[MacedonianHero]

 
[H]ow can you say that an entry level amp/source won't fully drive the PS1000, or that what won't perfectly drive the SR80 won't perfectly drive the PS1000? This is utter bullocks. The PS1000 sounds great, and is driven wonderfully by loads and loads of gear from $ to $$$.

[Edit] removed tautologous 'I must say'.

 
Re-read it. Can entry level gear make the PS1000s/SR80s sound good...sure...does it sound better on better gear...yes, and that's where the differences between these headphones become more apparent. But entry gear won't "perfectly" get the most out them, no matter what you say or how you say it (and I'm referring to amp/dac/source). Plus your tone is utter bullocks. 

 

 

[shigzeo]

   
Re-read it. Can entry level gear make the PS1000s/SR80s sound good...sure...does it sound better on better gear...yes, and that's where the differences between these headphones become more apparent. But entry gear won't "perfectly" get the most out them, no matter what you say or how you say it (and I'm referring to amp/dac/source). Plus your tone is utter bullocks. 

 

Then prove it.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Then prove it.

They are my experiences and I happen to have them right here and often play around with them; through my iPhone, iPod Classic, Mojo, AK240SS, Hugo TT, etc. I see you don't have them...so can I ask if you've even heard them? And we all know meets are very limited and not the most reliable.

See that's what we do here and we should try to do it in a respectful manner.

 

[joseph69]

I hear how well all of my Grados can sound out of my different set ups, but they're are significant differences between my amp/DACs…for sure.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I hear how well all of my Grados can sound out of my different set ups, but they're are significant differences between my amp/DACs…for sure.

Thanks Joseph, pretty much my experiences. But one advantages with Grado is that unlike say the hd800s, they can still sounds quite good from more basic setups. But the higher models do pull further ahead as the setup improves.

 

[joseph69]

Thanks Joseph, pretty much my experiences. But one advantages with Grado is that unlike say the hd800s, they can still sounds quite good from more basic setups. But the higher models do pull further ahead as the setup improves. 

They most definitely do. 

 

[shigzeo]

They are my experiences and I happen to have them right here and often play around with them; through my iPhone, iPod Classic, Mojo, AK240SS, Hugo TT, etc. I see you don't have them...so can I ask if you've even heard them? And we all know meets are very limited and not the most reliable.

See that's what we do here and we should try to do it in a respectful manner.

So, anecdotal evidence is the accepted norm, then? I don't doubt that something may sound 'better' to you, but there is absolutely no objective proof of that. What may sound better to you will not sound better to another. And I'm sorry, but I don't see the point of being respectful about the belief in magic. 

More expensive gear does not better performance equate. It can. But it definitely does not broadly correlate. Besides, we are all aware of valves and solid state, and NOS and R2R configurations, many of which actually perform sub-standard against industry measures, but by which people swear. 

'Sounds better' is, in 99% of cases, nothing more than subjective opinion. Any amp that has enough current to drive a headphone to the level at which you listen and do it with low distortion will sound best. You may like the distortion, you may even like frequency fall offs, or ramped IMD, BTW, which the AK240 is ought to do, but that doesn't make it 'better'. It makes it more in tune with your preferences. 

The PS1000 is no different: if it is being fed enough current at the right voltage level, that's all it needs. DACs follow similar rules. And I agree, not every good measuring DAC I actually like the sound of. But that means nothing regarding sound quality. 

The PS1000 isn't a hard to drive headphone. A lot of gear is more than up to push it to perfection.

 

[MacedonianHero]

So, anecdotal evidence is the accepted norm, then? I don't doubt that something may sound 'better' to you, but there is absolutely no objective proof of that. What may sound better to you will not sound better to another. And I'm sorry, but I don't see the point of being respectful about the belief in magic. 


More expensive gear does not better performance equate. It can. But it definitely does not broadly correlate. Besides, we are all aware of valves and solid state, and NOS and R2R configurations, many of which actually perform sub-standard against industry measures, but by which people swear. 


'Sounds better' is, in 99% of cases, nothing more than subjective opinion. Any amp that has enough current to drive a headphone to the level at which you listen and do it with low distortion will sound best. You may like the distortion, you may even like frequency fall offs, or ramped IMD, BTW, which the AK240 is ought to do, but that doesn't make it 'better'. It makes it more in tune with your preferences. 


The PS1000 is no different: if it is being fed enough current at the right voltage level, that's all it needs. DACs follow similar rules. And I agree, not every good measuring DAC I actually like the sound of. But that means nothing regarding sound quality. 


The PS1000 isn't a hard to drive headphone. A lot of gear is more than up to push it to perfection.

And there we have it. A general diatribe from someone with no first hand experiences. Thanks for coming out. Yes, I'm sure your O2 amp is the best and anything else is just overrated and don't bother trying anything else.

Where did I state more expensive is always better? If you read any of my posts, you'd see that I often have recommend cheaper gear.

 

[up late]

looks like he's got some first hand experience to me

 

[MacedonianHero]

looks like he's got some first hand experience to me

Not to me.

 

[shigzeo]

And there we have it. A general diatribe from someone with no first hand experiences. Thanks for coming out. Yes, I'm sure your O2 amp is the best and anything else is just overrated and don't bother trying anything else.

And where do you get the impression that I own an O2 amp? Or that I don't own a PS1000?

Edit: Or, I should add, that 'first hand' experience tells us anything? I have read dozens, if not hundreds of reports about amps and DACs that mention 'bump in the bass' or 'really big mids' or other such drivel, which not only was falsified by measurements, but which contradicted other reports by people using the same gear. Please tell me how anecdotal evidence counts unless it is to justify a belief in magic?

 

[krud484]

Listen to all of them without pads at all, how ''different'' or ''alike'' they sound?  
 
I have maybe 40-50 hours on them, most of their ''transformation'' happened during the first 4-5 hours which was clearly apparent.
 
Exactly my point.
The thing is, I believe these are way overpriced and it's a bit of a surprise to me that people buy these 1800$ headphones with the same drivers as in a 80$ pair of headphones and then praise about them.
You can't throw a Skoda engine in a RS8 chassis and call it a supercar.
On the other hand, why not, the ''demonstrated'' shiny pair of ''hybrid'' cups often followed by the statement of it's price tag is impressive as is a RS8 with a Skoda engine cruising 10 miles/hour because that's all it can do.
I guess It's the human nature to defend the choices made and money spend and make a laugh of anyone else which thinks otherwise, I honestly get it, the ''kings new clothes''.

I don't understand the question here. Try them without any pads at all?

 
The point of the all the different cushions is to hear how close or far away they are from your ears and how that affects the bass response and highs. What I fail to understand here is that how can you say the 80e has the same drivers as the PS1ke? It's a difference of 20-20 Hz to 5-50 Hz. While we can't hear beyond 20 Hz, the expanded response on headphones offers a different representation of the music. The wider it is the closer to an accurate presentation of the artist. Look at the new Sennheiser Orpheus, 5-100 Hz; the impressions I've read say they have never been any closer to the artist's intention than listening with those.
 
One thing that I would like to know is, what all are you listening to? Consider the source of you music. The better the source, the closer you are to the music. Do you listen mostly to classical?

 

[MacedonianHero]

And where do you get the impression that I own an O2 amp? Or that I don't own a PS1000?


Edit: Or, I should add, that 'first hand' experience tells us anything? I have read dozens, if not hundreds of reports about amps and DACs that mention 'bump in the bass' or 'really big mids' or other such drivel, which not only was falsified by measurements, but which contradicted other reports by people using the same gear. Please tell me how anecdotal evidence counts unless it is to justify a belief in magic?

Your post was very much in the O2 vain that we all have come to know and love. And that's what we do, share our first hand experiences. What you're looking for is the Science section I believe. :rolleyes:

 

[joseph69]

  The PS1000 is no different: if it is being fed enough current at the right voltage level, that's all it needs. DACs follow similar rules.

My GS-1/WA6 paired with my PWDll pushes my 325is/RS1i/GH-1/PS1Ke to another level of listening compared to my Schiit Magni/Modi combo which is sufficient enough to drive any Grados. I do find my 80i to benefit the least from my experience with the former amps/DAC which is why I didn't include them, but they still do benefit.

 

[shigzeo]

Your post was very much in the O2 vain that we all have come to know and love. And that's what we do, share our first hand experiences. What you're looking for is the Science section I believe.

[edit: Really? You're going to commit the logical fallacy of poison pot (referring to the O2 to cut down my argument)?]

No I am not looking for the Science section. I am directly responding to your misleading post. I am responding to your assumption that I don't own the PS1000, that I own an O2, and that the PS1000 needs high-end gear or expensive gear to sound perfect. Again, there are myriad high end offerings that actually are unable to break the 16-bit barrier in terms of dynamic range, of current to voltage ratio, to noise levels, and on and on. 

Price has almost nothing to do with it. The making of amps and DACs is a purely mathematical operation. If you are aiming for more distortion, you adjust your part list to include parts that meet that mathematical need. As an engineer, I expect you are aware of this. 

There are cheap amps/DACs that perform admirably and which can't be outdone by more expensive ones. There are wonderful high-end amps/DACs that are made beautifully and are wonders to use, but whose performance is a shambles. There are high end amps/DACs that perform admirably. Price has almost no bearing on how well a headphone is driven.