Orthodynamic Roundup
May 20, 2011 at 7:38 PM Post #17,206 of 27,161
Ok so playing with my SFIphones, I have some issue. What I seem to be missing is that High end sparkle and I guess the separation in the mid range (instruments seem to run together) I get better results by reducing the eq in the bass section. Anyone know a good damping method to help bring out the highes naturally?
 
May 20, 2011 at 8:01 PM Post #17,207 of 27,161
I used two layers of this: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=heater+vent+filters&hl=en&client=opera&hs=OmF&rls=en&channel=suggest&prmd=ivns&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17402831498601557745&sa=X&ei=iP_WTerlIYfV0QH6-pTPBw&ved=0CHAQ8wIwAA&biw=1731&bih=983#
 
 
then I cut out a bit of this breathable spandex material that was to be discarded, sounds much like a DBA-02 but with k701 soundstage now. Also to achieve a bit more treble, I used the velor pads from a broken Razer Carcharias headset. 
 
Hope that helps!
---
Anyone see my question on the last page?
 
May 20, 2011 at 8:15 PM Post #17,208 of 27,161
I had good results closing some of the holes on the back of the drivers of my hp1 with microporous tape. I guess the sfi will work the same. My explanation of this is that the efficiency is reduced inversely respect the frequency and the result is a rebalancing of the frequency response. The more holes you close the less bass you comparatively get bringing the highs up. If you close all holes you get almost no lf and it will sound like a tweeter. You can use a double layer of tape to fine tune. And you can do it with the drivers on the baffle without closing the cups.
 
For the mids problem I would first try stoppipng all vibrations of the cups with bluetac.
 
A
 
Quote:
Ok so playing with my SFIphones, I have some issue. What I seem to be missing is that High end sparkle and I guess the separation in the mid range (instruments seem to run together) I get better results by reducing the eq in the bass section. Anyone know a good damping method to help bring out the highes naturally?



 
 
May 20, 2011 at 8:19 PM Post #17,209 of 27,161
Ill give that a shot, I have a pair or orcas so I can try the pads and see how they sound. The Stanton pads just seal sooooo well. Thanks for the info Sulvaat!
 
My next plan was to start covering the holes one by one, and note the results, But Im sure the cup could use a bit of reinforcing. Thanks Antistase!
 
May 20, 2011 at 9:33 PM Post #17,211 of 27,161
DL1 drivers construction tolerances... Wualta, I'm not sure if you had a close look at them. You will lough loud at the standard. Cheap as it can get, all lousy and bendable plastic. There is nothing precise there.  ... Simply the design is right and simple in first place. Best example of great engineering.
 
I don't think you've read my earlier paens to the ID1 ( = "DL1"?), not that I blame you. The ID1 is sui generis, off by itself, a rare boid, a kind of hybrid ortho-ribbon. All bets (and generalizations) are off. But you're right, I've only had the chance to hear one ID1, one that had been restored and slightly modded by Smeggy, and though I didn't disassemble his ID1, I'm pretty certain, as I've said before, the only precision part in the ID1 is the diaphragm.
 
The question becomes: why didn't anyone, including Wharfedale, ever follow in the ID1's design footsteps? The low sensitivity, maybe. Smeggy's headphone also had a strong narrowband resonance in the midbass, but again, it was in the process of being modified. Your guess is as good as mine.
 
Now... why LCD2 are so expensive and heavy then?!
 
Because they, and everyone else, have decided not to go with the ortho-ribbon design. High sensitivity needs powerful magnets and powerful magnets need a strong, rigid magnetic structure to keep the driver from flying apart. Big diaphragms with a chance at some air damping (like a 'stat) mean big structures, so even more weight. Then the woodiphiles want their wood on top of that. The result is a big serious heavy 'phone. The idea was to get enough sensitivity to allow use with today's headphone outputs. Remember too that the Audeze 'phone is sold in tiny numbers, which drives up unit cost. All the hours they spent tinkering and tuning the thing is reflected in the price as well.
 
 
For a pair of SFIphones I really would prefer a closed schema as I want to use it at the office. But I tried Ludo's search engine. The references to sfi are too many and only few are related to specific construction and results. It is close to impossible, for example, to build a full list of fosterphones used with opinion about their impact.
 
Don't forget, many of those efforts were experimental and thus unfinished. Rather than trying to compile the early information, start in Ludo's search engine with <smeggy> and <sfi> and you can go on from there. We've learned so much about the rest of the headphone and how it works as a system since the days when we discovered the SFI driver that it's probably best that you start fresh. Just don't have a tiny driver trying to drive a huge empty earcup all by itself and you'll do okay. 
 
 
About the polyfill stuff, it is not available over here but I ordered some cashemire long fiber wool. 
 
Wool is used for everything in England, it seems. It has unique acoustic properties. Try to find a source of inexpensive thin wool felts of differing densities.

Sulvaat, since I don't have any of the portable gear you mention and you don't specify what your receiver is, it could be anything from the rattling of a loose component to clipping in your amps. Perhaps there's a short in your cabling. I hope someone here will recognize your problem and intuit an answer.

 
May 20, 2011 at 10:16 PM Post #17,212 of 27,161
Thanks for the replies guys. 
 
The receiver is a Sherwood RX-4103, it was a hand me down from my dad.  I ran the multimeter on its HP out and got about 190~200mW output. The D12 is about 120mW and the ST I think is like 80mW if I recall correctly.
 
I ran continuity test for the cable and all looks good, made sure everything is good and soldered on. When I put mine together, I laid the drivers in place and sealed them with some electronics super glue, then used the blutak to fill in the gaps and prevent vibration. After that I applied my damping materials I listed above. 
 
I think I know the problem is power related though, I got plenty of clean volume from my speaker terminal than the HP and it never distorted. 
 
Assuming it is power related, what is a good power level for planner phones? From my unconventional testing I think anything 1~3W say around 20V@120Ohm is good? I think I want to build an amp for these next. 
 
I learned so much about electricity in the making of these phones. It has been a great experience so far. Also learned that my Xonar ST's hp out is not super awesome like I thought it was.
 
 
 
May 20, 2011 at 10:43 PM Post #17,213 of 27,161
Im using an old Sony STR-V5 on mine, but it puts out around 3(ish)w on the hp out. I wish I could just go build an amp for these. Sulvaat I envy you on that
biggrin.gif
. I would love to build a Compact Tube Hybrid amp for mine. I'v got alot to learn befor that part of my DIY life starts.
 
Hope you iron out your power issues!
 
May 21, 2011 at 4:45 PM Post #17,214 of 27,161
Sulvaat, I've had receivers like your dad's Sherwood, and their headphone outputs are surprisingly bad. I haven't heard the Sherwood's, but I've long had the feeling that all the inexpensive 100w/ch stereo receivers that hit the market in the later '90s all came from the same factory or couple of factories. A lot of the  multichannel AV receivers of the time likewise, with similar headphone jack results. As you pointed out, you'll get better results from the speaker outs and a proper headphone coupler (not just the simple series dropping resistors), but I'm thinking you'll do well to DIY a chunky little amp with some grunt. Or get a good integrated amp from the early '80s. Or heck, a Sony STR-V5, a beautiful receiver from the '70s. Sounds like you've squared away the mechanical-vibration situation.
 
May 21, 2011 at 7:45 PM Post #17,216 of 27,161


Quote:
^Not sure what happened to the text above.  But I got some loose wool fiber and tried damping with it, and it didn't seem to do anything so I think you're right about finding felt instead.  I don't think the raw material is dense enough.  Maybe if it was compressed into a small space. 


If its anything like what im using then you need to stuff if fairly tight. I have a good softball size hunk compressed in each of my ear cups, but I have huge ear cups on my cans.
 
May 21, 2011 at 11:06 PM Post #17,217 of 27,161
Thankyou very much for this thread. I just managed to find a MINT set of Yamaha HP-1's for reasonable. I nearly wet my pants I couldn't believe it. 
eek.gif
Same place where I found a set of Sansui SS-20's ( also mint ) for $8 last week. What's next... Stax?!?!?!??
I think nobody in that neighborhood is a member of this forum and has no clue what they are seeing, or i'm getting lucky.
As far as i can tell these have been used very sporadically , if at all. There are no blemishes, scrapes or any other scuffs and even the earpads look new. You'd think they just came off the shelf ( enough rubbing it in yet
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)
I now understand what the fuss is about.  Compared to my 600ohm AKG 240 Monitors, these are above and beyond.  Unforunately I am in the middle of waiting for some new EL84 tubes on the Heathkit amp so I cannot do a side by side comparison on that yet, unless I want to hear a minor hum in one channel. Have to experience them with a Sony SS amp for now. These are incredible headphones. I'll need to search through this entire thread for more info. That should only take a few months right.
 
My question is : Are the suggested mods in here worthwhile?
And if so, which and what sort of priority to do them in? Re-cable first? I don't mind shipping them off and getting them done pro. I'd prefer to keep them stock and untouched, but if there will be a substantial difference then it would be worth consideration.
 

 
May 21, 2011 at 11:20 PM Post #17,218 of 27,161
Nice grab.
 
The foam damping in there will be pretty much useless by this point--basically just dust.  A good cleaning, plus some basic new damping materials, should really help.  The wikiphonia site is a really good resource for that.
 
May 22, 2011 at 4:05 AM Post #17,219 of 27,161
 
I'm thinking of using wool fibers to fill the cups rather than for damping the driver.The best I've found so far is fishfoam (copyright wualta I believe) but I think wool fibers have potential to better kill reflections inside the cups. Together with generous usage of blue tac to reduce mechanical vibrations that should give better resolution and microdynamic.
 
For damping I use different kind of felt qualities and thickness, from completely sinthetic to 100% wool, from  1 to 3 mm. 
 
Every headphoen is different and you need to tune each of them seconding your ear. This is the reason why I like this orthotuning so much. For example I hate the shouting in the mids, shrilling on the hf and muffling of the lf. 
 
My ID1 had a tendency to shout in the mid-highs. The cure was the most classical one: synthetic, thin, thick felt on the driver and a large square of thick fishfoam between the original felt on the back of the cup and the damping one. Smeggy, give it a go, you may like it.
My Hp1 instead required a good HF tuning with microporous tape, 100% wool thin and dense damping felt,  fishfoam to fill up the cups and 100% wool thick light felt to line the cups on top of a good slab of blue tac.
 
To all ID1 owners: the quality of the construction is so cheap that, with all disassembling and reassembling I did, I broke the plastic posts keeping the driver baffle in place in one of the cups. I'm using blue tac now to stick the baffle to the cup but I think we should find a permanent solution for this that. I never tested a closed wood enclosure for the ID1 drivers (e.g. the zibraphone not any longer available) but the way my ID1 sounds now is just right for me and I would tend to look for something semi-open.  Opinions/experiences about this that have not been reported in this thread already (yes I've done my homework already)
?
Also, did anybody tried a recable on ID1 and could provide opinion about the impact of it (these cans break all rules known to me so far so I don't give anything for granted).
 
A
 
Quote:
^Not sure what happened to the text above.  But I got some loose wool fiber and tried damping with it, and it didn't seem to do anything so I think you're right about finding felt instead.  I don't think the raw material is dense enough.  Maybe if it was compressed into a small space. 



 
 
May 22, 2011 at 4:41 AM Post #17,220 of 27,161


Quote:
 
My question is : Are the suggested mods in here worthwhile?


I personally found the modded HP1 in its stock housings a bit underwhelming and went a different path, follow the link in my sig for details.
 
 
 

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