[up late]

Not to me.

suggest you take a look at his profile then

 

[MacedonianHero]

suggest you take a look at his profile then

 
I did. 

 

[up late]

hmm

 

[MacedonianHero]

 
[edit: Really? You're going to commit the logical fallacy of poison pot (referring to the O2 to cut down my argument)?]

No I am not looking for the Science section. I am directly responding to your misleading post. I am responding to your assumption that I don't own the PS1000, that I own an O2, and that the PS1000 needs high-end gear or expensive gear to sound perfect. Again, there are myriad high end offerings that actually are unable to break the 16-bit barrier in terms of dynamic range, of current to voltage ratio, to noise levels, and on and on. 

Price has almost nothing to do with it. The making of amps and DACs is a purely mathematical operation. If you are aiming for more distortion, you adjust your part list to include parts that meet that mathematical need. As an engineer, I expect you are aware of this. 

There are cheap amps/DACs that perform admirably and which can't be outdone by more expensive ones. There are wonderful high-end amps/DACs that are made beautifully and are wonders to use, but whose performance is a shambles. There are high end amps/DACs that perform admirably. Price has almost no bearing on how well a headphone is driven. 

 
 
Let's review what I said and avoid everything you posted that I said that I didn't:
 
"using the same entry level amp/source etc for them (PS1000) is not ideal."
 
Then
 
"Can entry level gear make the PS1000s/SR80s sound good...sure...does it sound better on better gear...yes, and that's where the differences between these headphones become more apparent. But entry gear won't "perfectly" get the most out them, no matter what you say or how you say it (and I'm referring to amp/dac/source)."
 
There is nothing misleading here whatsoever. Are you just now figuring out that sharing experiences is what Head-Fi is about? No one is saying anything about objective truths here. Music is a personal experiences and preferences. So if someone prefers something, then guess what? It is better (for them). Jumping over them for that and then saying "unless you prove it within 5 sigma or you can't state a thing" is simply ridiculous and would make Head-Fi a ghost town.
 
Never did I say that the PS1000s sound "bad" with entry level gear, but it's not ideal based on my experiences. You can disagree, that's fine, but you are not the keeper of what is right and wrong and your attitude here is the problem. You may think your Icon Mobile Icon or iBasso D4 (which I used to own) can drive any headphone to their fullest. I would definitely disagree with you, but never attack you personally. You definitely have come off as a O2 disciple with your comments and I don't see said headphones listed in your profile (and if you are too lazy to update it, then that's on you) and no I am NOT psychic!!!! 

 
I've written many reviews of outstanding low priced gear that beats much higher priced options and have noted as such. But you are reading in your own thoughts here into my comments...which simply were never made.

 

[joseph69]

 
And I'm saying: no matter WHAT or how you hear, it is hardly indicative of performance. There are certain incontrovertible things: hiss from the output, IMD sizzle at certain voltage levels, and if bad enough, current drop outs when playing back some frequencies, that your ear can reliably differentiate. And the PS1000 does require current. 

But 'another level' means nothing. There is no description there. No reference. It means nothing. Neither does 'better'. What's better? And can you prove it? And, if two people listen to EXACTLY the same PS1000 and same music and same amp/DAC at the same volume, will they even report the same thing? Unless their report is a simple magical claim like: 'layers' and 'takes me so high' or 'another level', likely not. 

If you cut out all objective methods to test an amp/DAC and rely on platitudes, you evangelise nothing but hot air. My word. Your word. No proof. 'Better' has two definitions: a subjective one tied to personal claims and which suffers no objections, nor abides by any governing modus operandi, and which can conflict other subjective reports and remain 100% in tact; the other is qualitative, can be corroborated, and is subject to opinion in spite of and in reaction to the facts.
 
So, it is perfectly fine to enjoy an expensive DAC or amp with the PS1000. I listen almost exclusively to it through a Lynx HILO and LinnenberG Maestro. I love the combination. But I'd be a damned fool to argue that the pair is objectively 'better' than the Grace m9XX, no matter how much I prefer using the combo.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm telling you that IMO/IME there is a significant difference in sound quality with my gear other than the Magni/Modi combo for the Grados I mentioned, thats all. 

 I even said that the Grados sound good out of anything sufficient enough to drive them like the M/M combo.
 
 
Would you rather listen to your PS1K with the 02 rather than your Lynx HILO and LinnenberG Maestro? Probably not, even though it is sufficient enough to drive them, right?

 

[Currawong]

Take it to PMs guys.

 

[shigzeo]

The good news is that we at least seem to be talking about a headphone that most of are fans of. 

 

[up late]

Yes!  Something like the Headamp GSX-Mk2 will make the PS1000e sing.
The 50mm Grados scale beautifully with better source and amplification.
The other series are great with just an iPhone but may not reveal more with TOL gear.

dsavitsk is a respected head-fi'er who is also the owner/designer of ecp audio. he knows a thing about building head-amps and grados. this is what he had to say about amplifying them:

"...grados do best with an amplifier that has an output impedance higher than 0. to my ear, anywhere from 6 to 15 ohms seems to do pretty well. tube amps, particularly coupled tube amps, often have an output impedance in this range which is why the combination often works well. there are very few solid state amps that this is the case for as they tend to have a feedback loop that lowers the impedance."

and

"...the blanket statement that the lower zout is always better is not true in all cases. with grados in particular a too low zout seems to make them sound harsh and lacking in bass."

according to dsavitsk, the mapletree ear has quite a high zout which after it is reduced by its output transformer, results in an output impedance in the 10 to 15 ohm range making it an ideal match with grados.

so the humble mapletree ear tube amp is looking more likely to make the ps1000e sing sweetly than the awesome and considerably more expensive gsx-mk2 solid state amp. like shigzeo was saying, price doesn't necessarily equate with performance, and it is no indicator of synergy between audio components. the synergy between mapletree amps and grado cans is legendary as we know.

 

[MacedonianHero]

dsavitsk is a respected head-fi'er who is also the owner/designer of ecp audio. he knows a thing about building head-amps and grados. this is what he had to say about amplifying them:

"...grados do best with an amplifier that has an output impedance higher than 0. to my ear, anywhere from 6 to 15 ohms seems to do pretty well. tube amps, particularly coupled tube amps, often have an output impedance in this range which is why the combination often works well. there are very few solid state amps that this is the case for as they tend to have a feedback loop that lowers the impedance."

and

"...the blanket statement that the lower zout is always better is not true in all cases. with grados in particular a too low zout seems to make them sound harsh and lacking in bass."

according to dsavitsk, the mapletree ear has quite a high zout which after it is reduced by its output transformer, results in an output impedance in the 10 to 15 ohm range making it an ideal match with grados.

so the humble mapletree ear tube amp is looking more likely to make the ps1000e sing sweetly than the awesome and considerably more expensive gsx-mk2 solid state amp. like shigzeo was saying, price doesn't necessarily equate with performance, and it is no indicator of synergy between audio components. the synergy between mapletree amps and grado cans is legendary as we know.

Agreed that the Mapletree amp is spectacular with Grados (I owned it for several years), but it never gave me the sound stage accuracy, detail retreival and transparency of the GS-X MK2. But for someone on a budget for an amp for their Grado for the $700 price range, I can't think of another amp to recommend over the Mapletree. It sings sweetly with Grados, but at the expense of tactility, detail retrieval and transparency in a direct comparison.

 

[up late]

i'd be interested in comparing both amps with a ps1000(e) to see if i agree with you but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon

 

[MacedonianHero]

At times, I still wish I didn't sell my Mapltree amp. They are very underrated around here and often overlooked.

I am trying to get a loaner of the new Sugarmaple OD300 for a review. They are only an hour or so away from me and this amplifier looks very intriguing.

 

[whirlwind]

At times, I still wish I didn't sell my Mapltree amp. They are very underrated around here and often overlooked.

I am trying to get a loaner of the new Sugarmaple OD300 for a review. They are only an hour or so away from me and this amplifier looks very intriguing.

I just recently sold my MadEar amp, and it was pretty hard to let it go.

 

[BobG55]

At times, I still wish I didn't sell my Mapltree amp. They are very underrated around here and often overlooked.

I am trying to get a loaner of the new Sugarmaple OD300 for a review. They are only an hour or so away from me and this amplifier looks very intriguing.

I bought the other Sugarmaple model the SideWinder.  It's excellent.  I read one of your tube recommendations somewhere MacedonianHero, can't quite remember which thread/post, the Sylvania triple mica gray plate 5751 but I haven't been able to find one yet.  I've ordered a pair of back tubes & 4 single tubes : Raytheon JAN 5751 Windmill Getter (which I had with the MAD ear+ HD), RCA JRC 5751 WA VACUUM TUBE BLACK PLATE SQUARE GETTER TRIPLE MICA (couldn't find the GE one), GE JG-5751WA/12AX7 NEW Tube 2-Hole Short BLACK PLATES Triple Mica "O" Gtr 1953, 12AX7 Telefunken ECC83 / ECC 83 / 12AX7 Audio Tube, Smooth Plate & (2)/1961-65 USA Amperex PQ-7308 (E188CC) tubes.  I just love the sound of this amp even with the stock tubes which is what I presently have.  My 3 Grados (GS1Ke, PS500e & SR325) all sound as if this amp was made for them.  Very clear sound but musical with excellent depth & very good balance.  Good synergy with the HD6X0s but a tad darker than the Grados.  I've been looking at the OD300 also.  Later on in the year or early next year I will probably give in & get one.  So far I've only come across one Head-fi member who owns one.  I think I found that out in the same thread in which you recommended the Sylvania tube but I'm not sure.  Also I believe the member wrote that he was waiting for the OD300 & since I was focusing on tubes that night I didn't search for his impressions if he posted any on later posts.

 

[BobG55]

 

At times, I still wish I didn't sell my Mapltree amp. They are very underrated around here and often overlooked.

I am trying to get a loaner of the new Sugarmaple OD300 for a review. They are only an hour or so away from me and this amplifier looks very intriguing.

I just recently sold my MadEar amp, and it was pretty hard to let it go.

Shame on you Whirlwind. (although I did also .... 

.)

 

[JopharVorin]

   
The drivers in the SR80 are 44mm drivers and the PS1000e have 50mm drivers.
You can take off the cups and measure them to see this.

Latest ''e'' series are all 50mm. 44mm where the 'i'' and I believe some early ''e''.
 
 
 

   
Wow!, it looks like you really got your hands full here Jophar! Don't worry, Im a helpfull person, so, let me see if I can throw some gaz on this nice little fire you got going.

 
I'm just kidding, seriously though, just to be clear, the reason why th PS1k are referred to as hybrid, is because it's earcups are made of both, wood, and metal alloy.
 
I agree that the different earpads can drastically change the sound of Grado hadphones. In my opinion, this is a great advantage, because it's quick, easy relatively inexpensive, and totally reversible.
 
That being said, I seriously doubt that the SR80e and the PS1k sound alike, when they're both wearing the same earpads.
 
I have to admit, you got me curious, because to be a professionnal musician, you have to have a very good ear, so I'm willing to give his a try.
 
I'll use the S-cush, then the G-cush, and finally, no earpads at all.
 
I'll report back tomorrow  

 
Yes please, let us know.
About the ''hybrid'' thing, I'm a realist, calling these ''hybrid'' makes them like something special, which is not, hybrid is in my mind combined technologies like hybrid cars or hybrid amplifiers, vacuum tubes & transistors, or combined materials in a molecular level, which are all expensive stuff.
 You can these are ''hybrid'' if you like but please accept that everything around you is ''hybrid'' in that same sense, even your shoes are ''hybrid'' made of leather/rubber/cotton/nylon.....
Wouldn't you laugh if a pair of shoes sell for 400$ beacuse they are advertised as ''hybrid'' ?
 

 
[H]ow can you say that an entry level amp/source won't fully drive the PS1000, or that what won't perfectly drive the SR80 won't perfectly drive the PS1000? This is utter bullocks. The PS1000 sounds great, and is driven wonderfully by loads and loads of gear from $ to $$$.

[Edit] removed tautologous 'I must say'.

 
Agreed and agreed, the O2 is a well proven design able to drive to their full potential the easy to drive anyway ps1000.
 

  I don't understand the question here. Try them without any pads at all?

 
The point of the all the different cushions is to hear how close or far away they are from your ears and how that affects the bass response and highs. What I fail to understand here is that how can you say the 80e has the same drivers as the PS1ke? It's a difference of 20-20 Hz to 5-50 Hz. While we can't hear beyond 20 Hz, the expanded response on headphones offers a different representation of the music. The wider it is the closer to an accurate presentation of the artist. Look at the new Sennheiser Orpheus, 5-100 Hz; the impressions I've read say they have never been any closer to the artist's intention than listening with those.
 
One thing that I would like to know is, what all are you listening to? Consider the source of you music. The better the source, the closer you are to the music. Do you listen mostly to classical?

 
Where are you pulling these 5Hz-50kHz PS1k frequency response data from?
The manufacturers website?
This is crap, exaggerated marketing claims to justify their higher price, frequency response drops like a stone after 9-10kHz and it's down 30db or so at 17-18kHz.
Even the Sennheiser HD800, a headphone with some serious R&D behind them are advertised as 14Hz-44kHz at -3db(!!!!) where in reality they are -20db or so at 20kHz and -30db at 24kHz, as I said, ''marketing''.