[aaf evo]

Sounds to me that you should be one of the customers for the first batch of UM FS.

To me the Mason FS is actually built worse than the Traillii , the shell didn’t feel anywhere near as thick or sturdy. Plus, if he is liking Thum or Sultan… the Mason for his bass needs it just won’t cut it.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Tuning alone isn't a lasting factor unfortunately. More and more mass production will make "tuning" not a valid only point. Check Blon. How can they do that sound that cheap? Because materials is very cheap, and when you mass produce you're going to run across odds that you hit on a really good tuning. A spray and pray will still return a result eventually especially when more & more robotics remove human factor and automatic tuning processes can be output much quicker.

In no way do i see "artisan" in the Oriolus. I see the opposite, i see tuning only, if it was artisan then the shell, the tuning, the cable, the packaging, the customer support, etc. All of these have to be unique and particular for it to be artisan. That's why you go to an artisan, because they create "art" which isn't replicatable by others because it's the art that person/brand puts out that makes them distinct.

But even that isn't vastly important to me, what's most important is just durability, and i do not agree with any of the high prices IEMs being acrylic or resin or plastic. It just shouldn't be, if other companies can factor in a hardshell into their pricing, then how can you not? Why would you not? It's an extra budget saver but then you charge $6k, so there's not much of an excuse. There's room for a durable shell. And those who don't care about the shell, fine, but i say your resin will crack over time just purely with age. And you paid $6k for a product that has a short lifespan. Even beyond just age cracking, you have to always be super careful and mindful and limit their use - this means you're paying a high price for a product that has limited viability and use, it's "portability" is limited to very enclosed & protective environments. So you bought less available use, for a higher price. Sure maybe you baby gear and don't care about using it more then sitting at home, but i say products should just be built to last, especially if you charge high end pricing. Durability is honorable, caring about the lifespan of your product and that your customers will be able to use your product without fault for a long lifespan. We as westerners have lost the care for durability for cheapness, but now we pay artisan prices for low end durability too. Which is interesting.

Maybe you do baby your gear, but would it be great if you could feel more comfortable that your $6k investment was protected? I think you're arguing from the wrong perspective, for the price you paid you can certainly have durability included, so instead of saying you're fine without it, which means you'll never get it, you should want it as a customer. Why not feel better knowing your gear will last and you don't have to be crazy protective. Also - to me - IEMs are MEANT for portability. Staying at home, isolated, barely moving about or using them - doesn't sound very portable to me.

Everyone has their choice criteria. I wasn't worried about the materials at all. I was worried about the sound quality and whether or not it would be worth the $5000+ I paid for it. I can say without a doubt that for me, it is. It will last for as long as it lasts. I don't wear it outside as I have several alternatives for that use case and I put them into a Campfire audio mesh bag as soon they come off my ears. They are well protected. to reduce the Traillii down to its tuning is a dramatic oversimplification of what that product is and sounds like. If it were just tuning, then everyone would do it. They don't. I have a BLON 03. To compare the Traillii to the BLON 03 is like comparing Professional Football to Pee Wee football. The only thing they have in common is that you can listen to music with them. Perhaps you should hear something before judging it.

 

[RTodd]

Tuning alone isn't a lasting factor unfortunately. More and more mass production will make "tuning" not a valid only point. Check Blon. How can they do that sound that cheap? Because materials is very cheap, and when you mass produce you're going to run across odds that you hit on a really good tuning. A spray and pray will still return a result eventually especially when more & more robotics remove human factor and automatic tuning processes can be output much quicker.

In no way do i see "artisan" in the Oriolus. I see the opposite, i see tuning only, if it was artisan then the shell, the tuning, the cable, the packaging, the customer support, etc. All of these have to be unique and particular for it to be artisan. That's why you go to an artisan, because they create "art" which isn't replicatable by others because it's the art that person/brand puts out that makes them distinct.

But even that isn't vastly important to me, what's most important is just durability, and i do not agree with any of the high prices IEMs being acrylic or resin or plastic. It just shouldn't be, if other companies can factor in a hardshell into their pricing, then how can you not? Why would you not? It's an extra budget saver but then you charge $6k, so there's not much of an excuse. There's room for a durable shell. And those who don't care about the shell, fine, but i say your resin will crack over time just purely with age. And you paid $6k for a product that has a short lifespan. Even beyond just age cracking, you have to always be super careful and mindful and limit their use - this means you're paying a high price for a product that has limited viability and use, it's "portability" is limited to very enclosed & protective environments. So you bought less available use, for a higher price. Sure maybe you baby gear and don't care about using it more then sitting at home, but i say products should just be built to last, especially if you charge high end pricing. Durability is honorable, caring about the lifespan of your product and that your customers will be able to use your product without fault for a long lifespan. We as westerners have lost the care for durability for cheapness, but now we pay artisan prices for low end durability too. Which is interesting.

Maybe you do baby your gear, but would it be great if you could feel more comfortable that your $6k investment was protected? I think you're arguing from the wrong perspective, for the price you paid you can certainly have durability included, so instead of saying you're fine without it, which means you'll never get it, you should want it as a customer. Why not feel better knowing your gear will last and you don't have to be crazy protective. Also - to me - IEMs are MEANT for portability. Staying at home, isolated, barely moving about or using them - doesn't sound very portable to me.

Hey no argument here.

I am an artist and I work with many materials including resin. I can confirm it is expensive, not easy to work with, you need a high level of skill, and attention to detail. It is a process that involves many steps, including making molds, using a vacuum chamber, and afterwards machining.

By my definition of Artisan that process checks all the boxes.

 

[Liberatus]

Interesting perspective. My Traillii comes with me places, so it's used in a portable fashion without issue.

I'd like to look into photopolymer and how it ages in more detail. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, have any sources of information on this?

Oh it's a longstanding issue with acrylic shell IEMs. I mean drop protection is minimal, but beyond that the aging, yellowing etc you can read through these forms and many others, I've read and encountered the issue myself many times. This has been an ongoing issue since beginning days.

Look i understand to those that are happy with their purchase, and it fits your use That's perfectly fine, we all have different needs and use cases. All i say, is instead of arguing from a defensive standpoint, or a less is acceptable, why not be more of a consumer and want for more for your money? The more consumers accept what they're given rather then expecting quality, guarantees, more for their money, etc the more you fall into the trap of accepting what you're given because the company sees consumers will just buy it and accept what they're given, so why put more work into it? They will continue to produce minimum viable products and sell them at ever increasing premiums. This is the ongoing trend in many branches of consumerism. All i can say is yor gear wouldn't make it into a good studio if it doesn't hold up to use, no matter the sound. There's plenty of gear that sounds amazing and versutility in use, performance, durability are important. There's gear over 50 years old in studios still used to this day. Audio hasn't made huge leaps in improvement. Actually, most studios and pros want the old gear because it sounds better, more organic, lasts longer, less digital, etc.

Why do we covet a 60's guitar and pay thousands for it? Why are the newest guitars almost no change for 30+ years. Minor useless tweaks and hold no value? They don't "sound" any better. Infact, often less desirable.

 

[Liberatus]

Everyone has their choice criteria. I wasn't worried about the materials at all. I was worried about the sound quality and whether or not it would be worth the $5000+ I paid for it. I can say without a doubt that for me, it is. It will last for as long as it lasts. I don't wear it outside as I have several alternatives for that use case and I put them into a Campfire audio mesh bag as soon they come off my ears. They are well protected. to reduce the Traillii down to its tuning is a dramatic oversimplification of what that product is and sounds like. If it were just tuning, then everyone would do it. They don't. I have a BLON 03. To compare the Traillii to the BLON 03 is like comparing Professional Football to Pee Wee football. The only thing they have in common is that you can listen to music with them. Perhaps you should hear something before judging it.

Im not comparing to the Trailli, i was saying that when tuning is your only selling point, your at high risk of replication and replacement. The Blon is just a example of how mass production can hit on any tuning there is if it's using the same parts you do. None of that is proprietary.
This is why branding, artistry, mass marketing, unique packaging, etc is included in many businesses, if they don't have a standout factor or proprietary tech then they will be replicated and replaced. Their longevity isn't there.

And i don't need to hear it before i judge it. I don't believe it matches my concerns, i have heard vastly better gear them any headphone can every reproduce, i look for the best for each are of need. I have a home speaker setup that does a fantastic job for when I'm immobile, when I'm mobile, i want durability, portability, ease of use, less mind concern about protecting it. Thus, IEM is my way. I also won't get desktop gear for this reason, if I'm immobile, I'll use speakers not headphones. Much better.

Again, I think the point is being missed. I'm not criticizing anyone's purchase, I'm criticizing the mindset that wants to defend what they have rather then start to expect more for their money. This trends downard for consumers yet we always fight to validate what we have rather then saying hey, yeah this should be included at this price point. If you don't do this, price trend up, value trends down.

 

[aaf evo]

I mean I don’t disagree. There’s nothing nicer than touching an IEM like the Erlkonig that legit feels like a piece of jewelry especially when you’re paying a premium price on. There’s trade offs though. Erlkonig is heavy with its silver shells which for some people can lead to discomfort after time , Thummim is cool looking and has a great build which isn’t exactly the most ergo friendly. I do feel the Sultan has a great balance between a premium build and great fit though.

 

[bluestorm1992]

Look forward to some companies to copy Traillii’s tuning, mass produce it, and destroy its value. The engineers of EE, 64 Audio, UM, here’s your chance to earn a huge bonus!

Wait, do I also have an order of it too?

 

[aaf evo]

Look forward to some companies to copy Traillii’s tuning, mass produce it, and destroy its value.

Wait, do I also have an order of it too?

could you imagine

 

[bluestorm1992]

could you imagine

Those engineers must be either incompetent or too lazy to do this. I believe Oriolus have not (could not) file patent for how Traillii’s made. These other companies are missing tens of thousands of dollars in profit.

 

[Mehran]

I haven't heard the bird ,but I seriously doubt it has better mids and bass than my Semper, better treble sure, and a bit wider stage I can imagine. Other than that Semper continues to surprise me , it beats LX for bass and Elysium for mids. With all my purchases after it I still go back to it for its insane musicality.

 

[Deezel177]

Interesting perspective. My Traillii comes with me places, so it's used in a portable fashion without issue.

I'd like to look into photopolymer and how it ages in more detail. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, have any sources of information on this?

I have resin-shelled IEMs that are 7 years old and still hold up perfectly fine, so I think cracking "simply because of age" would be an exaggeration. But, I think all of this really boils down to a matter of perspective. I agree with @Liberatus's points that it's healthy for the market to want more and demand more for your money. It's why I tend to be fairly harsh on brands for their packaging and build quality - their higher-end offerings, especially - if it isn't up to snuff. The last thing I'd want is for companies to feel comfortable compromising and giving consumers the bare minimum. But, at the same time, there's your perspective where maybe the consumer doesn't want those extra bells-and-whistles.

Personally, what's most important to me is that we all enjoy the purchases we make and feel happy about them, but I think that can (and should) be done without letting their shortcomings slide. It wasn't too long ago that I basically yelled at Eletech to better the packaging for their Iliad (which 100% of its buyers, to my knowledge, had no issues with), and they did just that with their new Aeneid. So, I think it's good for the consumer to be vocal and not just defend the brands' decisions all the time. Critique can range from valid to unrealistic, and so can credit. Most of the brands I've talked to even welcome it, so they know where to improve. On the other hand, though, it's also dependent on what the consumer values and cares about. So, it's still very much subjective at the end of the day. But, I do feel it's important to have that balance; hover around it, at least.

Hey no argument here.

I am an artist and I work with many materials including resin. I can confirm it is expensive, not easy to work with, you need a high level of skill, and attention to detail. It is a process that involves many steps, including making molds, using a vacuum chamber, and afterwards machining.

By my definition of Artisan that process checks all the boxes.

The thing about the processes you described, though, is that every reputable IEM brand can pretty much do that. Of course, there are varying degrees of quality, but being able to make resin shells is pretty much a given in this industry; the bare minimum I'm describing above. What @Liberatus is talking about with his definition of artisan is going above-and-beyond what everyone else can do, because you're also charging above-and-beyond what everyone else is. The common consensus is that the Trailli is the best-sounding IEM on the market, so it ticks that box there. It ticks the cable box too with the 4-wire 1960s. But, again, just like it is when handing out critique, I think it's important to be realistic when giving credit as well.

 

[ian91]

But, at the same time, there's your perspective where maybe the consumer doesn't want those extra bells-and-whistles.

I would happily take extra bells-and-whistles (e.g. a fancy, all-metal shell) provided it was ergonomic and lightweight. I am happy and I enjoy the product as it stands, that was the only point I was trying to make. Could it be improved? Yes. Is it worth the money? Debatable.

 

[mashuto]

I mean I don’t disagree. There’s nothing nicer than touching an IEM like the Erlkonig that legit feels like a piece of jewelry especially when you’re paying a premium price on. There’s trade offs though. Erlkonig is heavy with its silver shells which for some people can lead to discomfort after time , Thummim is cool looking and has a great build which isn’t exactly the most ergo friendly. I do feel the Sultan has a great balance between a premium build and great fit though.

Noble is an interesting almost opposite case. I haven't heard any of their higher end stuff, so I can't really say how it compares sound wise.

But the focus there seems mostly on the artisanal aspects. They really do make some gorgeous iems... And one recently that has taken the crown for most expensive (and ugly in my opinion).

Interesting too that there isnt the same kind of discussion there surrounding the pricing of their products. Noble prestige iems are very expensive, but I guess at least there you can literally see where your money is going to with those.

 

[bluestorm1992]

Noble is an interesting almost opposite case. I haven't heard any of their higher end stuff, so I can't really say how it compares sound wise.

But the focus there seems mostly on the artisanal aspects. They really do make some gorgeous iems... And one recently that has taken the crown for most expensive (and ugly in my opinion).

Interesting too that there isnt the same kind of discussion there surrounding the pricing of their products. Noble prestige iems are very expensive, but I guess at least there you can literally see where your money is going to with those.

I have a hard time selling my Sultan, until I make a large enough discount ($1000 off MSRP, 1/3 off). You only need to discount a similar amount to sell Traillii in used market (which is then 1/6 off). Imagine that.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Im not comparing to the Trailli, i was saying that when tuning is your only selling point, your at high risk of replication and replacement. The Blon is just a example of how mass production can hit on any tuning there is if it's using the same parts you do. None of that is proprietary.
This is why branding, artistry, mass marketing, unique packaging, etc is included in many businesses, if they don't have a standout factor or proprietary tech then they will be replicated and replaced. Their longevity isn't there.

And i don't need to hear it before i judge it. I don't believe it matches my concerns, i have heard vastly better gear them any headphone can every reproduce, i look for the best for each are of need. I have a home speaker setup that does a fantastic job for when I'm immobile, when I'm mobile, i want durability, portability, ease of use, less mind concern about protecting it. Thus, IEM is my way. I also won't get desktop gear for this reason, if I'm immobile, I'll use speakers not headphones. Much better.

Again, I think the point is being missed. I'm not criticizing anyone's purchase, I'm criticizing the mindset that wants to defend what they have rather then start to expect more for their money. This trends downard for consumers yet we always fight to validate what we have rather then saying hey, yeah this should be included at this price point. If you don't do this, price trend up, value trends down.

that's not how the free market works. The way it works is competitors make products and people vote with their dollars and those with the best overall product, marketing and execution plans win. They make the most profit and get to continue making products. Those who don't create products that appeal to a sufficiently large market to fund their continue operations stop. We win by voting with our dollars which are the best products. Those that are over priced for what they deliver don't get purchased over time. The problem is not your concept that we should demand better products, we all do that by making decisions on which products to buy. The problem is that you think your definition of what is better is what everyone else should believe as well. We will see if you are successful in your campaign. So far, it's not moving the needle as I don't think anybody is making the buy vs no buy decision based on what you've posted.