RAZ's TOTL review and rambles thread... could it be.... alive?

[CL14715]

Be honest with you, your reviews from Nio, Hero, to Odin remind me some kind of BS or bias. It call personal reference and it might not be for everyone. You insult someone review on their own teritory.

Remind you of BS or is BS? Cause everything I’ve said about them is true aside from a few playful exaggerations that were obvious. If it’s called personal preference why are you calling my reviews BS or bias then? Holy contradictamoly.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Remind you of BS or is BS? Cause everything I’ve said about them is true aside from a few playful exaggerations that were obvious. If it’s called personal preference why are you calling my reviews BS or bias then? Holy contradictamoly.

Honestly you’re quite unbearable. You’re on the ignore list of 6 people I know and I’m doing the same now, please go harass some other thread

 

[CANiSLAYu]

Honestly you’re quite unbearable. You’re on the ignore list of 6 people I know and I’m doing the same now, please go harass some other thread

I’m one of them. Argumentative and claims anyone who has an opinion different than his is an idiot and adds nothing of value to any discussion. Sounds a lot like our sitting President in the US.

 

[CL14715]

Honestly you’re quite unbearable. You’re on the ignore list of 6 people I know and I’m doing the same now, please go harass some other thread

My life is now irrevocably damaged. I was responding to a post in which I was quoted by one of your minions.

 

[CL14715]

I’m one of them. Argumentative and claims anyone who has an opinion different than his is an idiot and adds nothing of value to any discussion. Sounds a lot like our sitting President in the US.

You’re on the ignore list also?

 

[CANiSLAYu]

Pointing to the cable as the reason why you are going to go from disliking to liking a headphone is dubious at best. Cables are not like those teen movies where the nerdy girl takes off her glasses and lets her hair down and all of a sudden she’s a supermodel. If you love ODIN, more power to you. That’s awesome that you’re happy with your purchase. If one person doesn’t like it, how does that diminish your enjoyment? Absolutely zero. What good is trying to bash someone, or their testing methodology, or what kind of music they listened to, etc.?

The other thing that’s funny about the whole thing is one man tuned ODIN, Dean Vang. ODIN is what he likes and who is to say that is going to be agreeable for the entire population of humankind? I missed the memo where Dean was the authority on human hearing and sound reproduction. There’s going to be people who don’t like it and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that or those who don’t like it. That’s the whole point of this hobby; to find what resonates with you best. If it was that easy, there would only need to be one headphone for everyone.

Also by that logic, he tuned it with a Chord Hugo 2 and Final Audio E series tips. So you better not listen to ODIN with anything else, lest you not hear it like Auditor Supreme intended.

 

[CL14715]

1.) I was pointing out a flaw in his methodology being that he made it outwardly known he was returning the unit because of a frequency response issue. This issue then was brought up to have been replicated by another reviewer, who advised a level of correction was offered by the standard cable.

2.) I do like the Odin and I have no qualms about anyone disliking it. If you paid attention, I was condemned for praising it because it would "do damage to the sales". Then that same brainchild does a half-assed test and declares that it has a mid-range forwardness issue. I wonder what kinda damage that could do....

3.) No one said Dean Vang tuned it for the entire world to love. I do however trust that he knows what he's doing as the Founder of a globally successful in-ear monitor company.

ALL of this nonsense is the by-product of me expressing my OPINION about the Odin. If his opinion of not liking it is fine, then so is mine for liking it. Only thing is, you didn't speak up then. I wonder why.

 

[gLer]

Just an honest question here for those in the know: is it typical for an IEM to be specifically tuned with one type of eartip, cable and source, or are multiple variations taken into account when tuning?

I get that eartips, cable and sources have less of an impact in the sound than the IEM itself, but since most IEMs (even professional multi-kilobuck IEMs) ship with a janky cable that's invariably going to be replaced, and an assortment of different tips, from silicone to foam, surely the tuning needs to take all these variables into account?

Imagine buying a super luxury car and being told you should really only use one type of fuel and one set of tyres, else it won't perform as intended.

And this is the audiophile community, where anything that can be replaced or modded will invariably be replaced or modded.

Honest question guys.

 

[CL14715]

Just an honest question here for those in the know: is it typical for an IEM to be specifically tuned with one type of eartip, cable and source, or are multiple variations taken into account when tuning?

I get that eartips, cable and sources have less of an impact in the sound than the IEM itself, but since most IEMs (even professional multi-kilobuck IEMs) ship with a janky cable that's invariably going to be replaced, and an assortment of different tips, from silicone to foam, surely the tuning needs to take all these variables into account?

Imagine buying a super luxury car and being told you should really only use one type of fuel and one set of tyres, else it won't perform as intended.

And this is the audiophile community, where anything that can be replaced or modded will invariably be replaced or modded.

Honest question guys.

Fair question and I think it could go several different ways.

Some offerings may be tuned specifically as is, as a specialized presentation. Some headphones are sold with specific pads otherwise the tuning changes drastically and not in a good way. Sennheiser is known for this on some of their models. Can a proper solution be found? Of course but it may take a serious effort of trial and error.

In regards to the supercar reference, there are many vehicles of that caliber that require a certain level of what you mentioned or there will be catastrophic failures. You know these things getting into it though. A lot of supercars are tuned to a point of refinement to eliminate needing to be altered by often times less experienced folks than the manufacturer. Then there are cars that are basically made to be altered, like the new Toyota Supra for example. That vehicle was created with the intention of tuners in mind. The same cant be said for a Bugatti Chiron.

 

[crinacle]

When someone writes a negative review with the stock cables and tips: you should've covered all bases! Why didn't you use x cable and y tips?

When someone writes a negative review with a different cable and third-party tips: you should've reviewed it as they were tuned, with stock cables and tips!

 

[CL14715]

When someone writes a negative review with the stock cables and tips: you should've covered all bases! Why didn't you use x cable and y tips?

When someone writes a negative review with a different cable and third-party tips: you should've reviewed it as they were tuned, with stock cables and tips!

True, but why not do it all to avoid either scenario? Also, things like that need to be stated so the reader knows the conditions of how the results were formed.

That's why @twister6 is such a great, trustworthy reviewer. The dude puts in the work, tests under a myriad of configurations, and is transparent about it.

 

[crinacle]

True, but why not do it all to avoid either scenario? Also, things like that need to be stated so the reader knows the conditions of how the results were formed.

Reviewing the product in stock form is probably the ideal scenario IMO (and what I personally practice), though reviewing cable/tip synergy is a bit of slippery slope given that there are so many options out there for a practically-infinite number of combinations, so at some point people will start nitpicking and asking why didn't you do this or that. In my opinion it's better to put one's foot down and let the readers themselves do the rolling; after all, that's the fun part of the journey for most audiophiles.

That, and also once you've found the "ideal combination" (at least, within the confines of your currently available tips and cables), the dangerous assumption that your readers have the same cable and tips. Or worse, in the event that said readers don't have them, the expectation that they would go out and buy them on your word.

But to clarify, neither approach is wrong. Just explaining my own mentality on why I review stock and avoid rolling.

 

[CL14715]

Reviewing the product in stock form is probably the ideal scenario IMO (and what I personally practice), though reviewing cable/tip synergy is a bit of slippery slope given that there are so many options out there for a practically-infinite number of combinations, so at some point people will start nitpicking and asking why didn't you do this or that. In my opinion it's better to put one's foot down and let the readers themselves do the rolling; after all, that's the fun part of the journey for most audiophiles.

That, and also once you've found the "ideal combination" (at least, within the confines of your currently available tips and cables), the dangerous assumption that your readers have the same cable and tips. Or worse, in the event that said readers don't have them, the expectation that they would go out and buy them on your word.

But to clarify, neither approach is wrong. Just explaining my own mentality on why I review stock and avoid rolling.

Could not have said it any better myself.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Pointing to the cable as the reason why you are going to go from disliking to liking a headphone is dubious at best. Cables are not like those teen movies where the nerdy girl takes off her glasses and lets her hair down and all of a sudden she’s a supermodel. If you love ODIN, more power to you. That’s awesome that you’re happy with your purchase. If one person doesn’t like it, how does that diminish your enjoyment? Absolutely zero. What good is trying to bash someone, or their testing methodology, or what kind of music they listened to, etc.?

The other thing that’s funny about the whole thing is one man tuned ODIN, Dean Vang. ODIN is what he likes and who is to say that is going to be agreeable for the entire population of humankind? I missed the memo where Dean was the authority on human hearing and sound reproduction. There’s going to be people who don’t like it and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that or those who don’t like it. That’s the whole point of this hobby; to find what resonates with you best. If it was that easy, there would only need to be one headphone for everyone.

Also by that logic, he tuned it with a Chord Hugo 2 and Final Audio E series tips. So you better not listen to ODIN with anything else, lest you not hear it like Auditor Supreme intended.

I think the Odin built itself up in people’s eyes to the point where they expected it to be the perfect IEM, finally created. That's the kind of unhealthy hype that I was discussing earlier, as it's simply a standard that no IEM can live up to.

Just an honest question here for those in the know: is it typical for an IEM to be specifically tuned with one type of eartip, cable and source, or are multiple variations taken into account when tuning?

I get that eartips, cable and sources have less of an impact in the sound than the IEM itself, but since most IEMs (even professional multi-kilobuck IEMs) ship with a janky cable that's invariably going to be replaced, and an assortment of different tips, from silicone to foam, surely the tuning needs to take all these variables into account?

Imagine buying a super luxury car and being told you should really only use one type of fuel and one set of tyres, else it won't perform as intended.

And this is the audiophile community, where anything that can be replaced or modded will invariably be replaced or modded.

Honest question guys.

This is an interesting discussion in of itself. I'd say that any good product should be versatile enough to sound well off multiple sources, cable, tips and whatnot - otherwise one of these components becomes a "band aid" in a sense, correcting what is simply a flaw of the product. I'd say it makes much more sense to simply correct that flaw out of the box and allow customers to use the product as they desire. I do understand the other approach as well, but it's not one I'd take if I were to build an IEM

When someone writes a negative review with the stock cables and tips: you should've covered all bases! Why didn't you use x cable and y tips?

When someone writes a negative review with a different cable and third-party tips: you should've reviewed it as they were tuned, with stock cables and tips!

Nobody will ever be happy lol, t'is the nature of the internet. I agree with your stock configuration methodology, but I'd say that a cable alone generally can't make or break an IEM, and if it does, that simply goes back to my original point about the cable being what is essentially a band aid for a serious issue in the design of the IEM. I have spent ridiculous amount of money on cables so this might come across as hypocritical, but I genuinely don't believe that they make an especially serious difference, I mostly buy them cause they're pretty.

 

[doctorjuggles]

Designing an IEM that only works with one very specific cable or it creates tonality and frequency issues means you've screwed up your IEM design. Now I haven't heard the Odin and I'm NOT saying that's happened in this instance, but the only way a cable and IEM combo can make a difference so wide as to change the response is if something is either wrong, or it's been designed to have that effect, which is why I won't touch Naim equipment for example. It's bad design or it's deliberately deceitful. Either way, I wouldn't buy or recommend a product like that.

Again, before anybody has a full coronary, I make no comment on the Odin itself, nor am I suggesting EE would do this. I shouldn't have to repeat this, but here we are.