Are we really going to debate totally made up scenarios? Smyth has said that Kickstarter orders will ship first and pre-orders will ship second. Smyth has given us no reason to think they will not follow through. They have a shipping product and have been traveling to audio shows around the world with an advanced prototype for more than a year. I purchased two A-16s for less than the pre-order price for one. We Kickstarter backers got a hell of a deal. I'm not happy it is late, but projects like this are always late, so it was not a surprise to me. I would urge Smyth to publish a new date that they have full confidence in as soon as possible.
Smyth Research Realiser A16
Have you tried just contacting Smyth and asking for your money back?
Got the Shakes
500+ Head-Fier
No I haven't, because at this point I'm not planning on bailing on the A16. I've been through the trials and tribulations of Kickstarter many times before, and I know delays are to be expected. I'm only slightly frustrated at this point and I know it's a product that is going to solve a problem I've had for years (and bought a pair of HD800 for). I know there are a lot of moving pieces to finally getting units shipped, I just wish we knew that there was a firm A16 will be guaranteed to ship by date, even if it was in the winter of 2018. Hopefully we can hear something soon about a solid date.
Fox1977
500+ Head-Fier
I don't think the Smyths will released an A16 stripped of many features, nor that they will ship Kickstarter backers's units after the others. That would be a big shame for them and that doesn't reflect the serious they've shown with the A8 for many years.
I think they will produce A16 with all the promised features. The A16 is not a scam. They have a good reputation among professional world and they would lose much credit should the A16 be a stripped version or a failure and they couldn't provide to those who already paid.
The main mistake they did was a big lack of communication and delivery date pushed back already twice. Now they are considering shipping the first units in december at the earliest, which is 7 months later than the date originally announced when the Kickstarter campain was launched. And it's very likely that it will not be shipped for real before early 2018 unfortunately.
We paid the full sum already 13 months ago and beyond the legal obligation to provide the product we paid for, there should be also a moral obligation to update customers regularly and honestly about the production progress. As backers, we trusted them and funded the production of the A16 so we have the right to get honest information about how things are going. If there is delay, ok, so be it but better tell things the way they are rather than keeping people in the dark, who then start having ideas and making up reasons about the silence.
After waiting 13 months, i wouldn't be smart to cancel and ask for refund just because i'm tired of waiting. I paid half the retail price, and that means that if i was cancelling now, i would close the door on the A16 for good because i wouldn't spend 2300€ in the device later. I know that waiting is very frustrating but c'est la vie and there are worse things than that... If at least we had a firm release date, it would ease frustration but right now we have no idea when we'll really get it...
I think they will produce A16 with all the promised features. The A16 is not a scam. They have a good reputation among professional world and they would lose much credit should the A16 be a stripped version or a failure and they couldn't provide to those who already paid.
The main mistake they did was a big lack of communication and delivery date pushed back already twice. Now they are considering shipping the first units in december at the earliest, which is 7 months later than the date originally announced when the Kickstarter campain was launched. And it's very likely that it will not be shipped for real before early 2018 unfortunately.
We paid the full sum already 13 months ago and beyond the legal obligation to provide the product we paid for, there should be also a moral obligation to update customers regularly and honestly about the production progress. As backers, we trusted them and funded the production of the A16 so we have the right to get honest information about how things are going. If there is delay, ok, so be it but better tell things the way they are rather than keeping people in the dark, who then start having ideas and making up reasons about the silence.
After waiting 13 months, i wouldn't be smart to cancel and ask for refund just because i'm tired of waiting. I paid half the retail price, and that means that if i was cancelling now, i would close the door on the A16 for good because i wouldn't spend 2300€ in the device later. I know that waiting is very frustrating but c'est la vie and there are worse things than that... If at least we had a firm release date, it would ease frustration but right now we have no idea when we'll really get it...
sander99
Headphoneus Supremus
Here is my take on the situation:
2 quotes from the pre-order page (http://smyth-research.com/preorder_A16.html):
"3) Mar-Apr 2018 estimated product shipping window (pre-sale phase 4). "
"Although it is our plan that Realisers purchased under this phase-4 pre-sale offer will be manufactured in Q1 2018, the actual shipping may be delayed significantly."
I think this makes sense and should not be alarming at all. They (Smyth) said before at some point that they expected the kickstarter's and pre-sales orders up to that moment (pre-sale phase-1 and maybe phase-2 I assume) would be delivered in one go. It seems a logical possibility that additional pre-sales orders from later pre-sales offers can not be produced and delivered in that same "batch" (for example because they have to order additional housings, and other parts from third parties), hence they mention a later shipping date for those. In other words they stil might start delivering the first batch in december (although indeed I also expect that can quickly become start of 2018).
And the same as now, for the earlier pre-sales offfers they always had that same warning: "the actual shipping may be delayed significantly".
2 quotes from the pre-order page (http://smyth-research.com/preorder_A16.html):
"3) Mar-Apr 2018 estimated product shipping window (pre-sale phase 4). "
"Although it is our plan that Realisers purchased under this phase-4 pre-sale offer will be manufactured in Q1 2018, the actual shipping may be delayed significantly."
I think this makes sense and should not be alarming at all. They (Smyth) said before at some point that they expected the kickstarter's and pre-sales orders up to that moment (pre-sale phase-1 and maybe phase-2 I assume) would be delivered in one go. It seems a logical possibility that additional pre-sales orders from later pre-sales offers can not be produced and delivered in that same "batch" (for example because they have to order additional housings, and other parts from third parties), hence they mention a later shipping date for those. In other words they stil might start delivering the first batch in december (although indeed I also expect that can quickly become start of 2018).
And the same as now, for the earlier pre-sales offfers they always had that same warning: "the actual shipping may be delayed significantly".
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Sanctuary
100+ Head-Fier
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Oh really?
Personally, I'm fine with a delay. What I'm getting sick of is the constant tentative release dates that are perpetually moved back. They should just stop making such announcements until they know exactly how things really look.
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I know the wait is frustrating, but really? Smyth could have very easily released a half-baked product earlier in the year and left those users in the dark by bringing out an A16 v2 twelve months later. While some people might have preferred that, the reality is that you're going to get a product with more features than was initially advertised - not less! Initial delays were due to fabrication of parts. I suspect these delays caused Smyth to wait a little bit longer for MDS to release the new HDMI matrix to support HDMI 2.0b on all inputs. This also seems to have taken longer than they were expecting - some glitches with the new board is still causing delays as reported on October 22. During that time they have been tweaking the rest of the product even further - getting additional Atmos channels out of the audio decoder, adding amplified balanced headphone outputs by combining user A and B, and who knows what other refinements.
HDMI 2.0b (4K HDR @60hz) on all inputs out-of-the-box is going to extend the useful life of the A16 significantly - the more successful and long-lived the A16 product is, the more post-sales development we can expect.
As mentioned above, Smyth never promised a firm release date and always warned of significant delays.
Pre-order sales will be delivered along with Kickstarter units but only until those numbers stay below their first production run. First production run numbers have probably been set some time ago due to contracts/parts already produced, etc. It seems this number has now been exceeded and pre-sales going forward will be shipped from second production run. I think its good news that Smyth are continuing to get pre-orders. These pre-orders and future full-price sales are subsidising those of you lucky enough to get Kickstarter pricing.
phoenixdogfan
1000+ Head-Fier
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Now if a way can be found to remove the HRTF from one person's PRIR and replace it with this calculated HRTF, you won't even need to visit a room and take a custom measurement. Instead, you could take your own HRTF, buy a room/speaker measurement and be in business in minutes.
raband
500+ Head-Fier
Notice to those onboard/bought in of what's happening would be polite before a new delivery date is put up online.
Does that mean us?
Are ours delayed?
Last notice we got was December delivery - has that changed?
This more than anything has shaken the confidence.........
Does that mean us?
Are ours delayed?
Last notice we got was December delivery - has that changed?
This more than anything has shaken the confidence.........
For existing preorders, nothing has changed so there is nothing to report.
No, no and no.
The pre-order pages specifically refers to orders after 1st October being "phase 4" and that they will be delivered from second production batch.
http://www.smyth-research.com/preorder_A16.html
Personally, I find it assuring that they have finalised the numbers for their first production run.
raband
500+ Head-Fier
Cheers - pretty much all the info I get is from here - should have checked the page.
Fox1977
500+ Head-Fier
On the pre-order page, it's indeed very clear that this march-April 2018 shipping date applies only to this Phase 4. So for us, the planned date remains December.
Yet, if the production of our batch was delayed again, the second batch would be as well, hence the warning about the shipping date being potentially significantly delayed.
What i don't like though is the line saying that even they are confident that the final specifications will be close to the documentation page, they may change significantly by the time of shipping... as well as the retail price may be changed (hopefully not for the pre-orders).
And they also have the right to cancel the whole thing and refund us. (Unlikely to happen though)
Yet, if the production of our batch was delayed again, the second batch would be as well, hence the warning about the shipping date being potentially significantly delayed.
What i don't like though is the line saying that even they are confident that the final specifications will be close to the documentation page, they may change significantly by the time of shipping... as well as the retail price may be changed (hopefully not for the pre-orders).
And they also have the right to cancel the whole thing and refund us. (Unlikely to happen though)
You are being paranoid, much of this was in the original Kickstarter page...
Kickstarter said:
The conditions around pricing, rights to cancel are the same as they were in the first pre-sale phase after Kickstarter.
Take some chill pills!
Fox1977
500+ Head-Fier
I'm not paranoid, I wrote specifically that it's unlikely to happen. I just said that I don't like it because the door is open for it. That's all.
I never said that they have evil secret plans to run away with our money.
Production is on its way and it should proceed with all the promised features. Yet, contractually they don't seem to be obliged to deliver what we are expected. I suppose it's just a way to protect themselves of unexpected problem.
I never said that they have evil secret plans to run away with our money.
Production is on its way and it should proceed with all the promised features. Yet, contractually they don't seem to be obliged to deliver what we are expected. I suppose it's just a way to protect themselves of unexpected problem.
I don't see any reason why Smyth would strip features out of the A16. The delay at this point appears to be certifications & assembly. If they couldn't afford to build it to the original specification (maybe due to the decrease in the pound's purchasing power after the Brexit vote) they would have told us some time ago. At this point it would cost them more in money and time to change their plans, so I'm not worried about curtailed features at all. True, they could cease trading completely, but if that were likely they probably would have done that before ordering the cases.
The last few months are always painful because everyone is impatient and sick of the absence of news. To be honest, I hate Kickstarter sometimes.
The last few months are always painful because everyone is impatient and sick of the absence of news. To be honest, I hate Kickstarter sometimes.
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