[lamode]

   
-If it is occurring naturally in the venue, the product will be captured by the microphones and reproduced faithfully by whatever recording medium has a larger bandwidth than 3kHz; no need to record the ultrasonic content and hope the full recording->playback chain passes them through and reproduces them at the far end.
 
The 3 kHz tone would be the result of superposition, by the way - not IMD. (Again, splitting hairs is a favourite pastime of mine.)

Exactly

 

[analogsurviver]

   
-If it is occurring naturally in the venue, the product will be captured by the microphones and reproduced faithfully by whatever recording medium has a larger bandwidth than 3kHz; no need to record the ultrasonic content and hope the full recording->playback chain passes them through and reproduces them at the far end.
 
The 3 kHz tone would be the result of superposition, by the way - not IMD. (Again, splitting hairs is a favourite pastime of mine.)

Plausible.
 
Still requires microphone/preamp that goes all the way to 100 kHz to be able to do that on playback - even if we assume that above 20 kHz sound has no effect on the human perception - it is not necessary only hearing involved .
 
Splitting hairs is good ( in about the same way as this speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Da1tDKFfno 
- for the normal people to be able to get their eggs hair-free.

 

[stv014]

Originally Posted by Dobrescu George /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
By having more samples, the interpolation algorithm within the DAC is relaxed, creating a better result. 
 
To complete the statement, the stair waves are how the data looks before being sent through the DAC, but some DACs will create a fine wave out of it, others will not. 

 
Those who somehow have a DAC that does not could easily find something better at a low cost, such as Realtek HD audio codecs:


These graphs of 44.1 kHz digital DAC filters have been generated from the recorded samples of this blind test posted some time ago. So, the audibility of the difference can be readily ABX tested as well. For comparison, I have also added linear interpolation, which was simulated as a 32 samples long triangle impulse at 705600 Hz sample rate. The stopband rejection of especially the PCM1792 is better than shown, since there is some low level noise in the recordings.
 
As it can be seen, even the Realtek DACs can cleanly (<0.1% imaging) reconstruct sine waves up to 18 kHz, and for the (still less than $100-200) sound cards the same level of imaging only appears at about 20.5 kHz. Not to mention it is ultrasonic, and should not be audible anyway, other than as a result of very high IMD or other problems. All the tested filters are reasonably flat up to 20 kHz, and have sufficient attenuation above 26 kHz. With a competent DAC, software upsampling (which can by the way be done at a high quality with existing free software like the foobar SoX resampler plugin) should not normally be needed or have audible advantages.

 

[Tropic]

But when is better actually better? Is a $0,02 DAC chip enough, or is the $1 chip the top of the audiophile DACs?

Remember audiophile DACs are often made in 1000s because of the lower demand, so of course their $1 could at once be $100, just because they make less of them.

 

I agree on this, they stick the label 'audiophile' on something and increase the price tremendously. I honestly don't mind the difference between FLAC and streaming audio, I mean, I prefer FLAC but would be happy streaming audio straight from my MacBook 2015 if I have to.

 

[cel4145]

How can a cable sound civilized?

He means the marketing prose makes it sound civilized.

 

[analogsurviver]

He means the marketing prose makes it sound civilized.

Now - as if you have never heard a totally brand new never used cable that was rough in the beginning ...
 
These oil filled cables went to great lengths by design to prevent this as much as possible - and they do not require electrical DC bias to achieve this "pre-polarization" of the dialectric and thus do not require the burn in. The insulation on the silver plated wire is porous - meaning it is there only to physically prevent short circuiting, while allowing oil dialectric good properties to be in direct contact with the conductor. 
 
It actually is a clever design - if you can see past the "snake oil", which I understand stands for fraud in the States.
 
And, yes, it does sound "civilized" from open box. You can google "cable burn in" - and see what mumbo jumbo gets here cleverly completely avoided - by design. As noted, it is NOT expensive.

 

[StanD]

:
When i was designing my works, i also considered this to be true. There are high resolution files that have ultrasonic noise on them, and i considered that using a low pass filter could result in a better sound, than letting the ultrasonics go to the DAC.
 
Maybe i am wrong. 
 
I would want a further discussion on the matter, does ultrasonic affect what can be heared?
 
I think that even if they contained high order harmonics, the microphone would had recorded these harmonics, so i do not have to reproduce ultrasonics, to get the best sq possible.

Since we cannot hear above a certain frequency, which declines with age or hearing damage, there is no value in reproducing anything above a certain frequency, 20 kHz is considered the high end for most young human beings. There is a downside to allowing these higher frequencies/ultrasonics to come down the chain. They consume power and Dynamic Range that would otherwise be used for sound that we can perceive.

 

[Toom]

  Now - as if you have never heard a totally brand new never used cable that was rough in the beginning ...
 
These oil filled cables went to great lengths by design to prevent this as much as possible - and they do not require electrical DC bias to achieve this "pre-polarization" of the dialectric and thus do not require the burn in. The insulation on the silver plated wire is porous - meaning it is there only to physically prevent short circuiting, while allowing oil dialectric good properties to be in direct contact with the conductor. 
 
It actually is a clever design - if you can see past the "snake oil", which I understand stands for fraud in the States.
 
And, yes, it does sound "civilized" from open box. You can google "cable burn in" - and see what mumbo jumbo gets here cleverly completely avoided - by design. As noted, it is NOT expensive.

 
 
I think some of that oil must have got into your brain. Nobody in the real world believes any of this stuff.

 

[analogsurviver]

 

But when is better actually better? Is a $0,02 DAC chip enough, or is the $1 chip the top of the audiophile DACs?

Remember audiophile DACs are often made in 1000s because of the lower demand, so of course their $1 could at once be $100, just because they make less of them.

 

I agree on this, they stick the label 'audiophile' on something and increase the price tremendously. I honestly don't mind the difference between FLAC and streaming audio, I mean, I prefer FLAC but would be happy streaming audio straight from my MacBook 2015 if I have to.

The price of the digital processor chip - whatever it is - is invisible compared to the supporting electronics and particularly when compared to the quality analog section(s). 
 
Then again, seeing a mass produced piece of electronics being equipped with  a front plate of the thickness fit for a tank, replacing a few electrical components and selling it as own product at five times or more price than the original stock unit IS snake oil.

 

[analogsurviver]

   
 
I think some of that oil must have got into your brain. Nobody in the real world believes any of this stuff.

I am not cable crazy guy - far from it. I do not approve or like LOTS of audiophile cables with prices that defy any reason - like 5 figure for speaker cables, for example.
 
These little oil cables are good. How about listening to them - you may be surprised. Then again, no affiliation with either maker or seller(s).

 

[dazzerfong]

 
Then again, seeing a mass produced piece of electronics being equipped with  a front plate of the thickness fit for a tank, replacing a few electrical components and selling it as own product at five times or more price than the original stock unit IS snake oil.

No, snake oil is when it also claims to fix all of your life's problems. What you described is called 'capitalism', and more cynically, a rip-off.

 

[analogsurviver]

  No, snake oil is when it also claims to fix all of your life's problems. What you described is called 'capitalism', and more cynically, a rip-off.

Fair enough.

 

[Toom]

  I am not cable crazy guy - far from it. I do not approve or like LOTS of audiophile cables with prices that defy any reason - like 5 figure for speaker cables, for example.
 
These little oil cables are good. How about listening to them - you may be surprised. Then again, no affiliation with either maker or seller(s).

 
Why would I want to buy a cable to 'listen' to it (such an insane notion) when the ones I have are fit for purpose, i.e. link things together and transmit the information as they should?
 
If I am ever discovered explaining to another person that I deliberately buy audio cables soaked in olive oil because it makes them 'sound civilised', you all have my permission to punch me repeatedly in the neck.

 

[lamode]

Now - as if you have never heard a totally brand new never used cable that was rough in the beginning ...

You are a deserving winner

 

[RRod]

   
-If it is occurring naturally in the venue, the product will be captured by the microphones and reproduced faithfully by whatever recording medium has a larger bandwidth than 3kHz; no need to record the ultrasonic content and hope the full recording->playback chain passes them through and reproduces them at the far end.
 
The 3 kHz tone would be the result of superposition, by the way - not IMD. (Again, splitting hairs is a favourite pastime of mine.)

 
Superposition would just mean that the result is the sum of the two sine waves, no? Wouldn't you still need some non-linear mechanism to generate an audible 3kHz tone in this situation? If I play the sum of these two tones through my computer and headphones, I don't hear anything. If I sum up 18 and 19kHz waves (also beyond my hearing ability), I don't hear anything either, not 18kHz, not 19kHz, not 18.5kHz, not 1kHz. If I cranked the volume I'm sure I'd start to hear stuff, but I like my hearing ^_^