[mrbrad]

The bass boost from a $20 Fiio E5 does wonders. However, it is a pain to have to carry around a second piece of hardware.

 

[Pianist]

 
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Ok can you guys please explain what you mean when you say that RE0 sounds thin? Because I don't really understand it. You can't mean that it is thin becuase it is slightly lacking bass, becuase mids can also sound full and I think they do on the RE0. I also don't feel that the bass on RE0 is so lacking that it can be called thin. Like I said, the mid and upper bass on RE0 are very close to neutral to my ears and sound quite full and enjoyable to me

The way I see it, fullness can represent two kind of things:
 
First, a bump in the lower mid or upper bass (the so called mid-bass bump). By increasing the amount of mid-bass, it adds warmth and fullness to the overall sound. However, adding too much mid-bass creates excessive thickness and make the sound muddy or even veil (basically the mid-bass frequency begins to overflow and interfere with upper mid to lower treble).
 
Second, on a wider sense, it is the balance of transient, decay and harmonics. A fast attack gives a sense of realism, a good decay give a sense of good structure / body and a good harmonics show off the texture and depth. Together they make up the timbre. For examples, when there are fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics, it gives a lean note. When there are fast transient, good decay but not enough harmonics, it gives a note with no texture. When there are slow transient with too much decay and harmonics, it becomes muddy. As I have somewhat mentioned on my original review, RE0 bass is the kind with fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics. It has the impact, but not the body.
 
Hope these make sense.

 
Ok, I understand. So basically you are saying that because RE0 does not have any extra bumps in the lower mids or upper bass and has too much transients in relation to its decay and harmonics, that's why it sounds thin. I disagree. I don't think RE0 sounds all that fast to begin with - I think BA drivers are noticeably faster. RE0 just sounds like a solid dynamic IEM in regards to speed, but nothing special. What RE0 does do extremely well that makes it stand out is tonal balance and separation. In regards to decay and harmonics, yes the RE0 does not have great micro detail, but I don't think this has anything to do with fullness. I've heard plenty of headphones that sound fuller than RE0 and yet lack the detail of RE0, like Roland RH300, ATH-M50, Denon AH-D1000, Super.fi 3. I've also heard 'phones that sound thinner than RE0, but have higher resolving power, like Q-jays and Ety ER4. I think the reason why many people refer to RE0 as thin is because they are used to overly warm sounding audio equipment with dominating bass and lower mids and rolled off trebles and think that that's how music is supposed to sound. Of course switching to RE0 will make it sound thin in comparison. It may also be fit issues - any IEM can sound thin with a bad seal. Like I already mentioned before, RE0 can actually sound noticeably on the thick side with the stock, large dual flange tips to my ears, because I am getting a very tight seal with them - in fact, thicker than an e-Q7, SE530 and UM2 which are known to be warm and full sounding IEMs.

 

[ClieOS]

Actually I find RE0 to be quite fast as dynamic. Of course BA is generally faster than most dynamic, but I have heard slow BA as well, and it is IMO that RE0 can keep up with most BA in transient (which is what determine the speed). Though I don't disagree with your comments that many people are used to warm sounding headphone. But the argument goes both ways: people who like the sound of BA regard RE0 to be relatively thick, and people who like warm sound find RE0 on the thin side. My opinion is, there is nothing wrong on both views or how it is expressed, just the different in perspective. But technical wise, my opinion is that RE0 doesn't have the proper thickness (or more precisely, the body and texture) in the bass and lower mid region. Some call it thin, I call it a bass that lacks good body and texture, though I think we are still referring to the same thing, but with different words. It is still a good enough performance that meets my average standard, just not a particularly great bass.

 

[Pianist]

 
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Actually I find RE0 to be quite fast as dynamic. Of course BA is generally faster than most dynamic, but I have heard slow BA as well, and it is IMO that RE0 can keep up with most BA in transient (which is what determine the speed). Though I don't disagree with your comments that many people are used to warm sounding headphone. But the argument goes both ways: people who like the sound of BA regard RE0 to be relatively thick, and people who like warm sound find RE0 on the thin side. My opinion is, there is nothing wrong on both views or how it is expressed, just the different in perspective. But technical wise, my opinion is that RE0 doesn't have the proper thickness (or more precisely, the body and texture) in the bass and lower mid region. Some call it thin, I call it a bass that lacks good body and texture, though I think we are still referring to the same thing, but with different words. It is still a good enough performance that meets my average standard, just not a particularly great bass.

I find that with the stock large biflanges RE0 sounds very full and warm in the upper bass and lower mids region, although can see how RE0 can be considered lacking body with a neutral or cold source and shallow fitting single flange tips. When paired with a good quality, warm source and well sealing single flange tips, RE0 has fantastic mid and upper bass quality to me ears - right up there with top tier universals IMO and beating the ES3X customs for my tastes becuase I found ES3X lacking punch, whereas RE0 has plenty. The only area where RE0 does lack is the lowest sub bass and so RE0 is not very good for dance/trance/hip-hop types of music. But for mainstream pop, rock, metal, and most other genres, RE0 is excellent with no significant lack of bass to my ears. In fact for rock music, RE0 with the large biflanges is probably the best IEM I've heard. Now, I am aware that nowadays, most mainstream music is essentially dance music with a lot of sub bass content and RE0 is just not the right type of 'phone for this type of music. No offense, but I think RE0 was made for serious music genres with focus on melody and not massaging your ears with sub bass rumble.

 

[james444]

@savenger: I'm right there with you, I went through several weeks of an intense love-hate relationship with a borrowed pair of RE0s, hated them for their sound signature and loved them for being just a loaner
 
My listening consists of 50% classical, 30% acoustic jazz and folk and only a small amount of bass driven music. After an abundance of rave reviews and one of the longest appreciation threads I've ever come across I simply couldn't believe what I was hearing. A thin and unrealistic presentation within the confines of a miniscule soundstage. Even their famed highs appeared somewhat squeaky to my ears. I still remember thinking, if that's what it takes to be a serious audiophile I'd rather take a pass.
 
Of course it is possible that my pair was defective, but posts like yours make me think they weren't.

 

[Pianist]

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@savenger: I'm right there with you, I went through several weeks of an intense love-hate relationship with a borrowed pair of RE0s, hated them for their sound signature and loved them for being just a loaner
 
My listening consists of 50% classical, 30% acoustic jazz and folk and only a small amount of bass driven music. After an abundance of rave reviews and one of the longest appreciation threads I've ever come across I simply couldn't believe what I was hearing. A thin and unrealistic presentation within the confines of a miniscule soundstage. Even their famed highs appeared somewhat squeaky to my ears. I still remember thinking, if that's what it takes to be a serious audiophile I'd rather take a pass.
 
Of course it is possible that my pair was defective, but posts like yours make me think they weren't.

Hmm... really? I think the soundstage on RE0 is actually quite wide and open. I've heard plenty of more expensive IEMs and closed headphones that sound more closed in than RE0.

 

[ClieOS]

I am still suggesting those who find RE0 too thin for their taste to get a pair of Comply TX400. IMO, you haven't really heard everything about RE0 before you try the TX400.

 

[ProjectDenz]

You can easily widen the soundstage of many iems using your Rockboxed Clip. When I had my RE0s I widened the soundstage when listening to classical music, worked a treat.

 

[mythless]

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I am still suggesting those who find RE0 too thin for their taste to get a pair of Comply TX400. IMO, you haven't really heard everything about RE0 before you try the TX400.

Tips make that much of a difference?  Is it because the RE0 is able sit deeper in the ear?

 

[Anaxilus]

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Ok can you guys please explain what you mean when you say that RE0 sounds thin? Because I don't really understand it. You can't mean that it is thin becuase it is slightly lacking bass, becuase mids can also sound full and I think they do on the RE0. I also don't feel that the bass on RE0 is so lacking that it can be called thin. Like I said, the mid and upper bass on RE0 are very close to neutral to my ears and sound quite full and enjoyable to me

The way I see it, fullness can represent two kind of things:
 
First, a bump in the lower mid or upper bass (the so called mid-bass bump). By increasing the amount of mid-bass, it adds warmth and fullness to the overall sound. However, adding too much mid-bass creates excessive thickness and make the sound muddy or even veil (basically the mid-bass frequency begins to overflow and interfere with upper mid to lower treble).
 
Second, on a wider sense, it is the balance of transient, decay and harmonics. A fast attack gives a sense of realism, a good decay give a sense of good structure / body and a good harmonics show off the texture and depth. Together they make up the timbre. For examples, when there are fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics, it gives a lean note. When there are fast transient, good decay but not enough harmonics, it gives a note with no texture. When there are slow transient with too much decay and harmonics, it becomes muddy. As I have somewhat mentioned on my original review, RE0 bass is the kind with fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics. It has the impact, but not the body.
 
Hope these make sense.

 
Very well said ClieOS.  I'm down w/ #2 the way my ears and head interpret things.  I guess because the body of a note incorporates so many aspects that explains why I've always been sort of a Fascist w/ respect to it.  It's one of the most important things I notice straight away.  I never really consciously broke down the component parts analytically but that's one of the most important aspects to how my ears hear a 'natural' and 'accurate' sound by my definitions.  

 

[arcticears]

 
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Ok can you guys please explain what you mean when you say that RE0 sounds thin? Because I don't really understand it. You can't mean that it is thin becuase it is slightly lacking bass, becuase mids can also sound full and I think they do on the RE0. I also don't feel that the bass on RE0 is so lacking that it can be called thin. Like I said, the mid and upper bass on RE0 are very close to neutral to my ears and sound quite full and enjoyable to me

The way I see it, fullness can represent two kind of things:
 
First, a bump in the lower mid or upper bass (the so called mid-bass bump). By increasing the amount of mid-bass, it adds warmth and fullness to the overall sound. However, adding too much mid-bass creates excessive thickness and make the sound muddy or even veil (basically the mid-bass frequency begins to overflow and interfere with upper mid to lower treble).
 
Second, on a wider sense, it is the balance of transient, decay and harmonics. A fast attack gives a sense of realism, a good decay give a sense of good structure / body and a good harmonics show off the texture and depth. Together they make up the timbre. For examples, when there are fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics, it gives a lean note. When there are fast transient, good decay but not enough harmonics, it gives a note with no texture. When there are slow transient with too much decay and harmonics, it becomes muddy. As I have somewhat mentioned on my original review, RE0 bass is the kind with fast transient but not enough decay and harmonics. It has the impact, but not the body.
 
Hope these make sense.

Nicely stated ClieOS.  Thickness or being thin is not a function quantity but quality.  The RE0's are thin sounding they just do not get the "voice" right on some instruments.  To my ears, for instance, they just do not get a cello right, a cello should sound like it is made from wood not cardboard (yes, I know, not all are made of wood) and they should not sound like a violin.
 

 

[Anaxilus]

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What RE0 does do extremely well that makes it stand out is tonal balance and separation.
 
I personally feel this is aspect of perceived detail and separation is a result of a seriously thin signature lacking body.  I've referred to it as 'cheating'  because the RE0 just doesn't sound natural to my ears.  It reminds me more of a precision monitoring tool.  Because of how my ears heard the RE0 it seemed like a 'cheat' to me though the treble extension is certainly laudable.  
 
In regards to decay and harmonics, yes the RE0 does not have great micro detail, but I don't think this has anything to do with fullness. I've heard plenty of headphones that sound fuller than RE0 and yet lack the detail of RE0, like Roland RH300, ATH-M50, Denon AH-D1000, Super.fi 3. I've also heard 'phones that sound thinner than RE0, but have higher resolving power, like Q-jays and Ety ER4. I think the reason why many people refer to RE0 as thin is because they are used to overly warm sounding audio equipment with dominating bass and lower mids and rolled off trebles and think that that's how music is supposed to sound.
 
I disagree in 2 respects.  First, that decay and harmonics are micro detail.  If you are missing decay and harmonics you have bigger issues than missing micro detail.  Two, I love both my MD and DBA02.  Both are polar opposites on the color spectrum, among other things, yet both have better body and sound fuller than the RE0 to my ears.  I don't consider the DBA to be warm or have domineering bass or lower mids w/ rolled treble.
   

 

[Anaxilus]

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Nicely stated ClieOS.  Thickness or being thin is not a function quantity but quality.  The RE0's are thin sounding they just do not get the "voice" right on some instruments.  To my ears, for instance, they just do not get a cello right, a cello should sound like it is made from wood not cardboard (yes, I know, not all are made of wood) and they should not sound like a violin.
 

Bingo.  That's what I mean when something sounds 2D versus 3D to me.  I also know that 'violin' sound.  Drives me crazy in many orchestral recordings w/ lazy or poor micing when violins just sound thin and lifeless.  

 

[ClieOS]

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I am still suggesting those who find RE0 too thin for their taste to get a pair of Comply TX400. IMO, you haven't really heard everything about RE0 before you try the TX400.

Tips make that much of a difference?  Is it because the RE0 is able sit deeper in the ear?

No, not because it sits deeper in the ear canal, but everything to do with altering the acoustic impedance of the IEM. Many hate Comply because they think it muddy up the sound. More precisely, it (as all foam tips do) increases the acoustic impedance of the IEM and shifts more energy from transient to decay and harmonics which allows the body of a note to build up more easily. Of course the reason why people hate it is mainly on the fact that it slows the leading edge down and therefore each note is getting less defined (= muddy up). But on a relatively fast and lean IEM, the increase on acoustic impedance actually provides a positive effect. A few good examples I have experienced with will be RE0 with TX400, Phiaton PS210 with T400 and Etymotic ER4 / MC5 with Shure olive. In the case of RE0, the effect is especially noticeable with the TX400 because TX series has a build in filter that add more acoustic impedance to the mix but doesn't take away too much of RE0's strength in speed. They are rather in good balanced IMO. It is kind of similar to how Phonak does to the PFE with different filters (grey filter has less rated acoustic impedance than black filter, and black filter has less rated acoustic impedance than the Perfect Bass green filter). By increasing the acoustic impedance, you smooth out more and more of the treble and allows the bass to build up. It is a trade off no doubt, but getting the right balance to fit a person's taste is what important here.
 

 

[mythless]

I will have to try that out.  I would never think about tips in that way, mostly in comfort.  But, I will swap out the comply on my RE252 to the RE0 and hear them for myself.