mrbrad
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2003
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The bass boost from a $20 Fiio E5 does wonders. However, it is a pain to have to carry around a second piece of hardware.
ClieOS said:
Quote:Pianist said:
Ok can you guys please explain what you mean when you say that RE0 sounds thin? Because I don't really understand it. You can't mean that it is thin becuase it is slightly lacking bass, becuase mids can also sound full and I think they do on the RE0. I also don't feel that the bass on RE0 is so lacking that it can be called thin. Like I said, the mid and upper bass on RE0 are very close to neutral to my ears and sound quite full and enjoyable to me
The way I see it, fullness can represent two kind of things:
First, a bump in the lower mid or upper bass (the so called mid-bass bump). By increasing the amount of mid-bass, it adds warmth and fullness to the overall sound. However, adding too much mid-bass creates excessive thickness and make the sound muddy or even veil (basically the mid-bass frequency begins to overflow and interfere with upper mid to lower treble).
Second, on a wider sense, it is the balance of transient, decay and harmonics. A fast attack gives a sense of realism, a good decay give a sense of good structure / body and a good harmonics show off the texture and depth. Together they make up the timbre. For examples, when there are fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics, it gives a lean note. When there are fast transient, good decay but not enough harmonics, it gives a note with no texture. When there are slow transient with too much decay and harmonics, it becomes muddy. As I have somewhat mentioned on my original review, RE0 bass is the kind with fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics. It has the impact, but not the body.
Hope these make sense.
Actually I find RE0 to be quite fast as dynamic. Of course BA is generally faster than most dynamic, but I have heard slow BA as well, and it is IMO that RE0 can keep up with most BA in transient (which is what determine the speed). Though I don't disagree with your comments that many people are used to warm sounding headphone. But the argument goes both ways: people who like the sound of BA regard RE0 to be relatively thick, and people who like warm sound find RE0 on the thin side. My opinion is, there is nothing wrong on both views or how it is expressed, just the different in perspective. But technical wise, my opinion is that RE0 doesn't have the proper thickness (or more precisely, the body and texture) in the bass and lower mid region. Some call it thin, I call it a bass that lacks good body and texture, though I think we are still referring to the same thing, but with different words. It is still a good enough performance that meets my average standard, just not a particularly great bass.
@savenger: I'm right there with you, I went through several weeks of an intense love-hate relationship with a borrowed pair of RE0s, hated them for their sound signature and loved them for being just a loaner
My listening consists of 50% classical, 30% acoustic jazz and folk and only a small amount of bass driven music. After an abundance of rave reviews and one of the longest appreciation threads I've ever come across I simply couldn't believe what I was hearing. A thin and unrealistic presentation within the confines of a miniscule soundstage. Even their famed highs appeared somewhat squeaky to my ears. I still remember thinking, if that's what it takes to be a serious audiophile I'd rather take a pass.
Of course it is possible that my pair was defective, but posts like yours make me think they weren't.
I am still suggesting those who find RE0 too thin for their taste to get a pair of Comply TX400. IMO, you haven't really heard everything about RE0 before you try the TX400.
Quote:Ok can you guys please explain what you mean when you say that RE0 sounds thin? Because I don't really understand it. You can't mean that it is thin becuase it is slightly lacking bass, becuase mids can also sound full and I think they do on the RE0. I also don't feel that the bass on RE0 is so lacking that it can be called thin. Like I said, the mid and upper bass on RE0 are very close to neutral to my ears and sound quite full and enjoyable to me
The way I see it, fullness can represent two kind of things:
First, a bump in the lower mid or upper bass (the so called mid-bass bump). By increasing the amount of mid-bass, it adds warmth and fullness to the overall sound. However, adding too much mid-bass creates excessive thickness and make the sound muddy or even veil (basically the mid-bass frequency begins to overflow and interfere with upper mid to lower treble).
Second, on a wider sense, it is the balance of transient, decay and harmonics. A fast attack gives a sense of realism, a good decay give a sense of good structure / body and a good harmonics show off the texture and depth. Together they make up the timbre. For examples, when there are fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics, it gives a lean note. When there are fast transient, good decay but not enough harmonics, it gives a note with no texture. When there are slow transient with too much decay and harmonics, it becomes muddy. As I have somewhat mentioned on my original review, RE0 bass is the kind with fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics. It has the impact, but not the body.
Hope these make sense.
Quote:Ok can you guys please explain what you mean when you say that RE0 sounds thin? Because I don't really understand it. You can't mean that it is thin becuase it is slightly lacking bass, becuase mids can also sound full and I think they do on the RE0. I also don't feel that the bass on RE0 is so lacking that it can be called thin. Like I said, the mid and upper bass on RE0 are very close to neutral to my ears and sound quite full and enjoyable to me
The way I see it, fullness can represent two kind of things:
First, a bump in the lower mid or upper bass (the so called mid-bass bump). By increasing the amount of mid-bass, it adds warmth and fullness to the overall sound. However, adding too much mid-bass creates excessive thickness and make the sound muddy or even veil (basically the mid-bass frequency begins to overflow and interfere with upper mid to lower treble).
Second, on a wider sense, it is the balance of transient, decay and harmonics. A fast attack gives a sense of realism, a good decay give a sense of good structure / body and a good harmonics show off the texture and depth. Together they make up the timbre. For examples, when there are fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics, it gives a lean note. When there are fast transient, good decay but not enough harmonics, it gives a note with no texture. When there are slow transient with too much decay and harmonics, it becomes muddy. As I have somewhat mentioned on my original review, RE0 bass is the kind with fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics. It has the impact, but not the body.
Hope these make sense.
What RE0 does do extremely well that makes it stand out is tonal balance and separation.
I personally feel this is aspect of perceived detail and separation is a result of a seriously thin signature lacking body. I've referred to it as 'cheating' because the RE0 just doesn't sound natural to my ears. It reminds me more of a precision monitoring tool. Because of how my ears heard the RE0 it seemed like a 'cheat' to me though the treble extension is certainly laudable.
In regards to decay and harmonics, yes the RE0 does not have great micro detail, but I don't think this has anything to do with fullness. I've heard plenty of headphones that sound fuller than RE0 and yet lack the detail of RE0, like Roland RH300, ATH-M50, Denon AH-D1000, Super.fi 3. I've also heard 'phones that sound thinner than RE0, but have higher resolving power, like Q-jays and Ety ER4. I think the reason why many people refer to RE0 as thin is because they are used to overly warm sounding audio equipment with dominating bass and lower mids and rolled off trebles and think that that's how music is supposed to sound.
I disagree in 2 respects. First, that decay and harmonics are micro detail. If you are missing decay and harmonics you have bigger issues than missing micro detail. Two, I love both my MD and DBA02. Both are polar opposites on the color spectrum, among other things, yet both have better body and sound fuller than the RE0 to my ears. I don't consider the DBA to be warm or have domineering bass or lower mids w/ rolled treble.
Nicely stated ClieOS. Thickness or being thin is not a function quantity but quality. The RE0's are thin sounding they just do not get the "voice" right on some instruments. To my ears, for instance, they just do not get a cello right, a cello should sound like it is made from wood not cardboard (yes, I know, not all are made of wood) and they should not sound like a violin.
Quote:I am still suggesting those who find RE0 too thin for their taste to get a pair of Comply TX400. IMO, you haven't really heard everything about RE0 before you try the TX400.
Tips make that much of a difference? Is it because the RE0 is able sit deeper in the ear?