[NightFlight]

Jay,

that was great info. I've been driving myself up the wall thinking about a need to upgrade my DAC (to be read as spend more). Your point is hence well taken. Sometimes a poor recording is a poor recording period and my mind plays games like "...if only I have a better DAC, a balanced DAC etc etc ". I suppose the Bifrost is a good enough DAC to take care of most of the perceptibly-imperceptible jitter. 

Jitter destroys soundstage, accuracy and detail. Almost everything actually. A well clocked source is obvious when a/b'd on a revealing system. Harder to notice on headphones, since the depth of set and stage is not nearly as evident. Jitter and turntables have nothing in common. I believe you might be thinking of wow and flutter that come out of systems that go straight down to DC.

 

[Llloyd]

Quote:

Yes, I do argue that DACs make a bigger difference than the Amp (so long as it's supplying sufficient power). Source is very important... it's like they say "garbage in, garbage out", so the source makes quite a big difference.

 
Wouldn't you say they make equal difference? I would put more weight on the source as well maybe 60% on the source, 40% to amp depending on your headphone of course(just generalizing here), so I suppose I agree with you but I would stress the importance of the amp just as much, because you'll never hear all those amazing details without a chain of components that offer such clarity.
 
I don't think head-fi really stresses the importance of having a solid DAC. When I was new to hifi it didn't really make sense to me the importance of a dac, and most of the new users and noobie discussions really skip over that part and just.. well I guess it's just a lot of fanboy stuff going on over whatever the current trend is. Not exactly people going legion status over DACs (even with schiit products which seem to have quite a few fanatics). I think the more informed people tend to stay away from that sort of discussion because it's easy to get beat down, and the people in those threads seem happy so why intrude.  Anyway IorekByrnison enjoy your new uberfrost. Seems like a great buy. The original was pretty nice, and I'm sure the upgrade fills in some of the weaknesses which would make a very strong contender for that price point.

 

[jaywillin]

i'm listening to the lyr and my ps500's, wow, i thought the LD 1+ was good, well it is, but......

 

[IorekByrnison]

With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
 
What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides. 
 
The Modi seems like it "succeeds at providing a sufficiently clean signal"
 
...and then you hear an Uberfrost.
 
Amp: $350
Headphones: $450
DAC: $550
 
To my old newbie self, that price-priority breakdown of my setup would seem absolutely ludicrous, but I wouldn't have it any other way now, it's absolutely perfect. The Modi->Uberfrost made a change that was not the least bit subtle - it slammed me in the face as much as going from the Magni to the Valhalla.

 

[Themorganlett85]

Quote:

With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
 
What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides. 
 
The Modi seems like it "succeeds at providing a sufficiently clean signal"
 
...and then you hear an Uberfrost.
 
Amp: $350
Headphones: $450
DAC: $550
 
To my old newbie self, that price-priority breakdown of my setup would seem absolutely ludicrous, but I wouldn't have it any other way now, it's absolutely perfect. The Modi->Uberfrost made a change that was not the least bit subtle - it slammed me in the face as much as going from the Magni to the Valhalla.

What kind of headphones did you choose with your setup?

 

[Llloyd]

Quote:

With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
 
What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides. 
 
The Modi seems like it "succeeds at providing a sufficiently clean signal"
 
...and then you hear an Uberfrost.
 
Amp: $350
Headphones: $450
DAC: $550
 
To my old newbie self, that price-priority breakdown of my setup would seem absolutely ludicrous, but I wouldn't have it any other way now, it's absolutely perfect. The Modi->Uberfrost made a change that was not the least bit subtle - it slammed me in the face as much as going from the Magni to the Valhalla.

 
Yeah you'll find, as you increase DAC quality, the bare minimum is a nice clean signal, but you'll find as you upgrade, the extension of both highs and lows increase as well as micro details. Sometimes you will find an added weight(I found the original bifrost to be a bit thin), increased dynamics, sound stage, etc etc. but I've personally found those first two attributes, extension and micro details, are generally the biggest differences, this especially applies to the HE-500, which I use 70-80% of the time, which has really good extension on both ends as well as great detail reveal.

 

[joebobbilly]

Quote:

With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
 
What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides. 
 
The Modi seems like it "succeeds at providing a sufficiently clean signal"
 
...and then you hear an Uberfrost.
 
Amp: $350
Headphones: $450
DAC: $550
 
To my old newbie self, that price-priority breakdown of my setup would seem absolutely ludicrous, but I wouldn't have it any other way now, it's absolutely perfect. The Modi->Uberfrost made a change that was not the least bit subtle - it slammed me in the face as much as going from the Magni to the Valhalla.

Indeed... if anything... the Amp is taking a magnifying glass to a picture that is already printed... whereas your DAC is the printer. So yes... amps are important to be able to see the finer details in the picture... but if your printer isn't printing with high enough resolution to begin with...

 

[Llloyd]

Quote:

Indeed... if anything... the Amp is taking a magnifying glass to a picture that is already printed... whereas your DAC is the printer. So yes... amps are important to be able to see the finer details in the picture... but if your printer isn't printing with high enough resolution to begin with...

 
yes~~ very nice analogy The only thing is with sub par amps you can in fact find a decrease in resolution from the original material, so this would be like, a warped glass? idk haha. This is why there is a strong emphasis on the whole chain of components. Most people work backwards from headphone to source which, I think is a good way to do it for someone getting into hifi.
 
It's just something to keep in mind the importance of all of the components. The DAC does not receive a ton of praise in the low/mid fi threads ie. schiits wheelhouse. 

 

[IorekByrnison]

Quote:

What kind of headphones did you choose with your setup?

 
Das T70 amped correctly, they're a work of magical art.

 

[Themorganlett85]

Quote:

 
Das T70 amped correctly, they're a work of magical art.

VERY nice.

 

[tuna47]

Have the lyr orange globes he500 and odac I just ordered the uberfrost hope to see a big difference besides price

 

[joebobbilly]

Yea, for me I didn't realize and experience the importance of the DAC until I switched to the Gungnir from an E17. Initially I simply thought the big change was going balanced and cause of the Mjolnir... but then I tried feeding my E09K with the Gungnir and found a very similar sonic presentation/signature. The key difference I heard was more so the difference in soundstage (due to balanced amp) and the speed of the dynamics (due to Mojo being much much more powerful) and overall more black background (also due to mojo measuring more clean). Otherwise the actual sonic signature (treble, mids, bass) sounded pretty much unchanged.
 

 

[cdbob]

I have someone that is offering to sell me a Bifrost revision one (no usb, just optical) and a Gen 1 Asgard Amp for $475.
 
Is that a good deal or not?

 

[wahsmoh]

Quote:

With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
 
What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides. 
 
The Modi seems like it "succeeds at providing a sufficiently clean signal"
 
...and then you hear an Uberfrost.
 
Amp: $350
Headphones: $450
DAC: $550
 
To my old newbie self, that price-priority breakdown of my setup would seem absolutely ludicrous, but I wouldn't have it any other way now, it's absolutely perfect. The Modi->Uberfrost made a change that was not the least bit subtle - it slammed me in the face as much as going from the Magni to the Valhalla.

I was in the same boat as you pal. I was scared at the thought of buying an external DAC since I already own a "high-end" soundcard (HT Omega Claro). My first investment was my DT880 that I purchased after Christmas for over 30% off ($250) and then decided to throw my money at an amplifier. I ended up going over the end of my "budget".
 
Asgard 2: $250
Uberfrost: $500(open-box brand new via Ebay)
DT880 recabled(MSRP+cable): $500
 
Now, I'm perfectly happy. I can't see how I could find improvements unless I moved to Summit-fi and opted for an LCD-2 or HE-500 and aim for a complimentary "bass" headphone. My DT880s aren't lacking in weight either now that they've been recabled, talk about a "punch" like a closed subwoofer on my head.

 

[BLACKENEDPLAGUE]

Realizing they probably have a lot of it, I wish Schiit would check their email. I have an issue they really need to take care of one way or the other