Smyth Research Realiser A16

[esimms86]

I hope they have time to make a setup video showing a typical "how to" for the people that don't want to do a ton of reading. Wire routing, home theater pass thru, calibrations, using the store vs. various recommended sites to fly into to do calibrations. (step by step in how to contact studios, what to do when you get there, how to do the calibration once you get there, typical expense). This would help the masses to quickly get onboard. I am thinking that probably 90% of the mass user would never go to a studio if the implementation of the online marketplace goes at it seems. But rather spend their time going thru the different marketplace options and find the one that is best for them. Im thinking we each have been trained, over time, to determine home theater sounds that best to each individual personally. I hate to say it, I have yet to hear a theater that blows my socks off. Granted, I have not be to LA. The implementations of Atmos here in Indy and Ohio have been pathetic.

My understanding from folks with the A8 is that there is a learning curve to doing calibrations and making a PRIR so a video in that regard would go a long way. I expect that a sizeable percentage of Kickstarter buyers are people who have been to CanJam or other demos so a lot of us already have Dolby Atmos PRIRs that will come already installed in our A16s. I would also anticipate that many people will at least have access to a good 2 channel set up(maybe even their own) that they can use for making 2 channel PRIRs. This at least would be good for late night stereo listening. I'd also be very interested in trying to set up a PRIR with the Yarra 3dx when that product comes out in the spring or thereafter.

 

[Erik Garci]

I would also anticipate that many people will at least have access to a good 2 channel set up(maybe even their own) that they can use for making 2 channel PRIRs. This at least would be good for late night stereo listening.

They can also make multichannel PRIRs using just 1 or 2 speakers.

I'd also be very interested in trying to set up a PRIR with the Yarra 3dx when that product comes out in the spring or thereafter.

Do you mean using the Yarra 3dx to make a PRIR, or using it instead of headphones for playback? I see it as being more useful for playback, which is what I plan to try. If you just want to make a crosstalk-free PRIR, you don't have to use the Yarra 3dx, because there is a method that lets you use any speaker to make one.

 

[kh36267]

I was wondering whether anyone who has been to one of the A16 demos has also had experience with the Beyerdyamic Headzone and it's approach to surround sound? I have been using the Headzone for several years and was wondering if the difference between the Headzone and A16 is vastly superior?

I am already an early contributor to the Kickstarter campaign for the A16 and eagerly looking forward to the ship date. Just curious if anyone might have insight on the difference between the two approaches....

 

[esimms86]

They can also make multichannel PRIRs using just 1 or 2 speakers.

Do you mean using the Yarra 3dx to make a PRIR, or using it instead of headphones for playback? I see it as being more useful for playback, which is what I plan to try. If you just want to make a crosstalk-free PRIR, you don't have to use the Yarra 3dx, because there is a method that lets you use any speaker to make one.

I plan to do both. I also understand that using a single speaker to make a multichannel PRIR(particularly for Dolby Atmos or Auro 3D)is a somewhat involved procedure. I assume you've done it for 5.1/7.1 with the A8 and I would love to hear you say that it's a piece of cake.

 

[Erik Garci]

I also understand that using a single speaker to make a multichannel PRIR(particularly for Dolby Atmos or Auro 3D)is a somewhat involved procedure. I assume you've done it for 5.1/7.1 with the A8 and I would love to hear you say that it's a piece of cake.

I made a 7.0 PRIR with the A8 using a single speaker. I simply rotated in my chair to 12 different angles without moving the speaker. It was even quicker than measuring 7 separate speakers. Just 12 sweeps instead of 21. I suppose that the A16 will have a similar procedure and might let you add height channels by tilting your head at certain angles.

 

[J.Villain]

I hope it comes by Christmas, starting to get tired of waiting!!!

If they ship in December there is a real chance some people won't see them till next year due to xmas time shippingl crunch. I hope they keep that in mind.

 

[J.Villain]

I made a 7.0 PRIR with the A8 using a single speaker. I simply rotated in my chair to 12 different angles without moving the speaker. It was even quicker than measuring 7 separate speakers. Just 12 sweeps instead of 21. I suppose that the A16 will have a similar procedure and might let you add height channels by tilting your head at certain angles.

Were there any issues with that from the stand point of your brain being able to interpret that information? In theory every time you rotate you are now in a different room. I am not sure how the A-8 works but the A-16 or the exchange will give us the ability to either reduce the reverb or increase the decay I am not sure which. That should reduce the side effects of rotating.

I feel pretty confident that I will be able to find a 5.1 studio I can buy some time in as there are a number here on the left coast. But I would like to have a more complex one as well as I expect movies to have much more complex mixes over time as things like Atmos replace dedicated channels in newer receivers and even TVs.

 

[sahmen]

Okay, I have been reading much about the A16 lately, and am tempted to pull the trigger, taking advantage of the pre-order sale price before it expires on September 30th. I am only hesitating, because the operation and management of the unit (especially the PRIR/BRIR calibration processes) appear to be too complex sometimes, and I also do not know how much additional costs the related online operations will add up to...

So far the appeal for me of the unit lies in the access that it will provide to immersive object based audio formats (ATMOS, DTS-X, Auro-3d) via headphones... I would ideally like to have these formats operating in live "speaker-based" implementations, but that is not going to be possible for a while because of where I currently live, so the Smyth realiser solution seems the only viable option I have for now, if I want to go the 3d/object based audio route.

Now while I consider my options, could someone point me to a place where I can read actual impressions of independent enthusiasts who have actually demoed the A16 (I want "independent" impressions, as in those that are not listed by Smyth Realiser themselves either on their own website or on the Kickstarter page.

Could someone give me a layman's rundown on how difficult or expensive getting and implementing PRIR and BRIR calibrations might turn out to be for someone who cannot visit an actual professional studio, such as AIX, in order to get calibration profiles done? I ask because I am pretty much going to have to do everything by myself using my own speakers and measurement tools, because I am not going to have access to any pro studios and I need a realistic assessment of how manageable such tasks are going to be for me, as a layman..

Also, can this unit be exploited for speaker audio in a situation where one only has a pre-pro or avr that cannot handle Atmos/DTS-X/Auro 3d object based formats? (I do have the Oppo 203 which can handle blu ray discs with ATMOS/ DTS-X codecs, in case that helps)

Finally, how useful is this unit going to be for enhancing the quality of music that one listens to? This may not be terribly important, as I basically prefer my music in 2.1/2-channel mode, in which regard I consider myself to be decently well covered (for both headphone/speaker listening). I am asking only because I have not seen or read much literature about what possible enhancements the Realiser can bring to music listening, and I am willing to learn about whatever is out there on this front.

Any helpful thoughts would be highly appreciated.

 

[Fox1977]

Okay, I have been reading much about the A16 lately, and am tempted to pull the trigger, taking advantage of the pre-order sale price before it expires on September 30th. I am only hesitating, because the operation and management of the unit (especially the PRIR/BRIR calibration processes) appears to be too complex sometimes, and I also do not know how much additional costs the related online operations will add up to...

So far the appeal for me of the unit lies in the access that it will provide to immersive object based audio formats (ATMOS, DTS-X, Auro-3d) via headphones... I would ideally like to have these formats operating in live "speaker-based" implementations, but that is not going to be possible for a while because of where I currently live, so the Smyth realiser solution seems the only viable option I have for now, if I want to go the 3d/object based audio route for now.

Now while I consider my options, could someone point me to a place where I can read actual impressions of independent enthusiasts who have actually demoed the A16 (I want "independent" impressions, as in those that are not listed by Smyth Realiser themselves either on their own website or on the Kickstarter page.

Could someone give me a layman's rundown on how difficult or expensive getting and implementing PRIR and BRIR calibrations might turn out to be for someone who cannot visit an actual professional studio, such as AIX, in order to get calibration profiles done? I ask because I am pretty much going to have to do everything by myself using my own speakers and measurement tools, because I am not going to have access to any pro studios and I need a realistic assessment of how manageable such tasks are going to be for me, as a layman..

Also, can this unit be exploited for speaker audio in a situation where one only has a pre-pro or avr that cannot handle Atmos/DTS-X/Auro 3d object based formats? (I do have the Oppo 203 which can handle blu ray discs with ATMOS/ DTS-X codecs, in case that helps)

Finally, how useful is this unit going to be for enhancing the quality of music that one listens to? This may not be terribly important, as I basically prefer my music in 2.1/2-channel mode, in which regard I consider myself to be decently well covered (for both headphone/speaker listening). I am asking only because I have not seen or read much literature about what possible enhancements the Realiser can bring to music listening, and I am willing to learn about whatever is out there on this front.

Any helpful thoughts would be highly appreciated.

People on this forum, just like me, are not sent by the Smyth brothers to advertise about the A16. I ordered the A16 on Kickstarter and yet i am what you call an "independent enthusiast". When i ordered through Kickstarter on summer 2016, i hadn't tried it yet but i knew that anyway, even if i was eventually disappointed by the device, i could easily resell it once it's released without losing a cent since the price on Kickstarter was very low compared to retail price. My enthusiasm came two months from the demo i had in Paris.
In a hotel room, an Atmos 7.4.1 setup was installed. They made a capture for me (it's very easy, you just put the microphones correctly in your ears and launch the program ; it takes less than 5 minutes). After the headphones was calibrated too, they adjusted the volume of the headphones to match the actual speakers, and then they launched the A/B comparison. I am enthusiast because i simply couldn't tell if i was listening to the speakers or the headphones. When i was taking headphones off, a slight click was letting me know that the speakers were switched back on, but when i was putting the headphones back on, there was no click at all and i could not tell that i was listening to headphones. Yet i could still exactly pinpoint each speaker.
When i was done, my nephew got also the demo, and since i was still in the room, i could then witness that the speakers were really turning off.
Many of the other enthusiasts here got a similar experience, and that's precisely why we are very excited about getting our own A16.
One more precision : you say that you prefer your music in 2.1 mode. It's not a problem, if you feed a 7.4.1 PRIR with stereo music, only the 2 virtual front speakers will play it (i think there will be also a feature that will allow to play it on all the speakers to get surrounded by the music)

 

[Erik Garci]

Were there any issues with that from the stand point of your brain being able to interpret that information?

I did not notice any issues. I placed the single speaker closer to me and farther from the walls to reduce room effects. I can easily pinpoint each virtual speaker.

 

[MichaelJames99]

People on this forum, just like me, are not sent by the Smyth brothers to advertise about the A16. I ordered the A16 on Kickstarter and yet i am what you call an "independent enthusiast". When i ordered through Kickstarter on summer 2016, i hadn't tried it yet but i knew that anyway, even if i was eventually disappointed by the device, i could easily resell it once it's released without losing a cent since the price on Kickstarter was very low compared to retail price. My enthusiasm came two months from the demo i had in Paris.
In a hotel room, an Atmos 7.4.1 setup was installed. They made a capture for me (it's very easy, you just put the microphones correctly in your ears and launch the program ; it takes less than 5 minutes). After the headphones was calibrated too, they adjusted the volume of the headphones to match the actual speakers, and then they launched the A/B comparison. I am enthusiast because i simply couldn't tell if i was listening to the speakers or the headphones. When i was taking headphones off, a slight click was letting me know that the speakers were switched back on, but when i was putting the headphones back on, there was no click at all and i could not tell that i was listening to headphones. Yet i could still exactly pinpoint each speaker.
When i was done, my nephew got also the demo, and since i was still in the room, i could then witness that the speakers were really turning off.
Many of the other enthusiasts here got a similar experience, and that's precisely why we are very excited about getting our own A16.
One more precision : you say that you prefer your music in 2.1 mode. It's not a problem, if you feed a 7.4.1 PRIR with stereo music, only the 2 virtual front speakers will play it (i think there will be also a feature that will allow to play it on all the speakers to get surrounded by the music)

So Im guessing that they are not using any subs in any of these presentations? Im wondering how the bass sounds thru A16 and headphones compared to an Atmos theater, for example...? I know you are not going to get the sub thump thru the chest but want to know on the bass overall

 

[sander99]

So Im guessing that they are not using any subs in any of these presentations? Im wondering how the bass sounds thru A16 and headphones compared to an Atmos theater, for example...? I know you are not going to get the sub thump thru the chest but want to know on the bass overall

They do use a sub in the demo's, as part of the real speaker system. And they simulate the sub with the rest of the speaker system over headphones.
They don't use the real sub together with the simulation over headphones (to create the feeling in the chest) if that is what you meant. But it is possible to do that and/or use tactile devices (seat shakers).
The following is not done in the demo (not standard with everybody anyway), but is usefull to know:
The bass performance of the simulation over headphones can be improved (hugely) by using the direct bass option. This means that the bass below some crossover point is not played by the simulated speakers and/or subwoofer but mixed directly into the headphone signal. (But with appropiate delay of course, and in a podcast interview Stephen Smyth said this function is improved in the A16 with relative lef-right or right-left delay for bass coming from the left or from the right. Apart from this the bass has no influence on localisation of sound.)
This won't affect the "spatial qualities" of the simulation, but avoids all problems (room modes, resonances, cancellations) that real-in-room bass reproduction can give. The net result will be a bass performance as tight, accurate, fast and deep as the used headphones can produce, and thanks to the HPEQ very neutral too. And if you don't like it neutral maybe you can manually change the HPEQ accordingly or something like that.

 

[MichaelJames99]

Thank you. So I am still wondering if it is worth it to upgrade my AKG 712 Pro to a 800 or 800s or LCD 3... I consider the AKG maybe a mid level headphone and the others as more high end. Spec wise they are similar though and since the A16 is duplicating the source environment..hmmm

 

[castleofargh]

People on this forum, just like me, are not sent by the Smyth brothers to advertise about the A16. I ordered the A16 on Kickstarter and yet i am what you call an "independent enthusiast". When i ordered through Kickstarter on summer 2016, i hadn't tried it yet but i knew that anyway, even if i was eventually disappointed by the device, i could easily resell it once it's released without losing a cent since the price on Kickstarter was very low compared to retail price. My enthusiasm came two months from the demo i had in Paris.
In a hotel room, an Atmos 7.4.1 setup was installed. They made a capture for me (it's very easy, you just put the microphones correctly in your ears and launch the program ; it takes less than 5 minutes). After the headphones was calibrated too, they adjusted the volume of the headphones to match the actual speakers, and then they launched the A/B comparison. I am enthusiast because i simply couldn't tell if i was listening to the speakers or the headphones. When i was taking headphones off, a slight click was letting me know that the speakers were switched back on, but when i was putting the headphones back on, there was no click at all and i could not tell that i was listening to headphones. Yet i could still exactly pinpoint each speaker.
When i was done, my nephew got also the demo, and since i was still in the room, i could then witness that the speakers were really turning off.
Many of the other enthusiasts here got a similar experience, and that's precisely why we are very excited about getting our own A16.
One more precision : you say that you prefer your music in 2.1 mode. It's not a problem, if you feed a 7.4.1 PRIR with stereo music, only the 2 virtual front speakers will play it (i think there will be also a feature that will allow to play it on all the speakers to get surrounded by the music)

yeah I was thinking the same thing, most of the testimonies on the kickstarter page are members we know who aren't affiliated in any way with Smyth. and I've seen them posting stuff very much in phase with the quotes in this very forum right after coming back from whatever show they were at. I think they just really got impressed by the demo.

 

[sander99]

Now while I consider my options, could someone point me to a place where I can read actual impressions of independent enthusiasts who have actually demoed the A16 (I want "independent" impressions, as in those that are not listed by Smyth Realiser themselves either on their own website or on the Kickstarter page.

There are people in this thread that have experienced the demo, or own a Realiser A8, and will vouch for how well the Realiser works. Of course in theory you can never be sure of someone's objectivity but if you read in this thread I hope you get the feeling you can trust at least some of the people here. If you google for reviews of the A8 you will find a few and what is said in those will be a good indication for what the A16 is capable of.
I have expierenced a demo myself in Munich Germany last May, and I assure you I have no affiliation with Smyth, and nothing to gain by lying or exaggerating about this, this is what I experienced:
It is really hard to tell the difference between the real speakers and the simulated speakers. Initially when I first heared the sound over headphones I had to ask if I was really hearing the headphones and not the speakers. Like the first guy in the video of Munich 2016. In fact I could tell the difference at some moment, but only because there was a slight level mismatch (the simulation over headphones was a tiny bit louder or softer - I don't remember which of the two, and I think there was a ever so slight difference in sound colour but maybe I imagined that - possibly as a result of the small volume difference. I think this was caused by the fact that the headphone during the HPEQ measurement was a little bit out of the optimal position on my head, and hence in a different position than during the rest of the demo. This year they used a Stax instead of the Sennheisser they used in 2016 in Munich, and this Stax tended to sit a little bit to low on my head. Luckily this doesn't affect the PRIR measurement that was made, the HPEQ I have to do again at home anyway with my own headphones.) But the feeling of hearing speakers was 100% convincing. It is a strange feeling: it is as if the headphones on your head have nothing to do with the sound you hear, it feels like the sound is coming from outside, from the speakers. I have never experienced something like this before. (I have listened to samples of DTS Headphone X for example: there you sometimes think a sound comes a little more from the front of your head, or a little bit more from the back, nothing more, it stil is practically in your head or a little bit around, and could never for a millisecond be mistaken for sound coming from speakers or other sources far outside of your head.) After the measurement they first one by one let each of the speakers play alone, and let you compare the sound of that speaker with the sound over the headphones. Over the headphones the sound just seemed to stil be coming out of that speaker, and seemed to have nothing to do with the headphones on my head.
Like Fox1977 I also witnessed other people getting the demo so I witnessed that indeed the speakers were not playing when they put on the headphones. Another guy waiting to get the demo was present in the room during my demo, I thought I had noticed a Dutch accent so I asked him in Dutch (I'm Dutch also): "They are not fooling me are they? The speakers are really quiet when I put the headphones on?" and he confirmed that.