[castleofargh]

So if such a tiny device can have that many quality EQ presets why can't other dac's ? Even with no EQ set, my pm3 hp sounds way better than with iphone, I can hear that planar omphh in bass on lower volumes, where through a phone it can go shouty/edgy, but dead. Might be as pm3 are underpowered directly with iphone, but stating that such as DAC's advertised devices are only marketing trick and all I'm hearing is placebo is a bit ignorant. If iphone would be able to play with my equipment I would be happy, but it doesn't cut it for me even if people try to state differently. I doubt that those expensive, full sized dac's are bought by majority only for dac purpose..I won't be surprised if they offer connectivity/eq/amplification/clean circuit or whatever other reason

The irony is that some popular DAC chips offer internal EQ options. I'm guessing that most DAC manufacturers just don't want to bother with a user interface, or maybe they consider it's not a DAC's job?
DAPs tend to make more use of those internal goodies(EQ, filter choices, volume control...).

 

[castleofargh]

Something funny: I installed Equalizer APO about two weeks ago, because I wasn't all that satisfied with how my headphones sounded. So played around with the frequencies, adjusting it more and more to my preferred sound. I felt I was coming closer to it. Maybe an hour or so passed, while I tested everything with my favorite music. Only thing bugging me was it was still a tad too harsh somewhere in the treble. So to find out which region I'm most sensitive to, I dragged the high frequencies all the way up... Wait a minute, why do I hear no huge difference? It should blow my ears away, or not? Turned out I didn't install the software correctly -- my brain fooled me this whole time. I was hearing the same damn sound this complete last hour.

I knew the Placebo effect could be strong, but this really left me quite shocked.

I can't count how many times I've "successfully" fine tuned my EQ while bypass was active .

 

[KeithPhantom]

I don’t know man, I have HD650 and their veil is insufferable, they sound even muffled to my ears.

I wouldn't call this veiled, except for the bass, this is one of the best FR measurements I've ever seen. This neither veiled nor muffled objectively, but you may prefer more treble, which deviates from objectively neutral.

We both agree that the performance per dollar of every high end is between bad and horrible. I paid 1250€ for my HD800s three years ago and I can’t say they weren’t worth it, but that’s 450€ less than the official price. The problem is the last three years, where every brand but Sennheiser went berserk with less and less justifiable offers.

I agree, this FR is scary bright. Peaks of 6 and 11 kHz almost 10 dB up from the reference level (90 dB) and the average level of the treble is way too high. For me, they are worth not more than half their original MRSP. Part of the price came from the R&D these headphones received (about 6 years) and all the aspects that were analyzed before even designing the first prototype. It is wild that this is the result of all of that.

EDIT: thanks to Solderdude from DIY-Audio-Heaven for posting these measurements.

 

[bigshot]

Maybe they should make a placebo equalizer for fine tuning bias! It could be like a child’s busy box with a dial for soundstage width, a veil lifter switch, and a microtransients lever.

 

[pfzar]

Reminds me of so many times in the music industry working with singers. I need more reverb or more EQ. Touch the wrong knob. Turn the back and forth. Is that good? Perfect. On we go.

Maybe they should make a placebo equalizer for fine tuning bias! It could be like a child’s busy box with a dial for soundstage width, a veil lifter switch, and a microtransients lever.

 

[hakunamakaka]

I honestly would much rather have a small portable parametric equalizer with an amp than a DAC with an amp. I wish there was something like that, but the average audiophile hasn't made any effort to learn how to EQ. It isn't hard, but it takes an organized process. Presets are pointless. Every set of headphones is different and requires a specific setting. But it's possible to make mid-range cans sound just as good as high end ones with careful equalization.



You need more music!



A +3dB boost in the low end of the treble range would probably fix that right up.

Some of these EQ presets are really good and does the job for me, but EQ'ing manually has it's limitations as well, my colleague was trying to set his HD650 close to my PM-3 sound and while he got closer with one music track, once I put something more bass heavier hd650 started to burp. As well he struggled to bring whole sound of HD650 to sound as clean and detailed as pm3. With some models I do not get that whole rave. Audio shops in my country does not have wide selection of hp, but every shop that I visit and ask for set of hp they offer me one of the senheiser6xx series. My a bit pricey pm-3 beats these series in every aspect of the sound and it's a more portable closed back. I was expecting larger soundstage due to openback design, but nothing like that...Is it because of the sentiments of these hd series or it's just me that misses something ?

 

[Slaphead]

Maybe they should make a placebo equalizer for fine tuning bias! It could be like a child’s busy box with a dial for soundstage width, a veil lifter switch, and a microtransients lever.

Stick it in milled aluminium and you could flog it for 30K

 

[KeithPhantom]

Stick it in milled aluminium and you could flog it for 30K

You just need to sell with a huge markup, you don't need volume to cover your operating costs. It is a great business idea.

 

[Bozzunter]

Maybe they should make a placebo equalizer for fine tuning bias! It could be like a child’s busy box with a dial for soundstage width, a veil lifter switch, and a microtransients lever.

As a matter of fact, it’s a widely implemented idea. My iBasso DX220 has 8 filters and they change absolutely nothing, to the point that even in the reviews (where if you turn up or down the DAP, if has an effect on the ‘signature’) they mentioned the lack of any effect whatsoever.

Let’s talk about Chord Hugo 2, whose filters through colored buttons should be audible only in high res music based on what Rob Watts says. And the list could go on forever.

Or perhaps you’re complaining that nothing like that exists with equalizers?

 

[KeithPhantom]

My iBasso DX220 has 8 filters and they change absolutely nothing

Usually, filters have more effect in the transition band (from where it starts to cut up to Fs/2). Sometimes, intermodulation distortion that can be created by the aliased frequencies (assuming slow-cut-off filters with gentler slopes than the regular linear-phase filter) does not produce enough amplitude to be heard.

 

[bigshot]

EQ'ing manually has it's limitations as well, my colleague was trying to set his HD650 close to my PM-3 sound and while he got closer with one music track, once I put something more bass heavier hd650 started to burp.

Inexperienced people tend to EQ on the extremes on bass and treble. They don't realize that the sound they are wanting to change is an octave or two lower than the band they're adjusting. They end up doing a great big boost in a range their cans can't produce or their ears can't hear and it causes distortion. There as some headphones that can't do bass at all, but I'm quite sure the HD650 is able to be EQed to match your PM-3s pretty closely.

 

[KeithPhantom]

but I'm quite sure the HD650 i

The HD 650 are only missing output from 20 to 40 Hz, they actually are at the reference level at 50 Hz, my main problem with them is the rather high distortion compared with my LCD-2 (but those are uncomfortable to wear for more than 30 minutes).

 

[bigshot]

Many headphones perform poorly at the bottom octave. If you want that, you need a subwoofer. What range do you hear distortion in? I have HD-590s and they don't distort.

 

[KeithPhantom]

Many headphones perform poorly at the bottom octave. If you want that, you need a subwoofer. What range do you hear distortion in? I have HD-590s and they don't distort.

The distortion of these is mainly high in the bass frequencies (20-50 Hz)

Everything over 1% is not optimal for small transducers such as headphones. Even though it isn't clearly audible for some, it can color the sound for me (-40 dB is pretty high for my liking).

About the sub, I'll get one right when I can get my first speaker system set up.

 

[bigshot]

Then I would guess that the fella who was EQing probably pushed the sub bass up into clipping. If he had just avoided boosting that last octave, it probably would have sounded pretty close.