[Fox1977]

Still, I truly think that impatience is due mostly to the lack of information. If people had been receiving a short update each time one step is progressing, they would be still impatient to receive their unit, it's normal but it would be positive impatience and there would not be these suspicions that appeared on this forum over the last few days.
I understand frustration but it's pointless to start freaking out and growing worries among buyers.
The Smyths are serious people and will deliver their A16. They just need to work a bit on their communication to ease down the tension. They must be themselves on edge, trying to get everything done on time. They have to prepare 300 or 400 units, that's gonna be a lot of work.
Besides delays in receiving the various details are their responsibility, they can't do much if factory in China for example faces some issues, they are like us and have to wait till problems are solved.
Let's just wait and hope for an update by the end of the month (though a few lines twice a month would be appreciated)

 

[Sanctuary]

For existing preorders, nothing has changed so there is nothing to report.



No, no and no.

The pre-order pages specifically refers to orders after 1st October being "phase 4" and that they will be delivered from second production batch.
http://www.smyth-research.com/preorder_A16.html

That's certainly one way to read it, even though it specifically saying this scheme in relation to the listed date doesn't automatically exclude everything prior. If you go back through each preorder phase, they all had an expected release date that didn't happen. When a new preorder phase appeared, the release date for all those prior got pushed back to the same release date as the new phase expected, so I'm not sure why you're so confident that nothing has changed.

All that I see is " Order now, and get your A16 in 2018 at some point when they are finally released, and pay slightly less than what they will be upon that release". This is something that keeps happening too. The price slowly keeps creeping up to the full retail listing, but it's really your last chance (No really, until we do another phase where you save $20!!!) to save some pennies.

The old expected release date becomes the new cutoff date for each new phase of preorders. The new cutoff date to me means that all of them have been delayed once again, and none will be released in December.

 

[castleofargh]

those who don't like to wait and don't like surprises, well you probably shouldn't have signed in on something that is not already waiting in a storage facility for delivery. it's not a critic, just my honest opinion. if saving a few bucks is going to tear you apart inside, it's probably not worth it.
don't get me wrong, it's not like I enjoy waiting for the only piece of audio tech that really excited me in the last years. and I was drooling on the A8 telling myself that 3000euro was too much but still really wishing I had one. so I'm up there in the desire-O'meter. but I knew what I was getting into the second I saw it on Kickstarter. to me it meant:
-nothing is done.
-like 2/3 of the projects just fail.
-as for the estimated time table I can sit on it right away.

and I don't think those were pessimistic views. the real world isn't gentle with complicated projects.

 

[J.Villain]

I don't see any reason why Smyth would strip features out of the A16. The delay at this point appears to be certifications & assembly.
The last few months are always painful because everyone is impatient and sick of the absence of news. To be honest, I hate Kickstarter sometimes.

The number one reason I can think of to strip features is some thing going wrong in certification. I don't expect that to happen however.

We are at the point that they should be able to do regular good news up dates.

Hey all the parts for the demos are in.
Hey all the demo units are built and shipped for certification
Hey we have passed certification.
Hey we have placed the orders for all the KS unit parts.
Hey all the parts for the KS units have arrived.
Hey we shipped the first unit.

If we go another month with silence that will be a bad sign.

 

[Sordel]

We are at the point that they should be able to do regular good news up dates.

Amen!

 

[sahmen]

Incidentally, do any Smyth Realiser reps or employees ever post on this thread, or follow the discussions on it? Does anyone know?

 

[sander99]

@Erik Garci: I saw your question on the Yarra 3DX kickstarter page about using the Yarra to project the two Realiser user A and B outputs for two respective listeners. I hadn't even thought this through, I just assumed it would be possible. So the answer is disapointing. I was thinking of backing the Yarra 3DX but now I am doubting. Or I should buy 2 Yarra's .
I can not post on the kickstarter page, maybe you can ask the Yarra people if that "future version" could be in the form of just a firmware update or that the current hardware can never support that?
Maybe they should think this through themselves and even consider a hardware update, it makes a big difference for all those nice ideas of combining the Realiser with the Yarra if only one or if two people can have the optimal experience simultaneously.

But maybe there is a workaround: create a 4.0 channel signal (encoded as PCM 4.0, or Dolby True HD 4.0, of DTS HD if the Yarra can decode at least one of those formats), 2 channels containing the user A signal, 2 channels containing the user B signal, and let the Yarra people provide two special HRTF user settings (on the Yarra device), one passing on the first 2 channels neutral, and muting the last 2 channels, and the other one the other way round. (I assume now that two Yarra users can choose different HRTF user settings) Only question is: where do you merge the two 2.0 signals into one 4.0 signal? In a seperate device? Maybe a pc? Well, it's just a theoretical idea but maybe it can inspire the Yarra people to think of something along these lines.
[Edit: for the Realiser hardware I think this would be a peace of cake: combine the two user headphone signals into a 4.0 pcm over the hdmi out. If Smyth and Comhear want to work together on this it could be done. But without further delaying the Realiser production of course, but as a future firmware update...]
[Edit2: I have sent a message to Smith and Comhear (Yarra) with a detailed description of this idea for a workaround]
[Edit3: I received a reply from Mark Waldrep (Yarra):
"I think you have a solid idea…thanks,

Mark"
]

 

[Erik Garci]

Or I should buy 2 Yarra's .

One Yarra per person would probably work, but only if one person cannot hear the other person's Yarra (or barely hears it), which is a mode that they are looking into adding.

But maybe there is a workaround: create a 4.0 channel signal

I proposed using optical and analog signals, which seems simpler and more flexible. The Realiser already provides analog and optical outputs for each user, and the Yarra will have an analog input and an optical input. In addition, any sources that have analog and/or optical outputs could be used.

Realiser 2-channel optical output for user A ==> Yarra optical input
Realiser 2-channel analog output for user B ==> Yarra analog input

 

[sander99]

I proposed using optical and analog signals, which seems simpler and more flexible. The Realiser already provides analog and optical outputs for each user, and the Yarra will have an analog input and an optical input. In addition, any sources that have analog and/or optical outputs could be used.

Realiser 2-channel optical output for user A ==> Yarra optical input
Realiser 2-channel analog output for user B ==> Yarra analog input

I understand that, but from Comhear's answer to your question I understand it might not be possible with the current hardware. And the positive reaction I got from Mark Waldrep concerning my idea for a workaround seems to confirm that.

Btw, I will add here how I described my idea to them:

I have an idea for a possible workaround that would enable 2 persons to use the combination of the Realiser A16 with the Yarra 3DX, both users having the fully independent personalised experience.

(As I understood from a question and answer on the Yarra kickstarter page the Yarra 3DX can not proces 2 stereo inputs, beaming one stereo signal to one person and the other stereo signal to the other person.)

Part 1, on the Smyth side (as a future firmware update for the A16, not delaying the production):
Enable the Realiser A16 to combine the two user headphone output signals into one 4.0 channel PCM signal over the HDMI out.
(Channel 1 = user A Left, channel 2 = user A Right, channel 3 = user B left, channel 4 = user B right)

Part 2, on the Comhear side (could be a future update of the available HRTF user settings):
Create two special HRTF user settings, say A and B.
A should pass channel 1 to the left ear of user A, and channel 2 to the right ear of user A, and mute channel 3 and 4.
B should pass channel 3 to the left ear of user B, and channel 4 to the right ear of user B, and mute channel 1 and 2.

 

[Erik Garci]

I understand that, but from Comhear's answer to your question I understand it might not be possible with the current hardware. And the positive reaction I got from Mark Waldrep concerning my idea for a workaround seems to confirm that.

As I understand it, your idea is to send 4 channels over a single HDMI signal. My idea is to send the same 4 channels, 2 over optical and 2 over analog. Maybe the internal circuitry of the Yarra lends itself to the HDMI approach.

I prefer my idea because my A8 lacks HDMI.

Part 2, on the Comhear side (could be a future update of the available HRTF user settings):

In this scenario, the Yarra would not be applying any HRTFs. The Realiser has already applied the HRTFs (aka PRIRs). The Yarra would merely be projecting the appropriate channel to the appropriate ear, so that each ear hears only that channel, similar to listening with headphones. The Yarra uses beamforming, not HRTFs, to do so.

Realiser left output for user A ==> Yarra beam 1 ==> left ear of user A
Realiser right output for user A ==> Yarra beam 2 ==> right ear of user A
Realiser left output for user B ==> Yarra beam 3 ==> left ear of user B
Realiser right output for user B ==> Yarra beam 4 ==> right ear of user B

Supposedly the Yarra can project to a 3rd user as well, and these signals could even be different from the other 4.

Multichannel signal ==> Yarra HRTF for left ear ==> Yarra beam 5 ==> left ear of user C
Multichannel signal ==> Yarra HRTF for right ear ==> Yarra beam 6 ==> right ear of user C

 

[sander99]

In this scenario, the Yarra would not be applying any HRTFs. The Realiser has already applied the HRTFs (aka PRIRs). The Yarra would merely be projecting the appropriate channel to the appropriate ear, so that each ear hears only that channel, similar to listening with headphones. The Yarra uses beamforming, not HRTFs, to do so.

Also that I understand, with a "special HRTF user setting" I meant a kind of dummy that instead of applying an actual HRTF function just does what I described above, just pass through a certain channel to one certain ear, and ignore a certain channel (mute) etc. This functionality fits within the normal functionality of a "HRTF user setting" (I call it this way because Comhear uses this phrase, maybe they should call it a BRIR). Of course in this idea several things are used in a way they were not intended to be used (that's why I call it a "workaround"), but it is possible to do it this way.

But I did not think about using an A8 without HDMI, then it becomes a different matter indeed.

I also know abou the third user, in fact my idea maybe can be generalised to using a 6.0 channel pcm input signal containing 3 stereo input signals (but of course the Realiser A16 can provide only 2 binauralised stereo signals, but maybe it could "pass through" an unprocessed stereo input signal (from 2 of the 16 analog inputs, or whatever) as the third stereo output...

And of course it would have been nicer if the Yarra could simply use 3 different inputs for the 3 users. But if indeed that can only be done in a future version (not the one we can back now on kickstarter), then at least this workaround could do the trick with the first version in combination with the A16.

 

[jgazal]

As I understand it, your idea is to send 4 channels over a single HDMI signal. My idea is to send the same 4 channels, 2 over optical and 2 over analog. Maybe the internal circuitry of the Yarra lends itself to the HDMI approach.

I prefer my idea because my A8 lacks HDMI.

In this scenario, the Yarra would not be applying any HRTFs. The Realiser has already applied the HRTFs (aka PRIRs). The Yarra would merely be projecting the appropriate channel to the appropriate ear, so that each ear hears only that channel, similar to listening with headphones. The Yarra uses beamforming, not HRTFs, to do so.

Realiser left output for user A ==> Yarra beam 1 ==> left ear of user A
Realiser right output for user A ==> Yarra beam 2 ==> right ear of user A
Realiser left output for user B ==> Yarra beam 3 ==> left ear of user B
Realiser right output for user B ==> Yarra beam 4 ==> right ear of user B

Supposedly the Yarra can project to a 3rd user as well, and these signals could even be different from the other 4.

Multichannel signal ==> Yarra HRTF for left ear ==> Yarra beam 5 ==> left ear of user C
Multichannel signal ==> Yarra HRTF for right ear ==> Yarra beam 6 ==> right ear of user C

If you are using the yarra subwoofer, what bass settings in the A16 would you choose?

 

[sander99]

If you are using the yarra subwoofer, what bass settings in the A16 would you choose?

Ah, that makes me realise: because of the subwoofer the whole idea of letting different users listen to totally different input source material with the Yarra is not so good after all!
But using it for independently binauralised versions of the same source it is still good, as the bass and localisation have not so much relation to eachother.

 

[jgazal]

Ah, that makes me realise: because of the subwoofer the whole idea of letting different users listen to totally different input source material with the Yarra is not so good after all!
But using it for independently binauralised versions of the same source it is still good, as the bass and localisation have not so much relation to eachother.

AFAIK, the directional frequencies are above the low pass band. There isn’t beaforming at that lower band also.
Nevertheless, one of the advantages of using headphones and a tactile transducer is to accurately reproduce the lower band from the measured room and avoid the bass overhigh, standing waves and all sort of nasty distortions regular listening rooms add to such lower band.
Why not the yarra sound bar without the subwoofer and its LFE output directly to tactile transducers?
I wanted to say “if you were using” in my post above.

 

[Erik Garci]

Also that I understand, with a "special HRTF user setting" I meant a kind of dummy that instead of applying an actual HRTF function just does what I described above, just pass through a certain channel to one certain ear, and ignore a certain channel (mute) etc. This functionality fits within the normal functionality of a "HRTF user setting" (I call it this way because Comhear uses this phrase, maybe they should call it a BRIR). Of course in this idea several things are used in a way they were not intended to be used (that's why I call it a "workaround"), but it is possible to do it this way.

I understand what you meant. It's just a terminology issue. HRTF is the first process that converts the multichannel source to binauralized signals (which are not yet sound in the air). HRTF can be performed by the Realiser or by the Yarra. Beamforming is the subsequent process in the Yarra that converts the binauralized signals to 12 separate signals (each one specific to each speaker driver) and thus projects sound to each ear. They are two separate processes, although the marketing literature conflates them sometimes.