[Strangelove424]

I agree that any mp3 player should be enough for most people even if you're using expensive IEMs, but disagree with the smartphone comment.
Every android smartphone I've tried had problems with hiss and doesn't sound right with the se846. Impedance issue or other internal parts maybe? The iphone sounds good and comparable to expensive DAPs, but I don't like iphones.

My CIEMs isolate really well, and I've almost been ran over by a car several times, luckily I have eyes

 I have an HTC One I'm very happy with. It measures extremely well in tests, and it puts out enough power (5.1mW into 330 ohm) to put even my 600ohm phones into decent volume levels. That impressed me big time. I can't judge the whole of the Android kingdom, but something tells me the HTC headphone amp was made for larger, higher impedance phones, not low impedance IEMs. I would call that a design decision (one I'm personally in favor of) instead of a problem. 

 

[money4me247]

  that's why I started with saying that in my first post, I really think it is the center of the "problem", not really overall sound quality:
 
the hissing problem I'm talking about (different from noises from cellphones waves, or the noise from a bad recording) is in fact a very simple and logic problem. one source will have some value of circuit and component noises. there always is and while always small it can be at very different levels depending on the DAP, you'll have to trust me on that one, a studio V is a hissing factory while a X3 didn't hiss even on my most sensitive stuff. it's not the IEM that hisses, it's the source, and the IEM is sensitive enough to bring it up or not. it's not a defect on the IEM's part.
on something extreme like 8ohm with 124db for 1mw sensitivity(se846), the same low level voltage noise can sound tens of DB louder compared to the DAP plugged into some low sensitivity headphones, and while you adjust the loudness of the music, you don't adjust that noise.

 
lol if you are happy paying $1000+ for IEMs that hiss, i guess to each their own.

  The iPod has a signal to noise ratio that goes right to the edge of redbook specs. Same with the iPhone. Nothing there to bring up.

yea, I read that iPods/iPhone have pretty low output impedance and S/N ratios. you should try that with your hissing equipment.

 

[Strangelove424]

   
lol if you are happy paying $1000+ for IEMs that hiss, i guess to each their own.
yea, I read that iPods/iPhone have pretty low output impedance and S/N ratios. you should try that with your hissing equipment.

 
I think you're confusing an attribute of IEM's physics (low impedance) with an inherent flaw with their design, or some kind of failure to deliver. I'm not personally interested in what anyone else pays for anything. That's a personal decision. No matter what you think of them, IEMs can serve a purpose. They are often used on stage as hidden monitors. The low impedance issue can be dealt with in a focused setup, a setup that I guarantee you is used in professional stage applications every day. Whether someone wants to accept the drawbacks of that design for their inherent benefits is their business. 

 

[bobby12]

 I have an HTC One I'm very happy with. It measures extremely well in tests, and it puts out enough power (5.1mW into 330 ohm) to put even my 600ohm phones into decent volume levels. That impressed me big time. I can't judge the whole of the Android kingdom, but something tells me the HTC headphone amp was made for larger, higher impedance phones, not low impedance IEMs. I would call that a design decision (one I'm personally in favor of) instead of a problem. 

Every flagship android i've tested seems to hiss with the se846. Only flagship phone that doesn't hiss is the iphone. Louder = better to most people so I totally understand
It's fine though since I don't like having a jack attached to my phone especially when I'm using it.

 

[appsmarsterx]

if your can hear noice with your android device, why not just use the usb otg functionality with your portable amp/dac? (if your device supports it)

 

[money4me247]

 
I think you're confusing an attribute of IEM's physics (low impedance) with an inherent flaw with their design, or some kind of failure to deliver. I'm not personally interested in what anyone else pays for anything. That's a personal decision. No matter what you think of them, IEMs can serve a purpose. They are often used on stage as hidden monitors. The low impedance issue can be dealt with in a focused setup, a setup that I guarantee you is used in professional stage applications every day. Whether someone wants to accept the drawbacks of that design for their inherent benefits is their business. 

lol. I think having $1000+ hissing IEMs is a failure on the part of the consumer. You either get a set-up that can handle low impedance IEM or don't waste your money on that.
 
It's like buying $1000+ high impedance full-sized over-ears and complaining that they don't get loud enough. If you are going to invest in that kind of expensive gear, you need make sure that your equipment matches.
 
I do think that extremely low impedance IEMs targeted for normal consumers that cannot be supported by standard smartphones/mp3 players have an inherent flaw in their design. Normal consumers are going to plug these into any random 3.5 headphone jack and expect it to work out of the box. If targeted for specific professional stage applications, then sure. whatever. I just don't see the pros of having an impedance so low that the headphones reveal noise out of standard jacks. It's not like impedance has any correlation with sound quality, so yes, I think that is a product design flaw.

 

[Strangelove424]

Every flagship android i've tested seems to hiss with the se846. Only flagship phone that doesn't hiss is the iphone. Louder = better to most people so I totally understand

It's fine though since I don't like having a jack attached to my phone especially when I'm using it.

I hear a dead silent background. Measurements support that. And yes, louder is important if you have headphones that won't be driven to acceptable levels on an iPhone. I used to have an iPhone, and am much happier with the HTC. ymmv
 
 

 
I think having $1000+ hissing IEMs is a failure on the part of the consumer.
...
 
It's not like impedance has any correlation with sound quality, so yes, I think that is a product design flaw.

 
Quite a contradiction in the same paragraph. Decide whether you are criticizing someone's personal choice in transducer or criticizing the transducer itself. If it's the latter, you're failing to understand the design goals of in-ear-monitors. If it's the former, then you're just bashing someone's personal preferences. 
 
Castleofargh already pointed out the matching problem with his IEMs. He's not blaming equipment. Did you read his post at all? He stated mixed feelings for his low impedance IEMs, buts also stated his personal preference for their sound sig - despite the compromises. So if the guy you're bullying agrees with most of your points scientifically, and you're not making helpful suggestions for solutions, then you're just being condescending.

 

[money4me247]

  I hear a dead silent background. Measurements support that. And yes, louder is important if you have headphones that won't be driven to acceptable levels on an iPhone. I used to have an iPhone, and am much happier with the HTC. ymmv
 
Quite a contradiction in the same paragraph. Decide whether you are criticizing someone's personal choice in transducer or criticizing the transducer itself. If it's the latter, you're failing to understand the design goals of in-ear-monitors. If it's the former, then you're just bashing someone's personal preferences. 
 
Castleofargh already pointed out the matching problem with his IEMs. He's not blaming equipment. Did you read his post at all? He stated mixed feelings for his low impedance IEMs, buts also stated his personal preference for their sound sig - despite the compromises. So if the guy you're bullying agrees with most of your points scientifically, and you're not making helpful suggestions for solutions, then you're just being condescending.

love how everyone on head-fi automatically assumes the worse of other people.
 
lol I did offer suggestions on how to resolve the hissing. and I stand by the opinion that if you spent $1000+ on IEMs & still have to deal with hissing, you either made the wrong purchasing decision in the first place or need to figure out how the resolve the issue because for $1000+ any compromises in audio performance is unacceptable.
 
it's not a contradictory opinion to say that I think in general that designing transducers with too low an impedance for the general consumer market is a design flaw on the part of the manufacturer and purchasing very expensive low impedance IEMs when your other components do not support it is a mistake on the part of the consumer. I am not bullying anyone at all. Just stating the obvious. At the end of the day, sound signature or sound performance has absolutely nothing to due with the impedance of a pair of headphones, so it's not like you are gaining any sonic benefits from purchasing something so expensive that does not match with the rest of your equipment. 
 
the only person here being condescending/attacking/bullying others is you.

 

[Strangelove424]

  love how everyone on head-fi automatically assumes the worse of other people.
 
lol I did offer suggestions on how to resolve the hissing. and I stand by the opinion that if you spent $1000+ on IEMs & still have to deal with hissing, you either made the wrong purchasing decision in the first place or need to figure out how the resolve the issue because for $1000+ any compromises in audio performance is unacceptable.
 
it's not a contradictory opinion to say that I think in general that designing transducers with too low an impedance for the general consumer market is a design flaw on the part of the manufacturer and purchasing very expensive low impedance IEMs when your other components do not support it is a mistake on the part of the consumer. I am not bullying anyone at all. Just stating the obvious. At the end of the day, sound signature or sound performance has absolutely nothing to due with the impedance of a pair of headphones, so it's not like you are gaining any sonic benefits from purchasing something so expensive that does not match with the rest of your equipment.
 
the only person here being condescending or attacking others is you.

 
There is no assumption going on here about your comments, your were rude and condescending. The constant "lol"s in response to sensible statements is a dismissive, condescending laughter, in addition to the tone you've taken in your comments. 
 
It's a characteristic of IEMs to have low resistance, not just to be driven by small and hidden sources, but because of the nature of the transducer itself. We all make choices in equipment, and do our best to pair earphones to sources, and that is what castle is trying to do.  Criticizing someone's decision to buy a pair based on personal requirements and sound sig preference really doesn't add to the discussion whatsoever. You could criticize the majority of head-fi for purchasing power hungry headphones and then needing an amp.  

 

[Head Injury]

   
You could criticize the majority of head-fi for purchasing power hungry headphones and then needing an amp.  

I just criticize them for the amps they buy

 

[money4me247]

 
There is no assumption going on here about your comments, your were rude and condescending. The constant "lol"s in response to sensible statements is a dismissive, condescending laughter, in addition to the tone you've taken in your comments. 
 
It's a characteristic of IEMs to have low resistance, not just to be driven by small and hidden sources, but because of the nature of the transducer itself. We all make choices in equipment, and do our best to pair earphones to sources, and that is what castle is trying to do.  Criticizing someone's decision to buy a pair based on personal requirements and sound sig preference really doesn't add to the discussion whatsoever. You could criticize the majority of head-fi for purchasing power hungry headphones and then needing an amp.  

lol. no, you are assuming & making incorrect assumptions. the lol was because i find it surprising that someone can be satisfied with sub-par audio performance for something that is in the 1k+ range. I don't see how spending 1k+ on multiple pair of IEMs and gathering an exorbitant amount of different DAPs that do not work together = a sensible statement.
 
Purchasing something that does not work properly with your equipment has absolutely nothing to do with personal preference! You wouldn't call getting a key that does not fit into a lock personal preference? Picking the color of your clothes is a personal preference. Picking the wrong sized clothes is not personal preference! lol!!!
 
and sure, we can just sit here and act like spending $1000+ on IEMs that have hissing is acceptable. it blatantly is not. there is obviously a simple fix that will allow him to enjoy his expensive low impedance IEMs without hissing. I think that instead of going the route of experimenting by purchasing lots of different random DAPs/phones or whatever else, the key is to match the output impedance of the source. I think this can be accomplished with any mp3 player with a low output impedance (such as the iPod Touch) or perhaps an amplifier with a high S/N ratio & low output impedance.
 
I think sub-par audio performance from ultra-expensive equipment is unacceptable & should be criticized until resolved. I am not attacking or insulting anyone like you are. I am disagreeing with a mentality and approach to a problem that I believe has a simple solution.
 
The point of low impedance is to allow the headphones to sound good and be easily driven by portable sources . However, if the impedance is so low that you hear the noise from the output impedance... that is obviously counterproductive to the design goal of having the IEMs work with portable sources. 

 

[Strangelove424]

I won't do this anymore. Simply won't. Said my perspective and won't waste another minute. 
 
Castleofargh, if you're still reading this thread, and I can't say I'd blame you for having abandoned it, check out iPod nanos. I can't tell you the power output, but I know output impedance is 1/3 that of an iPhone. Older models I think tended to have less power output, maybe check Ebay for something cheap and handy. There is also a voltage/volume limiter to protect hearing, which may benefit the IEMs. Good luck. 

 

[money4me247]

  I won't do this anymore. Simply won't. Said my perspective and won't waste another minute. 
 
Castleofargh, if you're still reading this thread, and I can't say I'd blame you for having abandoned it, check out iPod nanos. I can't tell you the power output, but I know output impedance is 1/3 that of an iPhone. Older models I think tended to have less power output, maybe check Ebay for something cheap and handy. There is also a voltage/volume limiter to protect hearing, which may benefit the IEMs. Good luck. 

lol. you do realize that tone is inferred on the reader's end & that I stated the exact same solution like a page back before you perceived my my posts to be offensive. if you give people the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming the worse and resorting to personal insults, I think this place would be a lot nicer.
 
if I was being condescending or bullying, why would I be offering suggestions on how to fix the issue? lol!

 

[castleofargh]

those IEMs where what offered me the best sound and isolation I could find(or knew to find). I needed small stuff so even though I believed and still do, that IEMs are the crap of audio, I went for it and compromised along the way.
super sensitive IEMs are just one of the many things that I had to decide upon, bad luck or some technical reason? I don't know. but amongst the IEMs I've auditioned, my favorite ones tended to be one of those stupidly sensitive ones. so I had to chose between common sense and the sound I liked(maybe I've just been an idiot liking the loudest one? ^_^)
once I submitted to the sensitive IEM, all I could do was also submit to the compromises of the source. it's messed up, but the end sound can be really not so bad.
all in all we just have to know how sensitive our IEMs are and avoid the noisier DAPs. just like we need to avoid high impedance ones for some IEMs, or have to look for more power to drive a few portable headphones. it's a problem and a different one each time, but there is always a way around it. my complains come from the fact that often times, the way around it also brings a few other restrictions and forces to do new compromises, like carrying a external amp, or not getting the DAP we like to use because it hisses or has too much impedance or not enough power... 
it can all be dealt with as long as we are well informed (something we are not, people on headfi tend to forget the bad sides of the gears they bought and are so proud of). but those things do matter a great deal and that's why I always laugh when I read someone asking if this DAP is better than this other DAP. because the answer will always be half wrong depending on the headphone.
 
edit: I wasn't offended or anything, plz say what you want to say(aslong as no modo comes around to say it's not ok).
I get hot headed on lies(on purpose or by ignorance), but never by opinions.

 

[jodgey4]

Just as a side note, I think it's really strange that any IEM would be designed to be so low impedance and so sensitive. Most gear won't have power problems with IEM's, there's channel imbalance with pots at lower levels where you'd be more likely to be in, noise becomes an issue, you could accidentally blow them out much easier if you bump the volume knob, you're more limited in gear to stuff that has a really low output impedance as described (especially true with IEM's due to crossovers and varying impedances across the frequency spectrum when trying to get a proper damping factor and frequency response), and many amps become quite unstable/distorted/current-limited with loads even under 20 ohms.
 
Designing anything below 32 ohms is just a bad idea to me. Higher impedance headphones means you can use many more sources to greater success, as it is usually flaws in sources that cause most of the issues I've explained. If you're having that many noise issues, you could maybe try an impedance adapter - http://www.head-fi.org/t/601669/impedance-adapters-cables-explained-listed/45 - or something like Heir Audio's Tzar series IEM's with impedances of 90 or 350 ohms.