Sep 28, 2017 at 2:39 AM Post #1,186 of 16,946
I am going to use the A16 with headphones

Good, because that's precisely the point of the A16 :) it's meant to be used with headphones. Processing the multichannel signal with your HRTF and sending it to two real speakers would be pointless.
The A16 doesn't need to virtually amplify 16 speakers. As explained above, the PRIR measurement allows the A16 to determine how your ears receive sounds to create a filter. Then when you feed it with a raw multichannel signal, it applys this filter to get a 2-channel signal that is amplified and sent to your headphones so that your ears get the same sound that they would get if you were listening to it in the room that was captured.
 
Sep 28, 2017 at 8:35 AM Post #1,187 of 16,946
I want to try too.
(ILD and ITD cues, Loudness and Time).
and of course what I explained here is only about position cues, in reality the signature of each speaker, the reverb from the room and even more are also captured and replicated to some level by the A16. which should make for a pretty good result as long as the headphone used isn't total low- fidelity garbage.

Thank you.
Do you think spectral cues and the ratio between direct and reflected sound are also positional cues?
If yes, which hints they provide to our brains and what positional conclusion our brains derive from them?
In other words, how do we perceive elevation and distance of one given speaker?
 
Sep 28, 2017 at 9:04 AM Post #1,188 of 16,946
Because of the asymmetrical shape of our ears (earflap etc.) the filter-effect of bending in to the ear is different for different directions. If humans had simple symmetrical funnel shaped ears we probably could not hear in 3D. With timing and volume differences alone we would for example not know the difference between 30 degrees left front, 30 degrees left rear, 30 degrees left up, etc.

If you google you can find a lot of information, for example i just found this (didn't read it yet, but looks interresting):
https://papers.nips.cc/paper/1731-spectral-cues-in-human-sound-localization.pdf
 
Sep 28, 2017 at 10:26 AM Post #1,189 of 16,946
Thank you.
Do you think spectral cues and the ratio between direct and reflected sound are also positional cues?
If yes, which hints they provide to our brains and what positional conclusion our brains derive from them?
In other words, how do we perceive elevation and distance of one given speaker?
I believe the brain will make use of anything following patterns. we're the fabulous pattern machines. but for obvious reasons, we'll give priorities to some information. as long as the eyes are open, the rest takes a step back, always. when we close our eyes, hearing will give priority to survival stuff. general direction of the sound source works well enough with ILD, ITD not to require more to make a judgement call about the position, so I'm guessing if something else agrees it might be integrated, but if it conflicts with ILT ITD, I would expect the brain to trust ILD+ ITD.
for room reflections, we can most certainly identify and work with them. but I suspect there are different "modes" for the brain, although that's only an educated guess as I really don't know enough. but here is my reasoning:
we know that we can get a relative idea about the size of a room from reverb and stuff, now very precise, but if we know it's box shaped and not treated, we can guess something. and in the dark, we can sometimes guess if a wall is close or not depending on other sounds or even how our own voice comes back to us(but better move slow ^_^). we're not good at this but some information seems to be available anyway. so to some level it seems obvious we can make some use of other cues. why I think we have different "modes", is because of how under normal circumstances the brain clearly tries to remove the room. after a few minutes, we're getting used to reverb or specific room signature. I'm guessing it's one of those constant recalibration we apply all year long. the change from the room is something new, but as soon as it's stable and doesn't seem to wish to kill us(or something ^_^), the brain starts attenuating it so that it can focus on ... IDK, I imagine survival stuff and better identifying the cues that matter more? just like we get used to tainted googles pretty fast. maybe the brain believes it's too much of a distraction? in any case, to be able to push all that information like reverb and signature to the side, the brain must be able to identify it pretty well. so who knows what we can really do with all we perceive? I don't ^_^.
 
Oct 1, 2017 at 4:10 AM Post #1,191 of 16,946
The waiting drives me nuts.

Yep, it's becoming agony. I've been getting on for a year now with no surround sound and neither the Ossic nor the Smyth people seem to be in any hurry to improve my life.
 
Oct 1, 2017 at 4:29 AM Post #1,192 of 16,946
I'm using Out Of Your Head in the meantime. It's not the A16, especially since I'm using a BRIR with it, not a PRIR, but spacialization is decent.
Let's say that I can locate the sound around 80 cm from my hears. Only the front speaker is a bit vague to determine the localization but yet the experience is quite ok for me.
At least I can still get surround sound while waiting for the A16
 
Oct 1, 2017 at 10:45 PM Post #1,195 of 16,946
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Oct 2, 2017 at 3:53 AM Post #1,196 of 16,946
I'm using Out Of Your Head in the meantime. It's not the A16, especially since I'm using a BRIR with it, not a PRIR, but spacialization is decent.
Let's say that I can locate the sound around 80 cm from my hears. Only the front speaker is a bit vague to determine the localization but yet the experience is quite ok for me.
At least I can still get surround sound while waiting for the A16

Thanks for reminding me again about this software. Finally I bought „Out of Your Head“ too yesterday. Took a while to find a preset which suited my ears. The Revel did the trick at the end.The process of installing and licencing was a bad experience though. First some „output error“ bugs continued with no sound. Later it worked but when I bought it it did not read the licence file. The great thing was that Darin Fong reacted all the time within minutes. So a big thank you to the guy for that.
 
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Oct 2, 2017 at 4:42 AM Post #1,197 of 16,946
For me, the one i like best is the Magico Q3 preset. The software is a bit weird sometimes, when i turn it on, it makes some cracklings when playing sounds, and then i have to turn it off and on 2-3 times before cracklings disappear. It's a bit annoying, but it's only temporary (though with the A16 production delay, temporary lasts longer than expected !). It would be interesting to convert a PRIR made with the A16 (or A8 because Out Of Your Head can reproduce "only" 8 channels) to use on the software and then compare if it sounds like with the Realiser. Darin Fong actually uses an A8 to capture rooms and then he converts the PRIRs for his software. But it costs 150$ to do it !!! so much ! (i read some people complaining that Darin took their PRIR without their permission to sell them via OOYH... not cool if it's true)
 
Oct 2, 2017 at 7:18 AM Post #1,199 of 16,946
So what amp/dac does the a16 use? I mean i'm waiting for my NFB11.28, would it be a better than the a16 dac/amp?

And this so-called Out OF Head Experience. In my macahine it is sounding terrible, all the presets are very metally-clanky sounding. Tried to set it up exactly as they say on their webpage. Maybe it is good for 5.1/7.1 source, but for stereo source files it is terrible.
 
Oct 2, 2017 at 7:40 AM Post #1,200 of 16,946
And this so-called Out OF Head Experience. In my macahine it is sounding terrible, all the presets are very metally-clanky sounding. Tried to set it up exactly as they say on their webpage. Maybe it is good for 5.1/7.1 source, but for stereo source files it is terrible.

(I assume you are now talking about Out Of Your Head software, or are you talking about something else?)
If you use generic BRIRs not personal measured PRIRs you can be lucky if you find a measurement that "fits" you, but if you are unlucky (maybe have very not-average shaped head and ears) you won't find one that "fits".
 

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