[Skylab]

No - Kenpo / Ed Parker System

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif No - Kenpo / Ed Parker System

Thank you for sharing that info, Skylab.

 

[peanuthead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif No - Kenpo / Ed Parker System

My Kung Fu is better than yours!

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanuthead /img/forum/go_quote.gif My Kung Fu is better than yours!

LOL! Almost certainly

 

[ztsen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or perhaps, in this case, an ultimate fighting match followed a tequila shot drinking contest But I am sure you're right - we'd enjoy meeting in real life, I'm certain. Cheers to you as well

Oh God, finally world peace again.

Cannot imagine talk headphone also can be end up ugly. Appreciate to those take initiative to appology and forgiving.

Appreciate your time for review too.

 

[shellylh]

Not at all, I was being somewhat facetious when I said that no one would buy my HD800 with the peaky FQ. Sorry if anyone thought I was complaining. I am personally have a heck a great time listening to the HD800's with or without the 6K peak. The funny thing is that the only two pairs of cans I have sold because of sibilance were both Beyerdynamics (stock 770 pro 80 ohm and 990 (2005) 250 ohm) and Skylab seems to have a special fondness for Beyers (please correct me if I am incorrect Skylab) - albeit, probably the recabled or 600 ohm which are supposed to have smoother, less sibilant treble. Certainly, Darth Beyers are much better than stock for sibilance in my opinion. In fact, I thought my 770's were broken when I first got them because they were so sibilant. I am getting off tangent so I will stop typing now. The point is that we all hear things differently.

But, no, I did not in any way feel attacked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, so I apologize to you, and you once again personally attack me. That says it all. I'm out. Apologies to shellylh and all other Senn HD800 owners if you feel my comments were in any way an attack on you personally. I never believed that comments on gear were reflections on their owners. Apparently this view is not universal.

 

[dallan]

I am almost afraid to post my graph after all of this.

 

[feifan]

Dallan and others, please post your graphs. They provide information that's still very useful. I think there's still a lot of unanswered questions and opinions about what the graphs actually mean. Perhaps now that emotions have settled we can have a meaningful discussion. I definitely would like to hear other opinions about the 3kHz and 6kHz frequencies -- as well as other thoughts on the graphs themselves. I now consider the HD800 the center of my rig and plan to upgrade different components using it as the base and reference. Thus, I want to learn as much as I can about it, and the graphs seem to be as good a starting point as any to analyze the HD800. I realize it gives us only limited info and that we can't accurately generalize from it, but it gives us a common ground.

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dallan and others, please post your graphs. They provide information that's still very useful. I think there's still a lot of unanswered questions and opinions about what the graphs actually mean. Perhaps now that emotions have settled we can have a meaningful discussion. I definitely would like to hear other opinions about the 3kHz and 6kHz frequencies -- as well as other thoughts on the graphs themselves. I now consider the HD800 the center of my rig and plan to upgrade different components using it as the base and reference. Thus, I want to learn as much as I can about it, and the graphs seem to be as good a starting point as any to analyze the HD800. I realize it gives us only limited info and that we can't accurately generalize from it, but it gives us a common ground.

Cool feifan, way to go! This is much better. Nobody attacks your HD800, we're just discussing it

If you notice, Sennheiser is using 3KHz as the loudness reference, just like "Fletcher-Munson"' curves.

All the 3KHz is not even 'dip' it's all ZERO, or close to zero, or at least it is the lowest point from all the frequency.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you notice, Sennheiser is using 3KHz as the loudness reference, just like "Fletcher-Munson"' curves. All the 3KHz is not even 'dip' it's all ZERO, or close to zero, or at least it is the lowest point from all the frequency.

Thanks for bringing this up, RedBull. I think discussing it might help to resolve some of the issues that have been bugging us.

I've been thinking about this, and I'm assuming that the 3kHz "dip" or whatever we call it is a Sennheiser correction to match an ideal curve (Fletcher-Munson) that's meant to minimize irritation in a frequency range (upper midrange, 2kHz-4kHz) that people are especially sensitive to. Keeping it flat would translate to a brightness that causes fatigue. To prevent this brightness, they've lowered the audio level at the 3kHz frequency so it appears as a dip. Then the return to flat at 6kHz is a way to match the harmonics with the established curve, creating an ideal SQ. All of this is, I'm assuming, by design, and carefully monitored by the technicians. The result is the HD800 sound that some of us really like.

This is just my opinion, and I have no idea whether it's correct or not. I'm sure there are many other explanations and views, and I'm interested in hearing them.

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for bringing this up, RedBull. I think discussing it might help to resolve some of the issues that have been bugging us. I've been thinking about this, and I'm assuming that the 3kHz "dip" or whatever we call it is a Sennheiser correction to match an ideal curve (Fletcher-Munson) that's meant to minimize irritation in a frequency range (upper midrange, 2kHz-4kHz) that people are especially sensitive to. Keeping it flat would translate to a brightness that causes fatigue. To prevent this brightness, they've lowered the audio level at the 3kHz frequency so it appears as a dip. Then the return to flat at 6kHz is a way to match the harmonics with the established curve, creating an ideal SQ. All of this is, I'm assuming, by design, and carefully monitored by the technicians. The result is the HD800 sound that some of us really like. This is just my opinion, and I have no idea whether it's correct or not. I'm sure there are many other explanations and views, and I'm interested in hearing them.

Thanks.

Yes, and the dB number is not an absolute number, but instead, it is a 'relative' number to 3 KHz, apparently.

So we read it as, at the same power thrown at it, (example)
6 KHz is 5 dB louder than 3 KHz and
8 KHz is 3 dB louder than 3 KHz.

If this is an absolute number, how do we read it? 3 KHz as 0 dB, 0 dB from what? 3 KHz no sound?

This is what I think how to read it.

 

[pkshan]

 

[dallan]

Ya I'll put mine on tonight, looks kind of like the one in the lower 600s but the peak is not as high, just over the 2.5 db on the 6 khz point. Serial #0694

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks. Yes, and the dB number is not an absolute number, but instead, it is a 'relative' number to 3 KHz, apparently. So we read it as, at the same power thrown at it, (example) 6 KHz is 5 dB louder than 3 KHz and 8 KHz is 3 dB louder than 3 KHz. If this is an absolute number, how do we read it? 3 KHz as 0 dB, 0 dB from what? 3 KHz no sound? This is what I think how to read it.

Thanks, RedBull.

I'm not sure if you've been following the thread on the "Audio-gd Phoenix balanced headphone amp" -- but IPodPJ reports a powerful (yet revealing) bass response in the HD800 when hooked up to the Phoenix, underscoring the fact that amp choice seems to have a definite effect on the HD800. I believe his result is based on the SE version of the HD800.

I wonder if other owners are also getting strong bass with their lineups. If yes, then I'd like to know which amps they're using and whether balanced or unbalanced. I'm especially interested in the SPL Phonitor, which allows the user to control the soundstage parameters.

pkshan, thanks for posting your #339 graph. dallan, thanks. looking forward to your #694 graph.

 

[Skylab]

I am almost 100% sure IPodPJ runs his HD800 balanced using his Phoenix, as he has recommended this to me, and indicates it has a significant impact on the HD800's bass performance. I am hopeful that my Phoenix review unit will come while I still have the HD800, but I will only be able to try it single ended, as I have no balanced cabled for the HD800.

What would be fascinating is if someone could MEASURE a pair of balanced and unbalanced HD800's and compare the differences (**KIDDING**)