was wondering if your rating had changed. That's all. I definitely wasn't trying to call you out in any way. It just occurred to me that if I had only read your comments on this thread today, I never would have guessed they were being made by the same guy who gave the Diokos a 4.5. I get what you're saying though and FWIW the upside is that I enjoy and respect your opinions enough to read and remember your reviews. That has to count for something right?

Well the farther we get from the review time, the more planar IEMs emerge. Then a clear picture of the Dioko relationship reality starts to form. Meaning it’s incredibly detailed for the money and still is. It’s just that the detail comes with baggage. Look how many more planars have come out since the Dioko in the short time since introduction! So in a way, the more planar IEMs we experience, the more relative our thoughts. Slightly?

In simple words “the Zetain Wu” destroyed the Dioko!

And....the Wu is only $134.10 USD now!

The Dioko is $84.15 USD now!

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Looking forward for your impressions. That IEM is almost non-existent as far as the community goes.

I know and it's a shame. I have owned or own the Monarch OG, Monarch Mk2, the Oracles, and now the Excaliburs and I think the Excaliburs are a very engaging set that I think actually has superior technical performance than the Oracles from memory anyways. I think because it has the slightly v shaped tuning a lot of the audiophile crowd likes to say that it must somehow be worse. I, on the other hand, think it holds its own with its siblings very tidily. I'll save any more in depth impressions for another time when I have had more listening time with the Excaliburs since I just got them on Saturday.

The upshot of them being overlooked is that you can find them for very reasonable prices on the used market on the rare-ish occasions when they pop up. It seems that those who do enjoy them tend to hang on to them, at least so far. Until I scored these I had been keeping an eye out for a set for months since I sold my Oracles with the intention of picking up a pair of these. So far they seem well worth the wait.

 

[brsdrgn]

For the first time, this year I'll skip black friday deals. There was a post here or in another thread talking about the crazy amount of IEMs released under sub 100 which doesn't bring any wow effect. And I agree with that. I've been chasing some sets which received good feedbacks and I went for TSMR Land in second hand market.

I'll contradict with myself by saying this but I'm tired of dealing with budget priced ones. It used to be nice but now, there are too many releases. My preference went from having more to having a few that sounds really good.

I remember the posts of people here who went down the same road. I was saying I enjoy discovering. Some folks might remember that I was sharing new impressions very often here. However, in time you get more matured and understand that these companies crazily pumping the market, trying to make people hyped and go for another new set. They play with the very tricky side of the human psychology, impulsiveness or the impulsive urge that comes with fomo.


I'm sorry but it got out of control this year. It's too much. It's really too much. I used to see a new type of driver storming the market every year and every company was trying to grab a bite from the market pie. I'm excluding some rare companies like KZ. They were always focusing on the budget and releasing more often. They got more crazy also but I just don't take them as strange as I'm used to their 'pile them high sell them cheap' strategy.

Now companies rushes like crazy to release new IEMs. They're scared to miss it and we see mistakes more often than before (filter issues, wrong tunings, qc problems etc.). Even from the companies like Moondrop for example. It's nice to see them making their own planar driver rather than just purchasing an planar driver from another producer, making it slightly different or adding different modes making it unbearably bright to differentiate themselves a little. It's also good to see Moondrop will send replacement. But why the rush? Well, you know the answer. Maybe it's better to wait a little longer. Maybe it's good to ask some experts. Send them the set and ask for a honest feedback. Give them all the allowance to criticize your IEMs so that you'll know your mistake and don't make your customers victimized while holding their money.

I also see lots of collaborations. Too many that it lost its unique value. Tuning an iem by a collaborator is just telling the company 'hey look this is my target, tune it somehow close to it and I'll be fine with getting my money'. It's not even perfectly fitting their self claimed target. We saw more bass than their target, brighter, or darker ones. It's funny that it's usually the case that they get their money not from each sale but just in one payment. If the company says 'Look! You'll earn if this goes well. If not, I lose and you lose. So, let's make sth truly good'. I'm not saying that all collaborations are like this. There are good ones. There are probably different agreements. But I'm looking at the bigger picture.


Another thing: The graphs rule the market. The pure nature of drivers is forgotten. Single DD, Planar, any kind of hybrid Tribid... All are being forced to an target. For example, giving an elevation in the ultra high end to a single DD might increase its air and might sound just fine but that may not be the case for a planar driver that may sound harsher from it's design structure. It might be even the case for the same type drivers but different brands. Take BAs. I don't wanna mention the brands. A boost in the treble might be handled just fine by one type BA meanwhile making the another thin, metallic sounding. This goes like this forever. Giving the responsibility to a piezo but tuning it the same way as BA might add spices to the timbre...


What's tuning? What does an acoustic engineer do in the company while tuning the iem? What does an reviewer do while tuning the iem? You might say their expertise is limited. Of course, that's true. However, there are questions :

Do they give long listening sessions?
Do they compare back and forth between the another really successful IEM which is exactly in the same price range?
Do they want to compete? For me this is really important. They avoid doing this. Everyone is trying not to hurt another. Just grab a piece from the market and that's fine.

On the other hand, customers are reading reviews like crazy thinking which one is to go. And agree or not, each of them just slightly different in their price bracket literally offering not much of a difference. Collaborations doesn't mean much anymore and going for a non-collaborative IEM won't be a big mistake.

Eventually, companies are not stupid. They'll not target the market which is lower than the audio quality that their IEMs give of course. They'll disturb slightly maybe.

It's nice to see the competition. It's nice to see more offers. But seeing too many releases, even from the same company itself for the same price range will make them hesitant.

Maybe you heard/read about the experiment on the customers. They put three different flavors of a product on the shelves. The customer comes, easily chooses one, and leaves. The problem starts when they put 20 different flavors. The customers comes and struggles which one to buy eventually ending up not purchasing any of them. This experiment may not be applicable on every aspect of the sales of course. A person might know what's their absolute favorite. However, if you look at the general result, you see the sales drop.

It's in nature of human.

It's hesitancy/doubtfulness... And it freezes...

And the customer is smart, he/she will wait...

 

[WAON303]

Looking forward for your impressions. That IEM is almost non-existent as far as the community goes.

Don't know why this IEM was forgotten in favor of the Oracle?

Crinacle featured the Excalibur in his EST IEM shootout, you'd think this shoutout would garner some interest.

 

[o0genesis0o]

For the first time, this year I'll skip black friday deals. There was a post here or in another thread talking about the crazy amount of IEMs released under sub 100 which doesn't bring any wow effect. And I agree with that. I've been chasing some sets which received good feedbacks and I went for TSMR Land in second hand market.

I'll contradict with myself by saying this but I'm tired of dealing with budget priced ones. It used to be nice but now, there are too many releases. My preference went from having more to having a few that sounds really good.

I remember the posts of people here who went down the same road. I was saying I enjoy discovering. Some folks might remember that I was sharing new impressions very often here. However, in time you get more matured and understand that these companies crazily pumping the market, trying to make people hyped and go for another new set. They play with the very tricky side of the human psychology, impulsiveness or the impulsive urge that comes with fomo.


I'm sorry but it got out of control this year. It's too much. It's really too much. I used to see a new type of driver storming the market every year and every company was trying to grab a bite from the market pie. I'm excluding some rare companies like KZ. They were always focusing on the budget and releasing more often. They got more crazy also but I just don't take them as strange as I'm used to their 'pile them high sell them cheap' strategy.

Now companies rushes like crazy to release new IEMs. They're scared to miss it and we see mistakes more often than before (filter issues, wrong tunings, qc problems etc.). Even from the companies like Moondrop for example. It's nice to see them making their own planar driver rather than just purchasing an planar driver from another producer, making it slightly different or adding different modes making it unbearably bright to differentiate themselves a little. It's also good to see Moondrop will send replacement. But why the rush? Well, you know the answer. Maybe it's better to wait a little longer. Maybe it's good to ask some experts. Send them the set and ask for a honest feedback. Give them all the allowance to criticize your IEMs so that you'll know your mistake and don't make your customers victimized while holding their money.

I also see lots of collaborations. Too many that it lost its unique value. Tuning an iem by a collaborator is just telling the company 'hey look this is my target, tune it somehow close to it and I'll be fine with getting my money'. It's not even perfectly fitting their self claimed target. We saw more bass than their target, brighter, or darker ones. It's funny that it's usually the case that they get their money not from each sale but just in one payment. If the company says 'Look! You'll earn if this goes well. If not, I lose and you lose. So, let's make sth truly good'. I'm not saying that all collaborations are like this. There are good ones. There are probably different agreements. But I'm looking at the bigger picture.


Another thing: The graphs rule the market. The pure nature of drivers is forgotten. Single DD, Planar, any kind of hybrid Tribid... All are being forced to an target. For example, giving an elevation in the ultra high end to a single DD might increase its air and might sound just fine but that may not be the case for a planar driver that may sound harsher from it's design capacity. It might be even the case for the same type drivers but different brands. Take BAs. I don't wanna mention the brands. A boost in the treble might be handled just fine by one type BA meanwhile making the another thin, metallic sounding. This goes like this forever. Giving the responsibility to a piezo but tuning it the same way as BA might add spices to the timbre...


What's tuning? What does an acoustic engineer do in the company while tuning the iem? What does an reviewer do while tuning the iem? You might say their expertise is limited. Of course, that's true. However, there are questions :

Do they give long listening sessions?
Do they compare back and forth between the another really successful IEM which is exactly in the same price range?
Do they want to compete? For me this is really important. They avoid doing this. Everyone is trying not to hurt another. Just grab a piece from the market and that's fine.

On the other hand, customers are reading reviews like crazy thinking which one is to go. And agree or not, each of them just slightly different in their price bracket literally offering not much of a difference. Collaborations doesn't mean much anymore and going for a non-collaborative IEM won't be a big mistake.

Eventually, companies are not stupid. They'll not target the market which is lower than the audio quality that their IEMs give of course. They'll disturb slightly maybe.

It's nice to see the competition. It's nice to see more offers. But seeing too many releases, even from the same company itself for the same price range will make them hesitant.

Maybe you heard/read about the experiment on the customers. They put three different flavors of a product on the shelves. The customer comes, easily chooses one, and leaves. The problem starts when they put 20 different flavors. The customers comes and struggles which one to buy eventually ending up not purchasing any of them. This experiment may not be applicable on every aspect of the sales of course. A person might know what's their absolute favorite. However, if you look at the general result, you see the sales drop.

It's in nature of human.

It's hesitancy/doubtfulness... And it freezes...

Amd the customer is smart, he/she will wait...

Totally agree, mate!

I looked at 11.11 of Hifigo, Linsoul, and Shenzhen audio this morning. And then I looked at the non-deal stuffs to see if anything new. And you know what? For the first time I didn’t feel super compelled to buy anything for review, at least in the budget range. That’s why I tend to say that @Redcarmoose is an unusual guy for being able to keep that enthusiasm level when having access to so many IEMs.

I did see a sweet deal of Oracle Mk2 + a portable dac/amp for 899 though.

Oh well, Vietnamese has a saying “the market is still crowded without your aunt”. The market seems to go strong and would adjust itself anyway.

Meanwhile, stay tuned for Smabat M4, Hidizs XO, and (possibly) Fiio JD7 review from me (shameless publicity )