[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raccoon /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're being a bit rude, which isn't necessary. He's saying he's read your posts, but disagrees with what you're saying - no point in comparing the levels at 200Hz with 6KHz and saying since they're nearly the same that there isn't a spike. You have to look at the 6Khz region to the frequencies immediately before and after. He also noticed this spike when testing the headphones, well before these graphs came out. I got my graph (I'll eventually upload it) and there's definitely a spike in mine. I don't notice it when listening to my pair, or maybe I do but prefer it. Who knows. Some people are sensitive to this, such as Skylab, and these graphs help explain those spikes people are hearing. No need to get defensive.

Hi, raccoon. I'll accept your reprimand with appreciation if I'm reassured that you've read the entire exchange instead of this one comment. For a synopsis, please see my post #114. Also see shellylh's and Hopstretch's recent comments re their early HD800 serial numbers. Skylab's comment, which began this subthread, denigrates our (and all the other) HD800s with early serial numbers. And this is based on what he calls an "obvious spike" at 6kHz, which cripples them severely and, in essence, makes them worthless. My point to Skylab is that a spike is a visual impression that is relative to the rest of the curve. In all the posted charts, when the "spike" is viewed from the perspective of the entire curve, it is not a spike because it lines up with the flat curve. The 6kHz frequency list I provide explains just how far off the individual frequencies are from the flat. Based on this sample, the variation from flat is very slight.

Re the "spike" that appears as a result of the 3kHz dip -- I mention this from my initial post in this subthread. Yes, if viewed against the 3kHz dip, the 6kHz frequency appears to be a spike. But, again, if viewed from the perspective of the entire graph, the 6kHz "spike" disappears since it lines up nearly perfectly with the flat.

Finally, I point out that the 3kHz dip may be an interesting topic to pursue.

I appreciate your taking the time to comment, and I hope you'll give me a fair shake by carefully reviewing the pertinent posts. And if you still feel the same after you've done so, then I'll accept your graceful censure.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellylh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess I better keep my HD800 because nobody is going to buy my peaky FR!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ztsen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is that mean when you sell your HD800, ppl will ask for the graph 1st? No 6khz peak have higher price? better resales value.

Yes, shellylh and ztsen, IF we take Skylab's 6kHz peak comment at face value. My point is that his statement is, at best, thoughtless, and at worst, harmful. With one careless comment, he denigrates all the HD800s with early serial numbers. (And he specifically names me and shellylh.) If he had a valid point, I'd thank him. But, in my opinion, his comment is based on a failure to fully understand the HD800 graphs that are being posted in this thread. I explain my perspective in message #114.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, shellylh and ztsen, IF we take Skylab's 6kHz peak comment at face value. My point is that his statement is, at best, thoughtless, and at worst, harmful. With one careless comment, he denigrates all the HD800s with early serial numbers. (And he specifically names me and shellylh.) If he had a valid point, I'd thank him. But, in my opinion, his comment is based on a failure to fully understand the HD800 graphs that are being posted in this thread. I explain my perspective in message #114.

Feifan:

I cannot see how my comment (repeated word for word below) denigrates, or makes in any way worthless your HD800. I do not know how you get this from my post. But if that is how you, or anyone, took it, I do most sincerely apologize for that - this was certainly not my intent at all - I was simply wondering out loud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yep. And we've all already debated whether it's meaningful, but I still can't help but wonder - if my review pair had been a high serial number, and had a FR like pompon's, would I have felt the same way about it, versus FR's like Shellylh and Feifans, which are similar SN's to mine, and have the obvious 6kHz peak. Unless I get to try a high serial number pair someday, I will never know

I have never attacked you personally, but you have done that repeatedly to me, and from your above post, seem happy to continue to do so.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Feifan: I cannot see how my comment (repeated word for word below) denigrates, or makes in any way worthless your HD800.

Skylab, this comment goes a long way toward explaining your comments.

Quote:

I do not know how you get this from my post. But if that is how you took it, I do sincerely apologize for that - this was certainly not my intent - I was simply wondering out loud.

[emphasis added]
This comment (highlighted) also explains your comments. You seem not to appreciate the difference between "wondering" and actually posting a potentially damaging comment. We all think many thoughts, but we prudently don't publish them all.

Quote:

I have never attacked you personally, but you have done that repeatedly to me, and from your above post, seem happy to continue to do so.

[emphasis added]
This comment (highlighted) also explains your comments. You don't seem to fully understand what you're saying. A shame.

 

[Skylab]

OK, so I apologize to you, and you once again personally attack me. That says it all.

I'm out. Apologies to shellylh and all other Senn HD800 owners if you feel my comments were in any way an attack on you personally. I never believed that comments on gear were reflections on their owners. Apparently this view is not universal.

 

[John Willett]

Please guys - please, do not be so sensitive.

I have appreciated both your posts, Skylab and Feifan, and have not read either of you as personally attacking each other. And I have read all of your posts on several threads.

Yes, a few pointed questions, maybe - but I have not seen it as real personal attacks from either side.

This is just my plea to both of you - both whose posts I appreciate as honest and genuine and of value to everyone.

Please shake hands and call it a draw - I can see you are both genuine people, passionate about headphones and both of you post comments that are helpful to everyone - I may not agree with all of them, but that does not make them any less valuable and appreciated.

Please ........................

Thank you.

 

[k3oxkjo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, shellylh and ztsen, IF we take Skylab's 6kHz peak comment at face value. My point is that his statement is, at best, thoughtless, and at worst, harmful. With one careless comment, he denigrates all the HD800s with early serial numbers. (And he specifically names me and shellylh.) If he had a valid point, I'd thank him. But, in my opinion, his comment is based on a failure to fully understand the HD800 graphs that are being posted in this thread. I explain my perspective in message #114.

Ay yi yi! Again THIS is why Sennheiser is nuts.

We don't know whether the small differences in the measurements between earlier and later pairs are real or the result of a change in measurement technique, setup or mic recalibration. Or it may be real...

At any rate, we are looking at at raw data modified by an EQ. Change the EQ and the 3kc dip could become a peak and the 6 kc peak a dip...

 

[gevorg]

Haven't read the whole thread but:

Looking at those big "square steps" or whatever they're called, these graphs look like they have been smoothed out quite a bit. The HeadRoom measurements seem to have much better resolution (smaller steps).

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3oxkjo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ay yi yi! Again THIS is why Sennheiser is nuts. We don't know whether the small differences in the measurements between earlier and later pairs are real or the result of a change in measurement technique, setup or mic recalibration. Or it may be real... At any rate, we are looking at at raw data modified by an EQ. Change the EQ and the 3kc dip could become a peak and the 6 kc peak a dip...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlosak /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think so. All of the graphs posted so far fall into the toleration zone (-3dB) as stated in the technical specification.

k3oxkjo and Karlosak, I think your comments shed the brightest lights in this subthread on the so-called 6kHz peak. Thanks.

John Willett, according to the FR graphs released by Grace, some of the m902b upgrades create an abnormal peak at 6kHz. Your serial number is mentioned as an example. Thus, if I were contemplating purchasing or upgrading to the m902b, I'd pass on it and get the m902, the original model which doesn't have this peak.

Nah! Jus' kidding. No such graph. No such peak. And I'm ready to swap my m902 for your m902b anytime.

Thank you for your peace-making. Skylab and I get into it, but that makes us more like brothers than enemies. If we ever have a chance to sit down together for some beers, I know I'd enjoy it immensely. There's nothing like a hard fought pickup basketball game in the gym to cement a friendship. Skylab, cheers!

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Skylab and I get into it, but that makes us more like brothers than enemies. If we ever have a chance to sit down together for some beers, I know I'd enjoy it immensely. There's nothing like a hard fought pickup basketball game in the gym to cement a friendship. Skylab, cheers!

Or perhaps, in this case, an ultimate fighting match followed a tequila shot drinking contest

But I am sure you're right - we'd enjoy meeting in real life, I'm certain. Cheers to you as well

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or perhaps, in this case, an ultimate fighting match followed a tequila shot drinking contest

Hey, I didn't know you were into the martial arts. What's your style?

 

[raccoon]

Alright, now that everybody has hugged, here is my horrible graph!



Nasty spike, but my ears are titanium they can take it

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, I didn't know you were into the martial arts. What's your style?

My knowledge of martial arts begins and ends with the few years of Karate my son took. But I occasionally check out UF matches on Versus at night -- while listening to my bedside headphone rig, of course

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nah! And I'm ready to swap my m902 for your m902b anytime.

Actually, I bought the original m902 and had the "B" upgrade when it came out as I wanted the balanced line out to drive my K+H O110D monitors.

I actually asked Grace if the balanced out was good for driving balanced headphones, but they had not thought about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you for your peace-making. Skylab and I get into it, but that makes us more like brothers than enemies. If we ever have a chance to sit down together for some beers, I know I'd enjoy it immensely. There's nothing like a hard fought pickup basketball game in the gym to cement a friendship. Skylab, cheers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or perhaps, in this case, an ultimate fighting match followed a tequila shot drinking contest But I am sure you're right - we'd enjoy meeting in real life, I'm certain. Cheers to you as well

To be honest, I would love to join you both in that drink - but if it's beer, please make it Czech or Belgian and not American.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif My knowledge of martial arts begins and ends with the few years of Karate my son took. But I occasionally check out UF matches on Versus at night -- while listening to my bedside headphone rig, of course

Did your son train under Sugiyama-sensei?