The discovery thread!

[mndless]

Also, in comparison to headphones there is relatively less need for oversized drivers/diaphragms as the sound is not captured by the outer ear (incoming reflections being captured at different angles etc). Different driver/diaphragm designs experience break up at different levels of torture too. However, I believe there is still a general minimal requirement about its size due to the constraints of physics; unsure of where it lies though (unlike in microphones where it has been explained and agreed upon)

I don't think it was necessarily due to the physical requirements of the driver diaphragm size, but it does seem that the accepted driver size is 10mm or larger for sub-bass to mids performance in a hybrid configuration and 8mm or smaller for mids to treble performance in a multi-DD configuration. High excursion drivers are challenging to maintain any significant agility in, as it can be difficult to design a magnet structure and voice coil in such a small package that can generate a strong enough flux to net you that excursion when you're using a driver with significant mechanical spring force, so you'd be looking to use a driver with a more flexible surround with less mechanical spring force and rely primarily on electrical spring force to pull the driver back to its nominal state. You tend to lose agility and "texture" when you go this route, but it can result in incredibly deep bass with a very "warm", "smooth", "honeyed" quality to it. When you opt for a driver with comparatively low mechanical spring force, then the role that the enclosure design plays is more pronounced, but still not as noticeable as in actual loudspeaker designs, since a lot of the theories and calculations don't scale accurately down to that form factor.

Basically, if you want to use an incredibly stiff driver to give you strong bass performance, you want it to be as large as you can fit in the shell. It gets more complicated, of course, since the larger driver can typically produce higher volume output in the higher frequency range than you ideally want, so you've got to tune it well or cross it over with other complementary drivers.

 

[mndless]

For myself I think 12mm isn't necessary for tight extended bass. I've heard smaller drivers/diaphragms capable of producing that

have you by chance heard the Dunu Titan 6? I think it's got a 14mm beryllium coated dynamic, but I don't think I've seen any reviews of it floating around.

 

[430633]

have you by chance heard the Dunu Titan 6? I think it's got a 14mm beryllium coated dynamic, but I don't think I've seen any reviews of it floating around.

I have heard the Titan 1 and Fiio EX1, EX1 gen 2 and F5, but not the Titan 6 although I was really interested in it. Reason was the graphs from this site https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/dunu-titan-6.php#gsc.tab=0 compared to other IEMs I was eyeing as well

 

[430633]

It doesn't look like it will be a major improvement over the F5 which cost significantly less that I have. Its frequency response is a little risky, it has significant driver impulse ringing, the step response isn't as nice as the F5's and it still has terrible resonance issues which show up in the QSD/CSD of its right driver. The mismatch with its left driver (which performs better) doesn't exactly instill confidence either

 

[mndless]

I have heard the Titan 1 and Fiio EX1, EX1 gen 2 and F5, but not the Titan 6 although I was really interested in it. Reason was the graphs from this site https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/dunu-titan-6.php#gsc.tab=0 compared to other IEMs I was eyeing as well

It looks like @CK Moustache did a review of them a while back and didn't find their performance to be worthwhile, mostly because the driver wasn't ideally suited for treble performance or it just wasn't tuned properly for that application. It does look like a strong contender if the rear chamber is ported to act as a sub-bass and bass driver in a hybrid config. I think the Dunu EST112 uses a larger driver that they based off what they learned with the Titan 6. Though I have heard some complaints that the EST112 could stand to have more texture in its sub-bass and bass performance, so maybe they ended up making the driver too large or the diaphragm too heavy with the two-sided beryllium coating. I don't really know, and I can't fit them in my ears anyway, so there's no point in me considering purchasing them, even if their cable is excellent.

 

[430633]

It looks like @CK Moustache did a review of them a while back and didn't find their performance to be worthwhile, mostly because the driver wasn't ideally suited for treble performance or it just wasn't tuned properly for that application. It does look like a strong contender if the rear chamber is ported to act as a sub-bass and bass driver in a hybrid config. I think the Dunu EST112 uses a larger driver that they based off what they learned with the Titan 6. Though I have heard some complaints that the EST112 could stand to have more texture in its sub-bass and bass performance, so maybe they ended up making the driver too large or the diaphragm too heavy with the two-sided beryllium coating. I don't really know, and I can't fit them in my ears anyway, so there's no point in me considering purchasing them, even if their cable is excellent.

From experience, generally for IEMs there is little reason to look back unless you are after a specific, particular sound signature that you already know of and want. In the past few years they have improved so much, my IEMs which were considered good from around 2012 are mostly unlistenable now

 

[JEHL]

I wonder what happens at 5kHz on the otherwise excellent MDR-EX1000 as well.

 

[mndless]

From experience, generally for IEMs there is little reason to look back unless you are after a specific, particular sound signature that you already know of and want. In the past few years they have improved so much, my IEMs which were considered good from around 2012 are mostly unlistenable now

That does certainly seem to be the case. The only ones that seem particularly worthwhile might be some of the Sony XBA series, but even then, the newer models are objectively superior and the old ones aren't so cheap on the resale market that it's worth choosing them instead.

 

[430633]

That does certainly seem to be the case. The only ones that seem particularly worthwhile might be some of the Sony XBA series, but even then, the newer models are objectively superior and the old ones aren't so cheap on the resale market that it's worth choosing them instead.

By the XBA series, do you mean the XBA-1, 2, 3 and 4?

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Wait wait wait..so which is it? Are the Lofty's treble impaired or are they treble monsters. They can't be both ways. I owned the NM2+, and those were godsmacked with treble, to the point where those offended even my very treble toleration. So either the graphs are full of s--t on the Lofty's, or the reviews are full of s--t. Again, it can't go both ways, folks.

 

[mndless]

By the XBA series, do you mean the XBA-1, 2, 3 and 4?

The H2 and H3 have decent graphs, but the A2 and A3, the A3 in particular, are just better. But then there's the N3, whose graph just looks more pleasant than any of them. I wish they were more affordable, because I may have purchased them before getting my GS Audio GD7B, and I'm hard pressed to want a side-grade.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

The H2 and H3 have decent graphs, but the A2 and A3, the A3 in particular, are just better. But then there's the N3, whose graph just looks more pleasant than any of them. I wish they were more affordable, because I may have purchased them before getting my GS Audio GD7B, and I'm hard pressed to want a side-grade.

the H3 was a bass cannon. The A3 was not a bass cannon (but still had amble bass without the veil) but the detail retrieval and resolution were just average. Quite underwhelming, and coming from the H3, I was so excited to get them for my birthday. I now have the XBA300, and with balanced output, they are very good, and they are quite good through 3.5mm, BUT I warn treble sensitives to avoid, as they do possess very BA type highs in extension and timbre.

 

[mndless]

Hype train wreck! At least not many passengers on this one yet.

Not to mention they do have quite the variety, their graphs are at least close to accurate, and you can gauge how much risk you're accepting with how the BAs will sound by whether or not they name the brand and series of drivers they're using. If they don't name them, they're probably Bellsing, and you run a greater risk of encountering that annoying BA timbre. Bellsing drivers can sound fantastic, but it's much less of a guarantee compared to Sonion or Knowles.

 

[mndless]

the H3 was a bass cannon. The A3 was not a bass cannon (but still had amble bass without the veil) but the detail retrieval and resolution were just average. Quite underwhelming, and coming from the H3, I was so excited to get them for my birthday. I now have the XBA300, and with balanced output, they are very good, and they are quite good through 3.5mm, BUT I warn treble sensitives to avoid, as they do possess very BA type highs in extension and timbre.

The A3 seems to have a teeny bit more bass and they've leveled out some of the lower treble dips with some elevation to the treble extension.

I, of course, love the significant bass gains that the N3 made over the H3, and the treble is much less peaky, which is also fantastic. The treble extension seems quite significant as well.

 

[G777]

Wait wait wait..so which is it? Are the Lofty's treble impaired or are they treble monsters. They can't be both ways. I owned the NM2+, and those were godsmacked with treble, to the point where those offended even my very treble toleration. So either the graphs are full of s--t on the Lofty's, or the reviews are full of s--t. Again, it can't go both ways, folks.

The graphs show that they have a lot of lower treble (3kHz~5kHz) but a big scoop after that in the mid-treble. The peak at 4.2 kHz is probably triggering many people’s treble sensitivity while the drop-off afterwards likely leads to a lack of sparkle and possibly air.